B-52 Tail-gunner Recalls MiG Downing - Page 1

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Posted: 12/27/2010 7:45:02 PM EDT

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/62669/face-defense-b-52-tail-gunner-recalls-mig-downing

Face of Defense: B-52 Tail-gunner Recalls MiG Downing

The crew of the "Diamond Lil," a B-52D, tail number 55-083, took off
from Utapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield on Christmas Eve in 1972. The
crew's mission was to bomb the North Vietnamese railroad yards at Thai
Nguyen as part of Operation Linebacker II, which took place Dec. 18 to
29, 1972.

However, the Diamond Lil's crew faced enemy air power. A North
Vietnamese MiG-21 raced to intercept the B-52. The bomber's tail gunner,
Airman 1st Class Albert Moore, noticed the MiG's approach.

"I observed a target in my radar scope 8:30 o'clock, low at eight
miles," Moore wrote six days later in his statement of claim for enemy
aircraft destroyed. "I immediately notified the crew, and the 'bogie'
started closing rapidly. It stabilized at 4,000 yards, 6:30 o'clock. I
called the pilot for evasive action and the [electronic warfare officer]
for chaff and flares.

......

Moore's kill is one of only two confirmed kills by a B-52D in the
Vietnam War and the last confirmed kill by a tail gunner in wartime
using machine guns.

Posted: 12/27/2010 7:48:29 PM EDT

[#1]

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

Man... what did they have for tail mounts?

Posted: 12/27/2010 7:49:29 PM EDT

[#2]

Awesome.
I didn't even know B-52s have tail guns.

Posted: 12/27/2010 7:49:47 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

Man... what did they have for tail mounts?

4 .50 cal machine guns. The G model had the same tail armament, and the H model had one 20mm Vulcan cannon. That was later removed, so now, all H models have no gun in the back.

Posted: 12/27/2010 7:52:20 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

Man... what did they have for tail mounts?

4 .50 cal machine guns.

Ok... not quite as insane, but that's still some pretty long bursts!

Posted: 12/27/2010 7:52:31 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Awesome.
I didn't even know B-52s have tail guns.

They don't anymore.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 12/27/2010 7:57:41 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 12/27/2010 8:02:16 PM EDT

[#7]

B-52D tail gunner position

The quad .50's were replaced by a 20mm M61 gattling gun in the B-52H

and the guns and gunner position were eliminated in 1991.

ETA Wow you guys are fast, beat by a minute!

Posted: 12/27/2010 8:03:44 PM EDT

[#8]

First time I saw them testing one of the tail gun systems on one of our G models at Castle AFB, I was amazed how fast that thing moved to track targets.

Posted: 12/27/2010 8:15:15 PM EDT

[#9]

All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

Posted: 12/27/2010 8:21:50 PM EDT

[#10]

GLHX2112 you're right, I was too quick on the keyboard. It was the H models that went to the six barrel gattling gun.

Posted: 12/27/2010 8:26:14 PM EDT

[#11]

Those are the ugliest turrets I have ever seen but cool none the less.

Posted: 12/27/2010 8:46:44 PM EDT

[#12]

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

That is really close. I guess the MIG didn't have any air-to-air missiles. The Sidewider has a range like ~10 miles.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:00:50 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/B52_tail_turret.jpg

http://www.nachohat.org/top_end_2001/PIC00026.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/kilomuse/Story/insideD.jpg http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/spectre7w/2010%20Castle%20Open%20Cockpit%20%201/P5300079.jpg

That musta been some bitchin' parallax

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:02:39 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/B52_tail_turret.jpg

http://www.nachohat.org/top_end_2001/PIC00026.jpg

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/kilomuse/Story/insideD.jpg http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/spectre7w/2010%20Castle%20Open%20Cockpit%20%201/P5300079.jpg

That musta been some bitchin' parallax

minute of MIG

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:04:14 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

That is really close. I guess the MIG didn't have any air-to-air missiles. The Sidewider has a range like ~10 miles.

Yeah, but this is 40 years ago...missiles were dumb as shit and a missile kill was more luck than technology.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:05:08 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

Was that an ejection seat? It seems like that guy would be FUBAR if anything really happened

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:11:47 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

Was that an ejection seat? It seems like that guy would be FUBAR if anything really happened

If i remember correctly, Gunners on D models dropped out of the hatch behind their seat, old school style.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:18:58 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

Was that an ejection seat? It seems like that guy would be FUBAR if anything really happened

I don't believe the B-52A-F variants (with the gunner in the tail) had an ejection seat back there.

On that note, a PJ friend of mine saw one ditch in Vietnam. It was the B-52D that went down at Danang in '67. All the forward crew members died. The tail gunner, trapped in his position in the aircraft, survived thanks to rescue efforts of a crash crew with balls of steel in an 011 (as I've always heard it, they used the crash truck to knock the tail section free from the burning wreckage).

As an aside, being a 52 tail gunner was my dream job when I was a kid (granddad lived in the approach path of Carswell). They were long gone by the time I got to be that age.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:26:58 PM EDT

[#19]

Fuck LBJ and McNamara for their ROE that got so many of our brave Airmen and Aviator heroes shot down. I hope they are burning in Hell if there is one.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:28:32 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

That is really close. I guess the MIG didn't have any air-to-air missiles. The Sidewider has a range like ~10 miles.

Yeah, but this is 40 years ago...missiles were dumb as shit and a missile kill was more luck than technology.

Hmmm.... Accord to Wiki the USAF had the Sidewinder since 1956, the Commies didn't have a copy of it, since they stole almost everything else.

Wikipedia - AIM-9 Sidewinder

.
.
It has been said that the design goals for the original Sidewinder were to produce a reliable and effective missile with the "electronic complexity of a table model radio and the mechanical complexity of a washing machine"—goals which were well accomplished in the early missiles
.
.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:32:43 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

That is really close. I guess the MIG didn't have any air-to-air missiles. The Sidewider has a range like ~10 miles.

Yeah, but this is 40 years ago...missiles were dumb as shit and a missile kill was more luck than technology.

Hmmm.... Accord to Wiki the USAF had the Sidewinder since 1956, the Commies didn't have a copy of it, since they stole almost everything else.

Wikipedia - AIM-9 Sidewinder

.
.
It has been said that the design goals for the original Sidewinder were to produce a reliable and effective missile with the "electronic complexity of a table model radio and the mechanical complexity of a washing machine"—goals which were well accomplished in the early missiles
.
.

Ooppsss.... sorry I doubted your words. You were quite correct in your assessment.

Performance of the Sidewinder and the AIM-7 Sparrow was not as satisfactory as hoped and both the Navy and Air Force studied their performance of their aircrews, aircraft, weapons and training as well as supporting infrastructure.

Posted: 12/27/2010 9:55:19 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
B-52D tail gunner position

http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img/300-Boeing_B-52D_tail_turret.jpg

The quad .50's were replaced by a 20mm M61 gattling gun in the B-52H

http://www.air-and-space.com/19750316%20Davis-Monthan/75105%20B-52H%2061-0036%20left%20rear%20M61%20Vulcan%20gatling%20gun%20l.jpg

and the guns and gunner position were eliminated in 1991.

ETA Wow you guys are fast, beat by a minute!

What's the story with the airbrake looking item above the gunner's position in the second pic? Also, why are there rear view mirrors? Is the gunner seated facing forward in the M61 gun positions? The whole arrangement is very different from the quad .50 setup...

Posted: 12/27/2010 10:12:30 PM EDT

[#23]

I want to see one move or at least in action. Any videos of these ugly creatures?

Posted: 12/27/2010 10:23:20 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
B-52D tail gunner position

http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img/300-Boeing_B-52D_tail_turret.jpg

The quad .50's were replaced by a 20mm M61 gattling gun in the B-52H

http://www.air-and-space.com/19750316%20Davis-Monthan/75105%20B-52H%2061-0036%20left%20rear%20M61%20Vulcan%20gatling%20gun%20l.jpg

and the guns and gunner position were eliminated in 1991.

ETA Wow you guys are fast, beat by a minute!

What's the story with the airbrake looking item above the gunner's position in the second pic? Also, why are there rear view mirrors? Is the gunner seated facing forward in the M61 gun positions? The whole arrangement is very different from the quad .50 setup...

I can't answer your first question, but the "rear view mirrors" are something else. It looks like in the first, second and last photo's the gun positions you are seeing are not manned. The gunner had been moved up to the front office in those models. The turrets were radar directed so it didn't really matter where he sat.

Posted: 12/27/2010 10:47:02 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Fuck LBJ and McNamara for their ROE that got so many of our brave Airmen and Aviator heroes shot down. I hope they are burning in Hell if there is one.

I'm guessing He's still reading the charges against them. It would take a LONG time.

TC

Posted: 12/27/2010 11:27:51 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

B-52D tail gunner position

http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img/300-Boeing_B-52D_tail_turret.jpg

The quad .50's were replaced by a 20mm M61 gattling gun in the B-52H

http://www.air-and-space.com/19750316%20Davis-Monthan/75105%20B-52H%2061-0036%20left%20rear%20M61%20Vulcan%20gatling%20gun%20l.jpg

and the guns and gunner position were eliminated in 1991.

ETA Wow you guys are fast, beat by a minute!

What's the story with the airbrake looking item above the gunner's position in the second pic? Also, why are there rear view mirrors? Is the gunner seated facing forward in the M61 gun positions? The whole arrangement is very different from the quad .50 setup...

I can't answer your first question, but the "rear view mirrors" are something else. It looks like in the first, second and last photo's the gun positions you are seeing are not manned. The gunner had been moved up to the front office in those models. The turrets were radar directed so it didn't really matter where he sat.

The "air brake" is a top hatch for the gunner/maintenance, and the "rear view mirrors" are fairings covering microwave horn antennas used for fighter radar/missile radar detection and warning. A lot of the "bumps" on military aircraft are antenna fairings, and this B-52 has 8 rear facing horn antennas and at least 2 facing forward. The fairings on the side of the nose each house a microwave horn antenna and the fairings under the nose house various kinds of TV cameras/IR cameras.

Posted: 12/28/2010 1:42:18 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

That is really close. I guess the MIG didn't have any air-to-air missiles. The Sidewider has a range like ~10 miles.

There's a difference between stats and real world usage of missles. For example, a missle's motor burns for X amount of time. So if you're going head on, you could have a range of 20miles (distance to target when you launched) because the target is closing on the missle. In a tail chase against a high-speed target, like a Mig-21, that same missle's range might be only 3 miles. With the target flying away and the missle has to catch up, you have to be much closer to shoot so that the motor doesn't burn out before it gets there. The motor burns the same amount and the missle has the same flight time, but flight time is what it's all about. The 20mile/3mile range thing is from the original Sparrow Vs high-perfromance fighter aircraft. It would be different for a slower target, like a B-52, but the principle is still the same.

The Mig in this instance may have been outside of constraints for the Atoll, which was a copy of the early Sidewinder. They had a very narrow FOV to pick up IR. They also had alot of problems with the Sun, etc. and positioning may just not have been good. The Mig's radar and possibly even his commo may have been jammed at the time as well. With their Ground Controlled system, the Mig pilot may have been doing whatever procedure they have to do to shoot. Heck, he may have taken off without missles, since it was a bomber, and planned to deal with it with guns.

Posted: 12/28/2010 3:22:57 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
B-52D tail gunner position

The quad .50's were replaced by a 20mm M61 gattling gun in the B-52H
and the guns and gunner position were eliminated in 1991.

ETA Wow you guys are fast, beat by a minute!

What's the story with the airbrake looking item above the gunner's position in the second pic? Also, why are there rear view mirrors? Is the gunner seated facing forward in the M61 gun positions? The whole arrangement is very different from the quad .50 setup...

I can't answer your first question, but the "rear view mirrors" are something else. It looks like in the first, second and last photo's the gun positions you are seeing are not manned. The gunner had been moved up to the front office in those models. The turrets were radar directed so it didn't really matter where he sat.

The "air brake" is a top hatch for the gunner/maintenance, and the "rear view mirrors" are fairings covering microwave horn antennas used for fighter radar/missile radar detection and warning. A lot of the "bumps" on military aircraft are antenna fairings, and this B-52 has 8 rear facing horn antennas and at least 2 facing forward. The fairings on the side of the nose each house a microwave horn antenna and the fairings under the nose house various kinds of TV cameras/IR cameras.

The "air brake" is not a maintenance hatch. That is the door for the drag chute that is deployed to ease the load on the brakes. If you look around, you can find pictures of the BUFF with the drag chute deployed and see what I mean.

Posted: 12/28/2010 4:26:52 AM EDT

[#29]

My father worked on the tail-warning radar when he was at Westinghouse. I still have the mug from the program somewhere.

Posted: 12/28/2010 4:40:53 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

That is really close. I guess the MIG didn't have any air-to-air missiles. The Sidewider has a range like ~10 miles.

Sometimes too, the Migs would be "pacing" the bombers
and relaying speed and altitude to the radar operators on the ground
who were directing missiles at the cells.

Instead of a Mig attacking ONE bomber, they'd try and get one
as close to a cell (3 bombers) as they could and then use the
pilot to refine their targeting of all three B-52's with SA-2's.

Posted: 12/28/2010 4:42:27 AM EDT

[#31]

tag

Posted: 12/28/2010 4:42:53 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
First time I saw them testing one of the tail gun systems on one of our G models at Castle AFB, I was amazed how fast that thing moved to track targets.

I grew up near Castle AFB. I got pretty used to B52's flying around us. I lived in Atwater before moving here.

All that's left there now is the Air Museum. The rest of it's gone into private hands or is being used by the city. New base housing is now being used as a low cost retirement village and most of the old base housing got refurbed and sold to private owners.

Posted: 12/28/2010 5:47:01 AM EDT

[#33]

Twice I crawled through cobwebs to sit in the Tailgunner compartments of D & F model BUFFs.
Oh, to have had a Video Cam back in '82! The D had a Dec/72 /Hanoi & initials pencilled-in graffiti.
These are cherished memories.

I recall reading T.O.'s back in Tech School that showed the entire turret assembly dropped-away during a bail-out leaving the Gunner to only tumble-out of the back of the ACFT after it was jettisoned.

I also recall once reading about a Gunner losing COMM with the Guys in the pointy end of the Buff.
They started a steep dive to enter a low level ground hugging "Oil Burner Route" & He panicked & dumped the turret & bailed-out. He was demoted & fined for a "Dropped Object" & leaving His assigned post.

I also had dreams of being one of the exclusive club of "last of the Tail gunners", but I ended-up joining the USAF hoping to be a Crew Chief on BUFFs. They assigned Me to C-130's, & Boy, am I glad that's how it worked-out. A BUFF is a pain in the a$$ to work on, & You never get to ride along!

I was lucky to be assigned to Dyess Air force Patch as a MAC C/C, Where the 96th Bomb Wing operated first D & then H
Model BUFFS, so I got to watch them daily without having to be in SAC. I was sad when the D's went off to the Bone Yard & then the H's went away to make room for the B-1's.(They were as noisy as the D's were smoky.!)

I'd give about anything to once again experience the sights, sounds, & smells Of 5 BUFFs & 5 KC-135A's doing a black powder Cart Start on the Alert Pad. It's unforgettable.

The Ol' Crew Chief

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:04:54 AM EDT

[#34]

This is unbelievable comrades

Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:08:07 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

This is unbelievable comrades

Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:11:04 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

This is unbelievable comrades

Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

Maybe the MiG was flown by a Soviet or Warsaw Pact adviser as a gesture of support and solidarity for the spread of global socialism.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:11:04 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
This is unbelievable comrades
Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

Causing his glorious people's flying machine to fall in flaming pieces?

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:19:10 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Fuck LBJ and McNamara for their ROE that got so many of our brave Airmen and Aviator heroes shot down. I hope they are burning in Hell if there is one.

Frozen in the eight circle according to Niven and Pournell in "Escape From Hell", Tor Pbk ISBN: 978-0-7653-5540-9.

I prefered Inferno.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:21:56 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
This is unbelievable comrades
Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

This is correct, comrades.

Is very easy to lose consciousness when body parts are removed by .50 rounds.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:28:24 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

Was that an ejection seat? It seems like that guy would be FUBAR if anything really happened

I don't believe the B-52A-F variants (with the gunner in the tail) had an ejection seat back there.

On that note, a PJ friend of mine saw one ditch in Vietnam. It was the B-52D that went down at Danang in '67. All the forward crew members died. The tail gunner, trapped in his position in the aircraft, survived thanks to rescue efforts of a crash crew with balls of steel in an 011 (as I've always heard it, they used the crash truck to knock the tail section free from the burning wreckage).

As an aside, being a 52 tail gunner was my dream job when I was a kid (granddad lived in the approach path of Carswell). They were long gone by the time I got to be that age.

Granddad live in the Benbrook area by chance? My uncle lived there and B52's would be so low it looked like you could hit them with a thrown baseball.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:28:24 AM EDT

[#41]

I just so happen to know someone who happens to have the optics "Scope" out of the back of a B52. Optics by Ziess, 136# and about 4 feet long.. Hows that for a rifle scope..

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:31:09 AM EDT

[#42]

Isn't that the only incident in history?

Man that Mig Pilot must have gotten a lot of crap.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:33:29 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Isn't that the only incident in history?

Man that Mig Pilot must have gotten a lot of crap.

There are two BUFFs with kills.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:34:56 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

Was that an ejection seat? It seems like that guy would be FUBAR if anything really happened

I don't believe the B-52A-F variants (with the gunner in the tail) had an ejection seat back there.

On that note, a PJ friend of mine saw one ditch in Vietnam. It was the B-52D that went down at Danang in '67. All the forward crew members died. The tail gunner, trapped in his position in the aircraft, survived thanks to rescue efforts of a crash crew with balls of steel in an 011 (as I've always heard it, they used the crash truck to knock the tail section free from the burning wreckage).
http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=quote&b=1&f=5&t=1130603&r=26260106&page=1
As an aside, being a 52 tail gunner was my dream job when I was a kid (granddad lived in the approach path of Carswell). They were long gone by the time I got to be that age.

Granddad live in the Benbrook area by chance? My uncle lived there and B52's would be so low it looked like you could hit them with a thrown baseball.

River Oaks (north side of the base).

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:51:37 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Isn't that the only incident in history?

Man that Mig Pilot must have gotten a lot of crap.

Pretty sure he got deaded, no?

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:52:25 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Twice I crawled through cobwebs to sit in the Tailgunner compartments of D & F model BUFFs.
Oh, to have had a Video Cam back in '82! The D had a Dec/72 /Hanoi & initials pencilled-in graffiti.
These are cherished memories.

I recall reading T.O.'s back in Tech School that showed the entire turret assembly dropped-away during a bail-out leaving the Gunner to only tumble-out of the back of the ACFT after it was jettisoned.

I also recall once reading about a Gunner losing COMM with the Guys in the pointy end of the Buff.
They started a steep dive to enter a low level ground hugging "Oil Burner Route" & He panicked & dumped the turret & bailed-out. He was demoted & fined for a "Dropped Object" & leaving His assigned post.

I also had dreams of being one of the exclusive club of "last of the Tail gunners", but I ended-up joining the USAF hoping to be a Crew Chief on BUFFs. They assigned Me to C-130's, & Boy, am I glad that's how it worked-out. A BUFF is a pain in the a$$ to work on, & You never get to ride along!

I was lucky to be assigned to Dyess Air force Patch as a MAC C/C, Where the 96th Bomb Wing operated first D & then H
Model BUFFS, so I got to watch them daily without having to be in SAC. I was sad when the D's went off to the Bone Yard & then the H's went away to make room for the B-1's.(They were as noisy as the D's were smoky.!)

I'd give about anything to once again experience the sights, sounds, & smells Of 5 BUFFs & 5 KC-135A's doing a black powder Cart Start on the Alert Pad. It's unforgettable.

The Ol' Crew Chief

Castle AFB was my first base, and my introduction to the finer points of standing in front of a BUFF counting rivets. If I remember correctly, they also had the Boomer and Gunner schools there. I was told wash out rate was near 50% for both courses. I left Castle in 1985 and PCS'd to RAF Bentwaters.

1987 the Air Force decided they had too many AIC's in the Security Police career field, and around 45 of us were notified we were going to be getting the boot. I panicked and tried to find anything to cross train into that would keep me around for a few more years. At this time I started the paperwork for B-52 Gunner, but, at the last minute, I was able to extend my enlistment and get off the hit list. (I'm still trying to figure out how I got away with that ) God knows what would have happened if I made the cut and headed back to Castle for school. Of course they got rid of all the gunners in 1991. That would have sucked.

Posted: 12/28/2010 6:56:06 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Fuck LBJ and McNamara for their ROE that got so many of our brave Airmen and Aviator heroes shot down. I hope they are burning in Hell if there is one.

Frozen in the eight circle according to Niven and Pournell in "Escape From Hell", Tor Pbk ISBN: 978-0-7653-5540-9.

I prefered Inferno.

I just finished Escape From Hell a few days ago. I agree with you. Inferno was much better.

Posted: 12/28/2010 7:10:44 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
This is unbelievable comrades
Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

A couple of .50bmg slugs to the cockpit has a tendency of doing that

I really wish you would post more often! Always nice to hear from a russki with a sense of humor.

Posted: 12/28/2010 7:17:59 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
All of our G models at Castle had quad 50's. I thought only the H models had vulcan's?

Gunner climbing into D model gunners compartment

what the hell was that leaking in there he had something wet all over him by the time he got into position

Posted: 12/28/2010 7:18:59 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
This is unbelievable comrades
Vietnamise pilot more likely lost consciousness

A BUFF flying along at altitude is a stable gun platform. The MIG is struggling to catch-up while climbing.
The stream of bullets is traveling back towards the target, while any of the MIGs cannon shells would be traveling into a 600 MPH airflow, & a missile shot with the Atoll ( a cheap copy of Our Sidewinder) would be lucky to get through the defences of the BUFF.

Final score: BUFF 2, MIG 0.

Both kills were scored by an A1C & a S/SGT. USAF Enlisted Personnel FTW!!!

The Ol' Crew Chief

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - B-52 Tail-gunner Recalls MiG Downing (Page 1 of 3)

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Face of Defense: B-52 Tail-gunner Recalls MiG Downing

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