Posted: 5/19/2011 11:42:24 AM EDT
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So my son & I signed up for the small arms rifle school and plan to stay in the cottage/huts. Since we've only been to commerical row, nothing else, let me know from your past experiences what I need to take and how to be prepared. (We're a competitive pistol family so this isn't exactly our first rodeo, but never a cmp competitor)
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| This might be helpful http://www.jarheadtop.com/articles_CampPerry.htm |
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So my son & I signed up for the small arms rifle school and plan to stay in the cottage/huts. Since we've only been to commerical row, nothing else, let me know from your past experiences what I need to take and how to be prepared. (We're a competitive pistol family so this isn't exactly our first rodeo, but never a cmp competitor) Thanks! Do you already have a reserved hut? If not, they've been spoken for over a month now. Not sure what you mean by "cottage". The modules are mostly eaten up by volunteers and officials and the service teams stay in the clubhouse. Bring: (1) sunscreen (2) water (3) hat (4) eye protection (clear) (5) hearing protection (6) notebook and a pen If you actually have a hut reserved, the list gets longer. If you have a spotting scope, coat, and glove, bring them. |
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1st: Sooooo, the cottage ie the huts...full. So next step is to find a decent hotel. Looks like Holiday Inn here we come. 2nd: The spotting scope. Give us the run down to what works, what doesn't & what is the best buy for the money. Thanks for your help! If I am not mistaken the SAFS is shot at 200 yards only? It's been a while. So your requirement for a spotting scope are pretty liberal. You have to think where else will you be using it. Normal service rifle shooting goes out to 600 and that's when you really need a scope. For the money, this is a really a good one to start with - http://www.jarheadtop.com/KONUS.htm but, like all high power shooting equipment you need to consider if you want to spend money now or spend more money later. Eventually you will make the mistake of looking into someone's KOWA scope and decide you need one. Same thing happens with shooting coats, save money now, but then pay more later for a Creedmoor coat. Frank |
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You can always camp as well. You are within walking distance to everything and the sites are nice. Big open field with a modern latrine and shower. It is actually really nice. The plus side to this is you also don't have to fight the traffic at o dark 30 in the morning to get settled on Perry.
You don't really need any equipment for the M16 EIC. They provide magazines, ammo and rifle. It is run completely at 200 yards. If I was going to get two pieces of equipment I would recommend a coat and glove. Any shooting coat and a glove. After that I would recommend a sling.(A M1 web sling is the cheapest however you will find many on robbers row.) Although some years they insist you use the web sling provided. (Which can be rigged into a reasonable Highpower sling.) A scope isn't needed at 200 (unless your eyes are really bad. (In which case I would ask the scorer to call your shot or allow you to use his.) Most shooters can see the 3 inch spotter and 6 inch scoring disk at 200 yards. Believe me they stand out much more than you would think. Drink plenty of water and bring a little chow. During the practice day. Listen to the coach and get good zeroes. I repeat get good zeroes. That should be your only concern. The next day you will use the same rifle. If you have written zeroes its much easier. I have shot theses rifles. I don't have the complaints many have about their accuracy. They seem good at 200 to me. Definately good enough on the 200 meter target. Things to remember: 1. They don't have freefloated barrels so sling tension and hand placement are important. 2. Listen to the AMU instructors in the theater. It might seem simple but man can they teach. The crew is awesome. 3. You will get breaks but there will be a long practice day and the match can run long at times. (Bring food, water, and sunscreen) 4. Be a good pit pig when its your turn. 5. Have fun. Enjoy I enjoy this match the raw shooting with the good and the novice is great. Although I compete alot this is still a fav. Hope this helps. Ask away with anymore questions. |
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When I went to SAFS we didn't get the same rifle both days. We didn't get the same type of ammo either. The 3-round burst triggers are horrible. Each pull is different as you go through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd shots. So dry fire many times to see how it will be. Frank |
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Frank agreed, that the triggers are heavy and its best to really feel them out. It is not a match gun its a stock M16 with stock triggers.
That being said for the last two SAFS the same rifle was issued the next day as the practice day. Hornady 75 grain has been used over the last two years as well. YMMV. |
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You can use 20rnd USGI mags.
I recommend taking those with you as they issued 30rndrs in 2010 which of course affects a good prone position. Rifle and sling are provided and you have to use them. You don't have to sling up but if you do you have to use what they provide. The nylon sling worked fine for me. Everything else you can use. Shooting jacket, scope, mat, etc. A short vid I did of SAFS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iCvMrVQxs4 A gallery of pics: http://www.danpassaro.com/p685135561 |
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Although I haven't been to a SAFS only event, I have shot the Fleet Forces Command and All Navy matches. If you are planning on getting into regular high-power matches, plan on getting gear now that will last and work for your needs down the road. If you are unsure, then wait and check out gear that other shooters have at a match. My first year I had nothing and shot as well as a first timer can hope. The biggest thing that I got was information. I was able to look through a Konus and a Kowa side by side at 600 yds. They were both 80mm and were nearly identical. The link someone posted for jarheadtop.com is where I went to get mine. You can find them cheaper, but he says that as long as he is alive he will give you full value back when you trade it in to upgrade years later. (More details on his site). Another good place for info on what to bring is the US Navy Shooting Team website (www.usnst.org) The Atlantic Fleet match program has a list at the end of all the little stuff that you will usually forget.
That being said, here are a few things that I take to matches: I carry all my gear. My shooting mat, stool, and borrowed coat are tossed in my seabag. I carry a backpack with my lunch, some 550 cord, sunscreen, a roll of TP in a plastic bag, and high energy snacks (trail mix, granola bars, power bars) My stool is a tri-pod hunting stool, so I carry my gear in a range bag instead. Things to consider: 5 mags, some basic cleaning gear, sight black, firm grip, DOPE BOOK, extra ink pens, leatherman (or other) multi-tool, extra hearing protection, etc. When you are looking at scopes, I recommend an 80mm lens. You can get by with a 60mm, but the 80 is so much easier to see mirage and also to see the target at 600 yds when there is a lot of mirage. I bought the Konus and the only regret is that it doesn't have threads for a protective lens cover. I bought the Creedmoor scope cover and I think that I will be ok now. The angled eye piece is a HUGE help compared to the straight one. It helps with focus to bring a blinder for your non-dominant eye, hooded sweat shirt, and ball cap. We shoot in all weather, so a tarp to cover your gear and a rain jacket will help. Carry extra water, and if you can access it keep a cooler with more water. A couple of gaterades will help by the afternoon. When you go to the pits, it helps to have a rope to pull on the carriage. A spray bottle with vegetable oil will help to lube the rails also. Veg oil is bio degradable and eco friendly and cheap. |
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Quoted:
So my son & I signed up for the small arms rifle school and plan to stay in the cottage/huts. Since we've only been to commerical row, nothing else, let me know from your past experiences what I need to take and how to be prepared. (We're a competitive pistol family so this isn't exactly our first rodeo, but never a cmp competitor) Thanks! Sir, FWIW I've read through all the responses including that of Mr. WeR borg. I attended SAFS some years ago but I did it largely because I had a new barrel on my rifle and wanted to get a good Camp Perry zero. Back then you were allowed to use your own rifle and there were no leg points awarded. Depending how far you want to go with getting into high power competition you may want to defer buying some of the items others have mentioned. Spotting scopes worth using aren't cheap and the recommendation to check out Jim Owens' site is a good one for you to investigate. Champions Choice on Commercial Row at Camp Perry always has some representative scopes set up just outside their door for you to look through so you can actually make a side by side comparison. My recommendation for someone just getting his feet wet in this sport is to go slow and only buy what your immediate needs dictate. It is my understanding that CMP will issue you a rifle, complete with slings and magazines, and ammo. I would bring my own twenty round magazines because as already mentioned the thirty round mags interfere with a good low prone position. I would also bring a good shooting glove and coat. Most of the light cloth coats offer little support and in my opinion aren't worth the cost but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would also recommend a shooting mat. While not mandatory it certainly is nice to have when the grass is wet or the firing line is interspersed with pools of water. Speaking of water make sure to bring your own, the water jugs on the line get emptied quick by everybody that didn't bring their own. Bring food also, I don't remember if they give you a lunch break or not. You may be able to use the camping area at Camp Perry, as already mentioned huts, modules, etc. were already spoken for some time ago. I believe you may still be able to get beds in the barracks, you need to contact the Camp Perry Clubhouse to inquire. The weather at Camp Perry at the end of July or early August can be a bit hot and rainstorms coming in from the lake are not infrequent. Be prepared for all conditions. I keep rain gear in my shooting stool at all times. Lastly, especially for the beginners the USAMU provides some really helpful tips, take good notes and ask questions when you don't understand. There will be individual coaches on the line to help anyone in need but It's helpful for them if you already know what you're doing. JMHO, 7zero1 out. |
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I was at the SAFS last year, and will be again this year. Here's the minimum: Ear & eye protection. Either sunscreen or rain gear or both. Other things that would be good to have: A pen & notebook. A couple of sandwiches, a few granola bars, water &/or Gatorade. Things to bring if you've got them, or plan on getting into highpower seriously (but if you're still new at this, don't go out of your way to buy this stuff until after you get to Perry and see what everyone is using and which version of everything you like): 2 20-round mags, some kind of a shooting coat & glove, some kind of a portable stool (which is nice to have something to sit on during down-time, but also good to rest your rifle between standing shots), a stop-watch to keep an eye on your time in slow-fire stages. If you've got a scope and scope stand, and a shooting mat, bring them along, but chances are your coach on the firing line will have those. The entire match is shot at 200 yards, so something like a wind meter, or a super-high-end scope probably isn't necessary, but if you've got one bring that too. I missed the leg point cut-off by 2 match points last year, and I intend to make the cut this year, so I'll be bringing all my highpower gear, except my rifle. So if you need to borrow anything come find me. |
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I was refering to the target carriers on Valie, Brenda told us 2 years ago that if caught with oil/grease on the carriers, we'd be DQ'd. Fine for the carriers on Rodriguez. Just to strighten things out. 'Borg Sir, actually during the many hours I've spent in the pits at Viale, Brenda the Bxxxch makes that threat alot. I've never seen nor heard of her actually making good on that threat. Mostly I would be happy if she were not allowed to speak! 7zero1 out. |
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You can always camp as well. You are within walking distance to everything and the sites are nice. Big open field with a modern latrine and shower. It is actually really nice. The plus side to this is you also don't have to fight the traffic at o dark 30 in the morning to get settled on Perry. You don't really need any equipment for the M16 EIC. They provide magazines, ammo and rifle. It is run completely at 200 yards. If I was going to get two pieces of equipment I would recommend a coat and glove. Any shooting coat and a glove. After that I would recommend a sling.(A M1 web sling is the cheapest however you will find many on robbers row.) Although some years they insist you use the web sling provided. (Which can be rigged into a reasonable Highpower sling.) A scope isn't needed at 200 (unless your eyes are really bad. (In which case I would ask the scorer to call your shot or allow you to use his.) Most shooters can see the 3 inch spotter and 6 inch scoring disk at 200 yards. Believe me they stand out much more than you would think. Drink plenty of water and bring a little chow. During the practice day. Listen to the coach and get good zeroes. I repeat get good zeroes. That should be your only concern. The next day you will use the same rifle. If you have written zeroes its much easier. I have shot theses rifles. I don't have the complaints many have about their accuracy. They seem good at 200 to me. Definately good enough on the 200 meter target. Things to remember: 1. They don't have freefloated barrels so sling tension and hand placement are important. 2. Listen to the AMU instructors in the theater. It might seem simple but man can they teach. The crew is awesome. 3. You will get breaks but there will be a long practice day and the match can run long at times. (Bring food, water, and sunscreen) 4. Be a good pit pig when its your turn. 5. Have fun. Enjoy I enjoy this match the raw shooting with the good and the novice is great. Although I compete alot this is still a fav. Hope this helps. Ask away with anymore questions. ^^^ THIS ^^^ Also, as a former SAFS Line Coach, you should receive the same rifle both days. Please don't lose sight of why we hold the SAFS every year. In keeping with Teddy Roosevelt's intent from the turn of the last century, to teach basic marksmanship skills to the civilian community. These are the same crappy three round burst triggers that I took to both Afghanistan and Iraq. I hope you enjoy this opportunity to learn from some of the finest marksman the US Military has to offer. 
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Hope you don't get the rifle we had last year.
Here is dad trying to shoot with the rifle that jams every shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhDZVyn2o0o&feature=related Even with a jamming rifle, it was still a fantastic experience. Dad took safs in 1963 and always told us about it, so i got dad, my brother and I together and we went to pistol and rifle last year. Enjoy! |
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Hope you don't get the rifle we had last year. Here is dad trying to shoot with the rifle that jams every shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhDZVyn2o0o&feature=related Even with a jamming rifle, it was still a fantastic experience. Dad took safs in 1963 and always told us about it, so i got dad, my brother and I together and we went to pistol and rifle last year. Enjoy! I'm glad you both still had an awesome time together despite the non-functionality of the rifle. Two years in a row I had the same issue however the first year ours was going full auto as well.... not burst but dumping all eight rounds in rapid. It's still fun and a great way to introduce new members to the sport. |