Posted: 7/16/2009 2:14:09 PM EDT
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Hey guys, I’m a college student who just turned 21 and is looking to pick up his first handgun. I have been shooting them on occasion for awhile (mostly my father’s) and can finally go buy one to add to my growing collection of long guns. There is a local shooting club that offers IPSC type events (I’m not sure if they are official IPSC events though) that I would like to participate in. I have some questions on equipment before I go buy.
First, I think I have decided on a 9mm. I know that the biggest thing that will improve my shooting is…. Shooting… so that’s the round I can afford to shoot the most of. Next I need to pick a gun. I would like to spend less than $1000, and I want a gun that I can potentially carry (until I can afford a designated concealed carry gun) and shoot in the IPSC. I also want something that will hold up well and still go bang every time after I’ve put a truck load of ammo through it. I’m willing to spend a bit more up front to get what I really want, because I know that after shooting 1000’s of rounds with it that extra little bit to buy the gun I want will be insignificant. It has to be either a DAO or DA/SA for the local production class (and IPSC as well I believe). I have shot a couple of Glocks, but they do not seem to be natural pointers to me. My father’s 1911 is a very natural pointer, so I would want something with similar geometry. I have handled the XD/XDM line and didn’t like the feel for some reason. The gun that stands out to me from the ergos standpoint is the HK P30. I have not been able to shoot one, but the ones I’ve fondled at the gun show feel like an extension of my hand. Nothing else I have picked up has come close. I feel that they would be a very natural pointer for me and I would be both comfortable and confident with them. They just are not a gun that I have heard anything about in regards to IPSC use, and I don’t know that it would be a good choice (hence the post). I know it will take some training to get over the DA/SA transition, but is it really a big disadvantage? How is the trigger pull? Another thing that has me second guessing my gut desire for the P30 is the cost/availability of mags. I guess they don’t cost too much more than real Glock mags, but I will end up spending another 2-300 on mags alone. What do you think? Any suggestions? I plan to attend another Gun Show on Aug 1 to pick some more up and get a feel for them. I have read about the CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow being the current “in” gun, but I have no experience with CZ’s. Once I have a pistol how many mags should I plan on picking up? I was thinking of buying 6 10rd mags for competition/practice and keeping the high cap mags it comes with for carrying. I can always pic up more down the road. Per the IPSC rule book do I have to buy 10 round mags, or can I buy the high cap ones and only load 10? I’ve also been looking at a comp-tac belt/mag holders/holster to use for the IPSC shoots. I was thinking something along the lines of: http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=33 http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=101 Are these good choices? Any other recommendations? I’m willing to spend a bit more and get quality stuff, but at the same time every ~24 pennies saved is another time I can pull the trigger . |
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First off, IPSC is not USPSA. This is one of my pet peeves - while they are sister organizations, the matches use distinct rule sets, most notably in their Divisions. (The Division you compete in depends on your equipment; the Class you are in is determined by your skills as demonstrated in classifier stages). IPSC matches are *very* few and far between here in the states.
The SP-01 Shadow is very much the "in" gun, especially for IPSC Production. This is because IPSC Production does not have any magazine capacity restrictions (just must be factory-standard mags) and IPSC Production also requires a certain minimum trigger pull for the first shot which makes Glocks and DAOs less desirable, since then every shot will be with a heavier trigger. Thus, the CZ being a DA/SA actually helps its popularity in IPSC, while it is seen to some as a detrimental factor in USPSA. Locally, we primarily see a lot of Glocks and some M&Ps for USPSA Production. I myself shoot a Beretta 92FS in Production. There are some SIGs as well, and another guy shoots a Beretta (PX4) regularly. Production really is suited as a "come as you are" division; with so many people buying striker-fired pistols these days, they can easily come with whatever gun they already have. As for mags - there is absolutely no restriction on the actual capacity of the magazine. In subcompacts, you can even use full-size mags (as long as it all still fits in the box). The rules only state that no magazine can have more than 10 rounds at the start signal. This also means that you can easily up-load by loading 11 rounds into your initial mag - just make absolutely sure that you know which mag that is, and that it is a CoF where you are indeed starting with the gun loaded. In both USPSA and IPSC, the more mags, the better. Most of us are carrying 4 or 5 extra magazines in Production. For USPSA, the top holster for Production is definitely the Blade-Tech DOH. It allows a very fast draw; some people actually use them for Ltd and L10 as well. I myself use Comp-Tac products for Production, though I have a DOH for my 1911 in case I start shooting L10 (the offset piece can be removed and the holster used as a normal belt holster too, which is required to meet the rules for Single-Stack Division). If you want to buy a dedicated competition holster for Production, go for the DOH. The Comp-Tacs are well suited to pull double-duty as a OWB CCW holster (albeit one lacking active retention devices). Assuming that you buy a dedicated rig - mag pouches and holster just for competition, and not doubling as items for other uses - you will most definitely want to get a two-piece belt system; the major brands are Rescomp (CR-Speed), Double-Alpha, and Safariland. These belts are very stiff and well-suited to carry the weight of a full rig (5+ mags and gun). Additionally - and perhaps most importantly - because they are a two-piece system, you can get your rig set and not have to mess with the positioning of the pouches or holster once they are to your liking. On-off is also quicker and easier as well. Now, as to guns - the biggest thing here is to remember that you need to get something that suits *you*, and the only person that can decide that is *you*. As you said that you naturally flock to a 1911, Glocks are most likely not your thing - the wildly different grip angle will cause you to re-learn how to naturally shoot. Fine if all you want to shoot are Glocks; bad if you want to shoot different things. (Plus, bad from the perspective of it taking longer to become proficient.) The best competition guns are not the best carry guns - they will tend to be on the large and heavy side of things. A very popular gun for USPSA Production is the Glock 34; the extended sight radius is great for targets, but the slide length would likely be pretty uncomfortable for IWB carry. A SIG Pro 2022 in 9x19 might be something to consider. They are pretty easily available right now, and inexpensive. Though larger, they can still be carried IWB without trouble if you are up to it (I know some people only ever want to CCW compacts and subcompacts). They also have, IMO, one of the best out-of-the-box triggers. I keep thinking about buying one, but my only use for it would be Production, where I am already perfectly comfortable with my 92FS setup. And this is from somebody who otherwise dislikes SIG handguns. Here's a little overview of everything I shoot: USPSA Production Beretta 92FS, 9x19, Minor CR-Speed Belt (shared with SS rig... I alternate every few months) Blackhawk single magazine pouches (x4) Comp-Tac Belt Holster USPSA Single-Stack Colt Government Model, .45ACP, Major CR-Speed Belt (shared with Production rig... I alternate every few months) G-CODE single magazine pouches (x3) Blackhawk single magazine pouches (x2) Blade-Tech SRB Holster USPSA Limited CZ 75 Tactical Sports, .40S&W, Major DAA Belt CR-Speed Magazine pouches (x4) Ultimate Ghost Holster IDPA Enhanced Service Pistol CZ75B, 9x19 Wilderness Instructor Belt (normal EDC) Blackhawk single magazine pouches (x2) Comp-Tac Belt Holster IDPA Custom Defensive Pistol Colt Commander, .45ACP Wilderness Instructor Belt (normal EDC) Blackhawk single magazine pouches (x2) Comp-Tac Belt Holster IDPA Stock Service Revolver S&W 586, .357 (but shooting .38Spl) Wilderness Instructor Belt (normal EDC) Pouches & Holster still pending (just got the gun last month) |
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I shoot a SP01 in Production and also own a P30. The SP01 is a great gun but if you're planning on carrying it, is a bit heavy. The P30 has great ergo's but you're limited with the sights you can put on it and trigger is not all that great ( I thought it was pretty good until I got my SP01) You might look at getting an M&P Pro. It's cheaper than a SP01 and P30 and you can get a pretty good trigger with it. |
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Thanks for the help guys!
I'll definitely have to take a look at the Sig when I'm at the next gun show. The price difference between it and the HK is enough to buy another 1000 rounds of practice ammo, so that may be the ticket. As far as the magazines go I know this local club will only allow you to load 10 rounds into your mags in their production division. Their rulebook looks really similar to the IPSC's but it looks like have a few differences. |
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Quoted:
As far as the magazines go I know this local club will only allow you to load 10 rounds into your mags in their production division. Their rulebook looks really similar to the IPSC's but it looks like have a few differences. Again, neither IPSC nor USPSA has any restriction on the physical capacity of any magazines used in Production. USPSA simply limits you to 10 rounds per mag at the start signal. IPSC has no limitations (beyond that they must be factory-original or identical OEM magazines). |
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Check out the S&W M&P 9 Pro. It was designed to run USPSA Production (or Limited) out of the box and can also be used in Stock Service Pistol in IDPA. It's a long slide model that comes with a fiber optic front sight and factory trigger job, yet it's not too big to carry. I've used mine for several matches, and it hasn't had a single problem. Also, 17 round mags are less than $25 each.
For both IPSC and IDPA, I use a Comp-Tac straight draw belt holster and Comp-Tac single mag holders (2 for IDPA or USPSA Limited, and 4 for USPSA Production). Don't forget a good gun belt. I usually use a Wilderness Instructor Belt. |