Posted: 5/9/2010 3:01:21 PM EDT
|
I'm going to an Appleseed Clinic in a couple of weeks and on their faqs they recommend bringing a shooting coat or elbow pads. I'm also looking to start shooting Service Rifle after that. I looked at the USMC Shooting Coats that some sell but discovered that Champions Choice has a cotton twill coat for a bit more. Would this be a good entry level coat for the Service Rifle and to use at the Appleseed shoot?
TIA, Marty |
|
You don't even need a coat for service rifle shooting but you will probably be more comfortable with one. Most experienced shooters use coats made from leather or nylon. You may want to go to a match and see if anyone is selling an old one. That's better than buying one brand new that may not work well.
Don't confuse the Appleseed shoots with an actual highpower clinic. If you can find a clinic that is geared towards service rifle shooting you will be much better off. You will also be better off by just going to a match rather than going to an Appleseed shoot. |
|
Coats are all fine and good if you know what you want and can afford them.
The USMC shooting jacket fits no human I've ever seen. And works very well. A section of In-Out door carpeting works well for all kinds of out of doors activities, including shooting. Plus it's cheap 458 |
|
Creedmore makes a nice entry level coat as well, with padded elbows and shoulder and they come in right or left hand. Not much support like a hardback coat, but they're not nearly as expensive either (around $65). Still, they have the advantage of made in U.S.A. quality and the pads are great, as are the buckles which are replaceable. Great coat for the price. My daughter has one and is very happy with it. I have a hardback and it's pobably the last coat I will ever have to buy. It's built like a tank.
Roy |
|
Quoted:
Creedmore makes a nice entry level coat as well, with padded elbows and shoulder and they come in right or left hand. Not much support like a hardback coat, but they're not nearly as expensive either (around $65). Still, they have the advantage of made in U.S.A. quality and the pads are great, as are the buckles which are replaceable. Great coat for the price. My daughter has one and is very happy with it. I have a hardback and it's pobably the last coat I will ever have to buy. It's built like a tank. Roy I've had one of these for about 7 years now, it's holding up pretty well. I really wish I could afford a hard back though. Pete A. |
| The Champions coat isn't a bad starter rig. Price is reasonable, quality is good. I ran one for three or four years. Use a sweatshirt underneath it. I also added some regular athletic elbow pads. Stumbled across a good deal on a leather coat about three years ago and have been running that ever since. Most serious shooters are using the hard backs. |
|
Quoted:
You will also be better off by just going to a match rather than going to an Appleseed shoot. I'm going to disagree. If your starting out shooting, Appleseed is a great place to learn basics. Going to a match where no coaching is allowed and everyone is really too busy doing thier own thing to help you other than little bits of advice before and after you shoot is pretty damn worthless. But any actual instruction with assistance from someone where you have the time and the means to do it, is better than just showing up to shoot XTC. Go for the appleseed, learn the basics, then go to a match and see how they are applied to service rifle, and go from there. Just have fun. If its not fun, just go back to whatever you were doing before. Just have fun is the main thing. See what its all about, and set yourself some reasonable achievable short term objectives, and some long term ones as well. Work on what you can when you can. The top shooters have awsome gear, and rifles, but truth is they could still be top shooters with entry level gear as well. Thats why they are top shooters. 
|
|
Quoted:
The Champions coat isn't a bad starter rig. Price is reasonable, quality is good. I ran one for three or four years. Use a sweatshirt underneath it. I also added some regular athletic elbow pads. Stumbled across a good deal on a leather coat about three years ago and have been running that ever since. Most serious shooters are using the hard backs. +1 on the Champions coat. Champions Coats As a newbie I figured $85 was a good price for a starter coat. The difference in price from the Creedmoor HB will be better spent on bullets, powder, and primers at this time. Once I get to Master and am struggling to get to GM I will upgrade .
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will also be better off by just going to a match rather than going to an Appleseed shoot. I'm going to disagree. I can respect that. Quoted:
If your starting out shooting, Appleseed is a great place to learn basics. Going to a match where no coaching is allowed and everyone is really too busy doing thier own thing to help you other than little bits of advice before and after you shoot is pretty damn worthless. But any actual instruction with assistance from someone where you have the time and the means to do it, is better than just showing up to shoot XTC. That is why I suggested going to a clinic. Unfortunately, the original poster later said that he doesn't have any in his area. Although I would think that a local club or state association would have some contact information for people that can help the new shooter. Quoted:
Go for the appleseed, learn the basics, then go to a match and see how they are applied to service rifle, and go from there. Just have fun. If its not fun, just go back to whatever you were doing before. Just have fun is the main thing. See what its all about, and set yourself some reasonable achievable short term objectives, and some long term ones as well. Work on what you can when you can. The top shooters have awsome gear, and rifles, but truth is they could still be top shooters with entry level gear as well. Thats why they are top shooters.
I still think that in the context of the original post, learning about service rifle competition, you will learn more by going to a match than an appleseed shoot. While the Appleseed may teach some basics about rifles and shooting milk jugs, going to a match will provide a much better venue about highpower and how to shoot matches. Also, the matches will provide plenty of other people that can help the new shooter in the sport. I don't think you'll get that at an Appleseed shoot. To me it seems if you want to learn about something (SR competition) you go to the people that have that knowledge. |
|
Quoted:
I still think that in the context of the original post, learning about service rifle competition, you will learn more by going to a match than an appleseed shoot. While the Appleseed may teach some basics about rifles and shooting milk jugs, going to a match will provide a much better venue about highpower and how to shoot matches. Also, the matches will provide plenty of other people that can help the new shooter in the sport. I don't think you'll get that at an Appleseed shoot. To me it seems if you want to learn about something (SR competition) you go to the people that have that knowledge. Milk jugs? Do you really know anything about Appleseed? From what I've read the standard they attempt to train everyone to is 4 moa and they tell you to practice beforehand on 1" squares at 25m. That's a helluva lot smaller than milk jugs. I did attend a M-1 clinic before Katrina put everything on hold. The club rifle was so worn out no matter how much the sights were adjusted, the poi was the same. All you got to shoot was 35 shots. Hard to learn anything when the rifle isn't up to snuff. Which brings me back to the reason I want to attend Appleseed. They are there to teach and coach the shooters. To help the students learn the fundamentals. I've gone to watch a couple of High Power matches. I've seen new and lower ranked shooters struggling. The better shooters might have a moment to give a piece of advice here and there but as far as really helping them become better shooters, they were on their own. Really isn't a good image for a program that was started to help people become better marksmen. Marty |
|
Quoted:
Milk jugs? Do you really know anything about Appleseed? From what I've read the standard they attempt to train everyone to is 4 moa and they tell you to practice beforehand on 1" squares at 25m. That's a helluva lot smaller than milk jugs. The milk jug reference was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Still, there is a bit too much "extraneous" material involved in the Appleseed program. I still think that if you want to learn about highpower rifle competition, you won't learn it at an Appleseed shoot. Quoted:
I did attend a M-1 clinic before Katrina put everything on hold. The club rifle was so worn out no matter how much the sights were adjusted, the poi was the same. All you got to shoot was 35 shots. Hard to learn anything when the rifle isn't up to snuff. Whether the rifle is worn out or not won't make any difference on learning the sport. My recommendation to attend a match or clinic is based on the fact that you need to understand the course of fire, the targets, and the commitment involved. You can learn that with either a fancy spacegun or a clapped-out Garand. Once you understand the basics of the sport then you can worry about whether the rifle you are using is good enough and how to improve and move forward. Quoted:
Which brings me back to the reason I want to attend Appleseed. They are there to teach and coach the shooters. To help the students learn the fundamentals. I've gone to watch a couple of High Power matches. I've seen new and lower ranked shooters struggling. The better shooters might have a moment to give a piece of advice here and there but as far as really helping them become better shooters, they were on their own. Really isn't a good image for a program that was started to help people become better marksmen. The Appleseed coaches may be there to help shooters learn the fundamentals, but they are not there to teach about service rifle competition. The point that I have been trying to make is that you will need more than an Appleseed session to get started. It's unfortunate that sometimes highpower shooters have to learn by trial and error. But while everyone can't coach everyone else all the time, I have found that at the highpower matches I go to there are still plenty of shooters willing to help the new guy. |
|
OK guys, you are missing the point. I want coaching on the fundamentals BEFORE I try Service Rifle. I came out of competitive hangun shooting. The PPC in my screen name stands for Police Pistol Combat. I'm no longer in Law Enforcement so I thought I would try something different. Before I started in PPC I found a former competitor to coach me before I entered my first match. I can learn the couse of fire and other sport related items at a match but I can't get coaching there. As far as substandard equipment, I am well aware that if you don't have at least decent equipment, you can't tell what you are doing wrong much less what you may be doing right and neither can anyone else.
I've looked and there are no High Power clinics in my area and talking with the clubs in driving distance, they don't have plans to put on one. Due to obligations I can't leave to attend one several hundred miles away. There aren't any reduced courses near me either. I started this thread asking advice on an entry level shooting jacket not to ask you about your opinion about Appleseed. It's all a moot point now. I ordered a Creedmoor jacket from CMP. Marty |
|
It seems Hi Power is a regional thing. Some states have all kinds of clubs and matches (Pennsylvania seems to have a lot). Others do almost nothing. Iowa has one major player and two or three smaller clubs, I'm lucky enough to only be an hours drive from the big range in this state.
Welcome to the sport! Creedmore coat will serve you well. |
|
You won't be disapointed in your choice of a jacket (although my daughter's fit in a much smaller box than I was expecting). Probably because I have a hardback and they are pretty massive. Regardless, hopefully, you got one large enough to wear a sweatshirt underneath it (everyone seems to, even with a hardback coat). It gives you extra padding everywhere and also packs you into the thing, which is generally a good thing. If they haven't shipped, you can call and change your order or even send the yours back if it's not the right size. They are noted for their customer service.
Have fun at your appleseed. I've heard they are excellent, although I've not attended one personally...yet. If we get one local, I'll be there. I've been shooting highpower for a few years now, but I know enough to know that I don't know everything, and I can always pick up something new or refine something old. Until I can clean all my targets, I'm all ears! Roy |
|
Thanks Roy!! CMP has them listed as S, M, L, XL. When I couldn't get anyone to answer at CMP South, I called Creedmore. They gave me advice on the size I need. Seems I'm on the small side of XL, so I should be able to fit a sweatshirt under one. If not, hopefully I will have time to send it back. If not, I can always take my old field jacket.
Marty |
|
Marty,
Good choice on the coat. I got the same one, and am happy with it. Enjoy the Appleseed! I attended my first one a few weeks ago, and learned alot. Even earned my Rifleman badge on day 2. You'll meet some good folks and likely a Highpower shooter or 2. It was well worth my time. X |
|
Quoted:
OK guys, you are missing the point. I want coaching on the fundamentals BEFORE I try Service Rifle. I came out of competitive hangun shooting. The PPC in my screen name stands for Police Pistol Combat. I'm no longer in Law Enforcement so I thought I would try something different. Before I started in PPC I found a former competitor to coach me before I entered my first match. I can learn the couse of fire and other sport related items at a match but I can't get coaching there. As far as substandard equipment, I am well aware that if you don't have at least decent equipment, you can't tell what you are doing wrong much less what you may be doing right and neither can anyone else. I've looked and there are no High Power clinics in my area and talking with the clubs in driving distance, they don't have plans to put on one. Due to obligations I can't leave to attend one several hundred miles away. There aren't any reduced courses near me either. I started this thread asking advice on an entry level shooting jacket not to ask you about your opinion about Appleseed. It's all a moot point now. I ordered a Creedmoor jacket from CMP. Marty I think you've got your head on straight! I went pretty much the same route - I went to an Appleseed with my Ruger 10/22 with Tech Sights. At Appleseed the really take the time and work with you to teach you the fundamentals of rifle shooting. Also you get some exposure on range commands, range safety, etc. Then I went to Highpower clinic where they don't spend much time on the fundamentals, but teach you how to conduct yourself during a match. I think you are approaching things the right way. BTW, I went to Appleseed with my USMC Shooting Coat, and used it all the way through my Highpower clinic, up to when my Creedmoor Cordura Hardback got delivered. Now I'm passing the USMC coat down to a buddy who is just thinking about getting into the sport. If you are strapped for cash then the USMC coat will get you started - won't help much in offhand, but will work just about as good or better than anything else in sitting and prone. If you can afford it, one of the better shooting coats with the fastex buckles on straps and better padding would be a better choice. I decided to stick with the sport, so I saved up and bought the Creedmoor on the principle of "buy once, cry once". |
|
That is very odd that they didn't spend time coaching you on the fundamentals. Every HP clinic I've been a part of as a coach or participant had a coach for each new shooter on the line. Sometimes they were spread between two shooters, but for the most part it was one to one.
B |
|
They did do some instruction on the fundamentals such as position, sight picture, etc. during the classroom phase, but I didn't get much instruction, personally, during the shooting phase. However that may have been because some of the other participants may have needed it more. What I mean is that I had been gathering information, buying gear, practicing and dry-firing, etc. for a year before actually attending this clinic and felt that I was already fairly-well prepared - one of the gentlemen assisting with the clinic, an older guy who was triple-distinguished, walked by during our prone prep period and remarked to me that my position was excellent, then went on. Another fellow stood behind me and the guy shooting to my right (he was shooting an M1), and spent time with the other guy, who was having problems loading the Garand. He did assist me in getting my sights properly zeroed. Thinking back, some of the other participants seemed to be getting more one-on-one from the instructors.
I still think that an Appleseed shoot is a great way to get started in rifle shooting. At the shoot I attended, one middle-aged lady was there with her husband, and she confessed that she had NEVER fired a gun of any kind before that morning. The night before her husband showed her the basics of how to load and cock her new 10/22, how the safety worked, etc. Her first sighting-in group looked like a shotgun pattern! But by lunchtime she was shooting groups at 25 yards that you could easily cover with the palm of your hand. I know that's not great marksmanship, but it still represented a vast improvement over her earlier efforts, and represented a testament to the work of the Appleseed instructors. My two nephews are buying AR15 clones, and I recommended that they attend an Appleseed to learn the basics. |
|
I'm interested in the same thing.
Quoted:
Creedmore makes a nice entry level coat as well, with padded elbows and shoulder and they come in right or left hand. Not much support like a hardback coat, but they're not nearly as expensive either (around $65). Still, they have the advantage of made in U.S.A. quality and the pads are great, as are the buckles which are replaceable. Great coat for the price. My daughter has one and is very happy with it. I have a hardback and it's pobably the last coat I will ever have to buy. It's built like a tank. Roy this one: http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16135&cat=249&page=1 ? |
|
If you go to this page you can find the CMP's shooting coats which are the same as the one you linked to only blue instead of green.
Marty |
|
Quoted:
If you go to this page you can find the CMP's shooting coats which are the same as the one you linked to only blue instead of green. Marty They only seem to have S, M, L though. The Creedmoor page shows numbers 40, 42, etc. Is it just code for 38-42 = M type of thing? 
|
|
When I couldn't get through to CMP, they really need more people between long wait times on hold and 3-4 month shipping estimates, I called Creedmoor and they gave me size guidance. I just checked and they have s,m, l, xxl, xxxl in left and right hand. They do seem to be out of xl though.
Marty |