I am in the middle of building a 6.5Grendel/264LBC right now as my first AR15. But for as long as I can remember I have wanted to clone one of the carbines used in Operation Gothic Serpent( aka: Black Hawk Down). In particular I wanted to do one of the suppressed 727 used. I know I will probably never be able to make an exact clone. But I want to get as close as possible. Since Ops inc doesn't make suppressors anymore I have to go to AE suppressors. The two suppressors I would most likely use are their AE30 and AEM5. Just add, the AE30 is the same thing as the original OPS inc 3rd model used, just it is a .30 caliber suppressor instead of a .22 caliber suppresser. The AEM5 the exact same thing as a OPS inc 12th model suppressor used on the MK12 mod1. For the people that don't know.

So, if I get the AE30, what barrel length would I need to use in a carbine length gas system to have it butt up against the FSB? What barrel length would I need to for a Mid-length gas system to get the same affect?

If I can only get the AEM5, what barrel length would get me closest to the FSB with the suppressor for a Carbine length gas system, and which barrel length for a mid-length gas system?

Here are two photos for reference. One from real life borrowed from the 1993 Somalia car15 thread , one from the movie Black Hawk Down.

There has to be one person that know something?

Here's a link to ADCO's website about fitment of the AE Suppressors. Hope this helps.

ADCO Firearms

Edited after seeing above post.

Double check with Griffin Armament to see if a 11.5" has enough barrel for their SPR suppressor. They do a great job explaining it on YouTube too and how it compares to other indexing types.

https://youtu.be/iVxQS_uMGks

My guess for carbine length 11.5" or a cut down 14.5" if you want mid length. The 14.5" with a pinned/welded Griffin Armament break should save you another $200 NFA Tax.

Hope that helps.

Thanks, but I don't want to use the Griffin armament SPR I want to use the AE suppressors AE30 so it would be as close as possible. Also the link you provided doesn't work for me. But thank you for trying to help. Maybe I should contact Griffin armament to see it they would know. Because the owner of Griffin armament use to be an active duty sniper so he my have see what I am asking about.

You know what could help. Could anyone with a AR15 that has a FSB with either a carbine or Mid-length gas system post measurements from the end of the barrel to the front of the FSB, include the barrel length please(And picture if you have them). I could most likely work back from there after I get the barrel profile detentions from AE Suppressors. Does anyone also know how far back the Griffin armament SPR and RSTS suppressor reflex over the barrel? Thank you for your help.

Here's a 12.5" w/ 12th Model (not mine).


You won't be able to fit a 12th model on a barrel shorter than that, AFAIK.

IIRC, the Ops cans from that era were direct thread cans (like the Ops 3rd model).

Thank you so much. I am actually going to either use the AE suppressors AE30 or the AEM5. Which are OPS inc cans. The AE30 is a OPS inc 3rd model suppressor. Which is the one that was used on the 727 carbines back then. The AEM5 is a OPS inc 12th model suppressor. The one that is used on the MK12 mod 0 and 1. I thought I wrote that in my original post. For those that didn't know, the guys that formed AE suppressors were the guys that made the suppressors for OPS inc before the old man died and the company went belly up.

Also seeing this picture, I wonder what a OPS inc 3rd model or AE suppressors AE30 would look like on a normal 16 inch barrel with a mid-length gas system and a standard FSB?

I know what Ops and AE cans are

My understanding is that used the 3rd model, which is available in both 5.56 and .30. I am not aware of them using it in .30, but perhaps they did.

Why not go with the AE Model 22, which is the 5.56 version of the direct thread 3rd model?

Thank you for telling me. The main reason is because, well I just I didn't know the model 22 was a 22 caliber 3rd model suppressor. I thought the AE30 was the only 3rd model suppressor they made. Another reason I was leaning towards the AE30 over the AEM5 or now the AE22 is it is a 30 caliber suppressor, while I know they didn't use the  30 caliber suppressors on the suppressed 727 carbines, I could use the AE30 on the 6.5Grendel/264LBC that I am building now. Then on the Gothic Serpent 727 clone. And finally I could also use it on the Sig MCX in 300blk when I get one.

I have tailored FSB rifles with Ops/AE suppressors many times. Here's how it goes..

ANY barrel can be cut down to the 'proper' length and butt up against the FSB with a small custom collar is the barrel is long enough to start out with. A 12.5" carbine should be good enough for ADCO to cut it down and profile properly for you.

If you DON'T want to have any barrel work done...

If you want to use any NON-AEM5/12th Model spacing...

7.5" + shoulder LPGB combo (no fsb)
10.5" + shoulder LPGB combo (no fsb)
11.5" and higher .gov profile or M4 profile barrel's (12.5", 14.5", 16") + M4 adaptor collar (with FSB but NO BAYO LUG)

The barrel without any work that will get you closest to the FSB with the non-AEM5 spacing (all other models besides the AEM5 such as AEM2/AEM3, etc) will work.

If you want to use an AEM5 you will need the M4 AEM5 collar but this will ONLY work on a 12.5" M4 profile or .gov profile barrel and will be close to the FSB as well (not sure on bayo lug clearance you may need to grind it down)

if you want to use an AEM5 butting up against the FSB you will need a custom cut barrel.

Thank you Mattyvac. That  was very through and helpful. But I am most likely going to go with the AE30 suppressor so I can kill two birds with one stone and use the same suppressor on the 264LBC rifle I am building right now, and a Sig MCX in 300 blackout  I want to get latter down the road. The only problem is I don't know the  barrel dimensions required for the AE30. I sent an email to AE suppressor them self to see what they say. But I wont hold my breath. I have never had AE suppressors respond back to any of my emails. Does anyone have a different email for them then the one they list on their site? At least Blackhole Weaponry is willing to custom make any barrel I need. So once I get all the information I need I will post it up so incase anyone else want to follow suit they will have an easier time than me.

Thank you! You are awesome! Every time I would try to download that picture it never shows up. Now it has been a long time since I have used/seen OPS inc suppressor attached, especially a 3rd model. Does the suppressor reflex all the way back to 3.42 inches or does it stop at 2.50 inches? For some reason I remember them going back farther.

It stops at the shoulder, which is ~2.5". it may go 2.6 or so...

I would not recommend an AE30 on a carbine. It is huge and heavy! It's larger than the 12th model as well.

A 16th model will fit on an 11.5'' barrel if you shave off the bayonet lug and use the short collar.  

This is my 16th model on my 12.5'' gun for reference. I know the 12th model goes a little further back, but the 16th shares the same mount as all the other ops cans.