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AR15.COM
4/2/2008 11:29:27 AM EDT
With the raising costs of 5.56 ammunition and the advent of the new dedicated uppers my question is how practical is this option?

The full size BDM mags make the reloading feel like the real thing...or at least close enough for learning the strokes needed.

The recoil difference between the real stuff and the 22 rimfire is there but for a beginer who is learning weapons handeling, marksmanship fundamentals, and basic tactics with the rifle...is the recoil that big a matter?

The rough math on the conversion at retail:

Upper, around- $600.00,
6 BDM mags -  $180.00
BUIS- Rear -    $120.00
TOTAL             $900.00

5.56 ammunition @ $350.00 per 1,000
22 Rimfire           @ $250.00 per 5,000  or $50.00 per 1,000

In less than 3,000 rounds of training you will recover the cost of the upper and the needed ammunition.  

So what do you think?

Would Vickers or Rogers let someone shoot there training courses with the sub caliber upper?

4/2/2008 12:43:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Larry has a pistol caliber carbine course coming up. I think you;d have to speak with each instructor individually to see what they say about it
4/6/2008 5:27:19 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't see an issue with training with a subcaliber device.  The trigger, safety, sights, weight, operations, etc. are the same.  

The recoil is different?  Don't know about you but when I'm knocking down pop ups (fast paced, certain amount of stress) under a time limit I'm not too concious of recoil anyway.  Who here hunts?  How often are you really concious of the recoil while firing under stress (or even the noise for that matter)?  

Learning the basics with a .22 is a great idea.  I've seen it work many times.

Yes, you need to shoot the full power loads as both a confirmation of learning the training and as a familiarization of what the weapon (you and your firearm) do with the full power load.

My CAR will get shot a lot more with the ceiner in it than with the .223 loads.  I'm thinking of using most of my tax return to buy a .22 kit for my .45 as well.

Have a good day.
4/7/2008 1:16:29 PM EDT
[#3]
we let you run with 22 it think its a great idea what better way to pratice it alows you to do it more then whatsbetterone training sesion or mutiple  
4/7/2008 11:27:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Personally, I would use .223 / 5.56 while attending a training class.  
Grab a Ciener kit / BDM mags, put them in your regular upper and use that to PRACTICE what you've learned in the class.

The way I think about it, a huge advantage with the Cieiner kit is that you're able to use your "regular" setup - with the sights / optics / lights / stock, etc. etc. set up the way you like 'em and not have to build up another upper from scratch that isn't your "go-to" rifle.

A good class will provide you with LOTS to think about and work on.


Stay safe,
Mike
4/8/2008 4:59:34 PM EDT
[#5]
I do a lot of "jackassing around" with my Ciener kit.  The only real drill I run with it is like a "ready up drill".  Just practicing getting sights up on target then run a couple rounds downrange.