Posted: 1/13/2009 1:57:03 PM EDT
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I'm a complete "tactical" pistol novice, and I wonder if I should start with a couple hours of private school instruction (just on drawstroke/presentation)?
I want to start with the 100% proper drawstroke, and need the proper instruction to do that correctly. Still deciding on carry technique, and I guess I need that figured out first. I want to learn the 100% correct Plainclothes/CCW drawstroke, with my own weapon(s) and proper holster. I'm thinking strong side back right waistline. I want to start by practicing the right stuff. (2 pistols, KAHR P45, and S&W442) I want to get educated, but funds are limited. It's time to start the proper "training" and I'm wondering if IDPA is a good starting point, or a school (or both). From hunting with a handgun (small game) I do have solid handgun handling skills but have never been exposed to SD/tactical shooting. And Arizona ain't getting any safer! I worry about my wife and myself. So, where's the best initial training in proper muscle memory? Introductory level Defensive Pistol at IDPA? Or start with a good school ($1385+ but worth it!)? Or would I be okay with a couple hours of private school instruction just on drawstroke to start? |
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So, where's the best initial training in proper muscle memory? Introductory level Defensive Pistol at IDPA? Or start with a good school ($1385+ but worth it!)? Or would I be okay with a couple hours of private school instruction just on drawstroke to start?
Go to school. Lots of options in AZ. Even gunsite is offering "intro level" classes. |
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Thanks TonyF!
That's what I'm thinking, but can't afford the BIG $$$ right now, but would like to do SOMETHING to get started. So I was thinking about a couple hours private instruction of just getting started with the (slow motion / technique) Drawstroke/presentation from concealment location. Good idea? |
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Quoted:
Thanks TonyF! That's what I'm thinking, but can't afford the BIG $$$ right now, but would like to do SOMETHING to get started. So I was thinking about a couple hours private instruction of just getting started with the (slow motion / technique) Drawstroke/presentation from concealment location. Good idea? Where do you live in AZ? Glendale COmmuniy College offers several levels of firearms training for about $115 for a 2 day class. It's part of their Administration of justice program. |
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Quoted:
So, where's the best initial training in proper muscle memory? Introductory level Defensive Pistol at IDPA? Or start with a good school ($1385+ but worth it!)? Or would I be okay with a couple hours of private school instruction just on drawstroke to start?
Go to school. Lots of options in AZ. Even gunsite is offering "intro level" classes. this save your cash, invest in a good class ASAP (check for reviews online, on forums, and from those who have been to that class)...only invest in a school that provides good, quality instruction no sense in "learning" "bad" habits only to have to unlearn it at a class... that said h/w, i began w/ general shooting: simply practicing getting my shots on target (fundamentals of shooting), then went into draw stroke, reloads, malf. drills, etc on my own; i then went to IDPA/IPSC matches––you DO 'learn' lots of things, mostly through watching and asking questions eventually, i took training classes; for me, it ended up 'tweeking' what i already was doing if i had to do it all over again, i'd start at the classes, and build up from there––saves time and money the best thing you can do now imo: learn your safety (the 4 rules of gun handling); learn your fundamentals; learn how to operate your firearm (basic manipulations, controls, etc); now, you may want to experiment and get a rough feel for draw strokes, where to carry, etc...hopefully by then, you will have taken a good class and can progress steadily from there my best advice: ALWAYS have an "open mind" and the aptitude to change/evolve what you "know" to what you later learn works best |
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Like most things there is no one way drawstroke. In my opinion the 4-count that SouthNarc, OPS & some others teach is the most robust & practical in terms of fighting but there are a few details, especially on the 2 position, that you need to have someone point out & help you with.
The problem with a couple hours of private instruction from Joe Instructor is that you don't know what you're going to get for your money. You may end up with someone who just lost his job as a Alpaca shearer & decided to start teaching CCW classes. Or you might end up with someone who is really solid. If you save your pennies & make a few sacrifices to go to a reputable school you'll have a very good idea up front of what the quality will be. |
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It sounds like I'm on the right track.
Perhaps a couple hours private (slow motion) instruction, then dry fire practice practice practice and save $$$ for more. Meanwhile get into a little IDPA for practice. I've got some vids on drawstroke, but I'm afraid to watch them to start with, because I'm worried about instilling my own "bad habits". I guess a person has to start with what they can afford, and starting is better than waiting until I'm rich! Just have to find the best instructor for that FIRST couple hours! I guess it's time to find a small back waistband holster of some kind. I'm thinking strong side waistband back right hip. Arizona heat sucks for concealed carry. This will be for concealed carry for a small KAHR P45, and I don't like the front carry position near Stanley and the boys, so I'm thinking back right waistband area. It's all new to me. I grew up in Alaska, and have plenty of good pistol handling skills, but the "tactical" side of pistolcraft is ALL new to me. And, Arizona is getting plenty dangerous. |
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A Ring's Blue Gun is valuable for working on your draw. You can buy one right here: Ring's Blue Guns At Tactical Response Gear I have never been without one in the last 30+ years. |
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Quoted:
It sounds like I'm on the right track. Perhaps a couple hours private (slow motion) instruction, then dry fire practice practice practice and save $$$ for more. Meanwhile get into a little IDPA for practice. I've got some vids on drawstroke, but I'm afraid to watch them to start with, because I'm worried about instilling my own "bad habits". I guess a person has to start with what they can afford, and starting is better than waiting until I'm rich! Just have to find the best instructor for that FIRST couple hours! I guess it's time to find a small back waistband holster of some kind. I'm thinking strong side waistband back right hip. Arizona heat sucks for concealed carry. This will be for concealed carry for a small KAHR P45, and I don't like the front carry position near Stanley and the boys, so I'm thinking back right waistband area. It's all new to me. I grew up in Alaska, and have plenty of good pistol handling skills, but the "tactical" side of pistolcraft is ALL new to me. And, Arizona is getting plenty dangerous. Dear Mr. Guide: I think you're putting the cart before the horse. The draw stroke is not one of the fundamentals. As a couple have mentioned, you should spend that money on an entry-level course covering the basics, starting with safety (muzzle awareness and trigger finger issues). Stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control, follow through and all that good stuff are next. If you don't have a good grip and trigger control and SAFETY, then you're not going to shoot well. Once you get a handle on that, then seek training that includes presentation. That's my .02. John |
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Good post John
You bring up a good point about SAFETY, stance, and proper mindset being just as important as the "presentation". My background is that of growing up in Alaska and hunting small game with a belt holstered .22 single action Ruger Bearcat from about the age 12yrs old. Safety rules were ingrained from as old as I could remember, along with several Hunter Safety classes. So, the Rules of Safety are ingrained and second nature. I also have been exposed to a "tactical mindset" in the Military Rifle training, and with my Security Guard work, which I carry "concealed" pepper spray, and in a bad neighborhood that DOES make one evaluate/read/study "patrol" and "tactical" techniques...just with pepper spray only application (think "short range"). So, my logic was that the next steps (due to some recent incidents) was to: 1.) get the heck OUT of the unarmed security job (with only pepper spray and no backup + combined with a boss that dont give a crap!) which I have done. 2.) get the "tactical" training for protection of the "homefront"/wife/family. (the security job made me MUCH MORE well aware of the threats!) This currently amounts to a strategy of hiding in the locked bedroom with the 12ga/cellphone, and the wife being sent to the (second locked door) saferoom/closet. However, the pistol is the logical backup/and daytime carry (will be getting CCW soon) and so proper training in the "tactical" side of the pistol is necessary/responsible. The CCW class will instruct some of the responsible tactics, but the correct and proper grip and presentation will probably only be slightly instructed. So, without spending $1500+ that I don't have, I'm looking for a good "post-CCW class" or method of instruction to make sure my grip/presentation is polished and correct. I'm Always studying the "patrol / tactical" side of it, but need help with the "muscle memory" work of stance/grip/presentation, which just cannot(should not!) be learned just through the CCW and reading. Supervised muscle memory training, so-to-speak. "Stance, grip (to include proper trigger finger safety), sight alignment (to include proper muzzle awareness), trigger control, follow through and all that good stuff" all being part of the "proper presentation" muscle memory training I'm looking for (responsibly). Part of the problem is that before I can work on muscle memory, I have to finalize a decision on which holster/carry technique (?) to go with. Think Arizona hot/clothes. Decisions, decisions. 
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There are quite a few good schools in & around AZ. Suarez International, Gunsite (expensive) & Louis Awerbuck's Yavapi Firearms Academy to name a few. There are a lot of other places that'll travel to you if you can find a range to use. Some of them will also let you train for free because you helped organize the thing.
I carried in FL & south TX with an inside the waistband holster for years. Have to be careful about rusting so make sure you dry, clean & lube the gun regularly. |
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Before you practice anything, I think its worth putting yourself into the correct mindset.
If you truly believe that you are capable of taking another human's life in fear of losing your own, start putting yourself into the appropriate mindset and increase your situational awareness in day to day activities. With proper awareness, the firearm on your hip/waist/ankle is a useful tool. Without any awareness, it is dead weight. |