Posted: 6/16/2010 11:50:20 PM EDT
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I have a quick question for all you training Joe's out there
Here is my dillema, I was minding my own business at about 2:30am and the door bell rings..... I checked the clock and noticed the time and figured it was my drunk buddy coming by after a night out Well I got my sig 226 40 and answered, it turned out to be some drunk chick looking for her skanky friend Anywho, there have been a couple of home invasions around here, and I kind of fell under gunned if rushed from such a short dist... I have learned from this exp. not to go on assuming who I think it is going to be  ........ so I am asking specifily weapons wise what would be the best weapon to answer the door with taking into acct. power and retention issue
please omit liability as all bullets used have to be taken into acct. as liabilities I live in an apt. and to top it off the door opens to the inside I was thinking a pistol grip shotgun, a glock with those huge 30rd mags or maybe something like an mp5 and no not the real version that cost 15k I have a 6.8 LMT mrp and a pof 308 14.5, but I feel they are kind of big for this specific sit. I could practice practice for this issue with one of those Insight please even if it's just one word Thanks |
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If my doorbell rang at 2 am, I would have a semi shotgun and a handgun on my waste. You can hold the shotgun with your right hand and open the door with the left. They won't see the shotgun if you keep the door partially open. In case of a jam with the shotgun, you have the handgun on your hip or lower back.
2 guns = 1 gun, 1 gun = 0 |
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Quoted: Personally, I wouldn't open the door until I was sure that I knew who was there. Peephole, video camera, look out the window or something. You ain't gotta worry about firearm retention and firepower if the door isn't open. This. The first step to surviving an Ambush is to do everything possible to avoid said ambush. Pistol grip shotguns are handy but any reliable pistol works. I don't see a need for 30rd mags in a glock. Have you ever seen how far them sum bitches stick out the bottom of the magwell?? That's just another foot of material for a bg to grasp and rip the gun out of your hand. |
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Personally, I wouldn't open the door until I was sure that I knew who was there. Peephole, video camera, look out the window or something. You ain't gotta worry about firearm retention and firepower if the door isn't open. I second the need for the ability to securely view the situation outside your entry. Install (w/ landlord permission) something like this: http://www.safetyvue.com/about2.htm Further, given the sorry standards in US construction, you DO have to worry about the tactical situation, even if the door isn't open ... since most doors can be "opened" pretty rapidly by a determined assailant. This leads to the need to harden your door, at least minimally, against forced entry. |
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Follow-up question, please. OP said his door 'opens to the inside.' Which is better? If a door opens outward, it's obviously much more resistant to a forced entry when closed. But isn't it better to have an inward opening door when you open it to speak to someone? That way you can keep a foot on the door and block entry. Or is that just an old-wives tale? If a door is open an inch or two, can a determined intruder simply push the door open even if your foot is firmly planted on the floor? Once the door is open, an outward opening door is useless - that much is certain. Nevermind - I'm going with IR video camera / intercom / outward opening reinforced door with electromagnetic lock and battery backup. Electric rollup hurricane shutters everywhere else.  |
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Nevermind - I'm going with IR video camera / intercom / outward opening reinforced door with electromagnetic lock and battery backup. Electric rollup hurricane shutters everywhere else.
Don't forget ... NEVER install those stupid doors with the vertical windows on one side (or worse, both sides) of the door. My parents loved those damned things, and they've been on just about every "colonial style" house or apartment that I've rented in my Army career. Now, in Germany ... when you locked the door with the key, four 1/3" steel hooks locked into the steel frame from the sides of the door ... and that was in a nice neighborhood! |
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A hand gun in your hand is a great start. I would also harden my door with at least a chain lock. Replace the crappy crews it comes with with longer ones and get them nice and deep into the frame
while you're at home depot buying the door chain pick up sme of those rubber door stops. If you stage one before you open the door itwill give you a few precious seconds when the bad guy tries to shove the door open now go to the aisle with peepholes and buy one to install. Next time ask who it is hrough the door. You can have the a whole cnversation thisway. Things don't add up call the fuzz! |
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A hand gun in your hand is a great start. I would also harden my door with at least a chain lock. Replace the crappy crews it comes with with longer ones and get them nice and deep into the frame A hard kick from a big dude will snap most door chains. while you're at home depot buying the door chain pick up sme of those rubber door stops. If you stage one before you open the door itwill give you a few precious seconds when the bad guy tries to shove the door open
Really? You need to A) be more specific than that, and B) explain how you think a "rubber door stop" is going to get installed fast enough to slow a determined invader down. now go to the aisle with peepholes and buy one to install.
Right, so as soon as they see the light in the peephole darken, they bust a cap straight through the PH into your eye socket. |
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now go to the aisle with peepholes and buy one to install.
Right, so as soon as they see the light in the peephole darken, they bust a cap straight through the PH into your eye socket. (1) don't turn on the hall light when looking through the peep hole - it announces your presence and kills your night vision (2) You're full of it. They are far more likely to just shoot through the door than try to thread a bullet through the peep hole. Hopefully they have something wussy that won't fully penetrate a steel door, but I wouldn't trust the door to stand up to even a 9mm. Mythbusters did a show about forcing entry (through doors, not the other way). Their results were that the chain will eventually fail, but it takes several tries IF you use the longer screws. The stock screws are just to make the uninformed feel good about their protection. While we're on the subject, make sure your strikeplate is also deeply anchored, preferably to both the door frame and the structural members beyond. Still, it's all just buying time for you to grab your AR and find a concealed position from which to expend your 30 rounds. |
| Did you have a bad day shaken? I'm trying to give the guy ideas on how to buy himself some time. He asked how to open a door and be a little more safe. Not how to keep a swat team or group of bad guys out. Perhaps you have more suggestions rather than criticizing ideas? |
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Did you have a bad day shaken? I'm trying to give the guy ideas on how to buy himself some time. He asked how to open a door and be a little more safe. Not how to keep a swat team or group of bad guys out. Perhaps you have more suggestions rather than criticizing ideas? Hectic day ... not bad. I am just tired of the misinformation on this site. Most ARFCOM'ers have the best of intentions, but, as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In the case of your post, I was more concerned about the 2nd and 3rd order effects of your advice (e.g., installing a cheap peep hole and getting shot through the door for your trouble). The statement about the rubber door stop just seemed truly ridiculous to me. Are you going to permanently drill it into the floor to keep the door shut? If not, how are you going to get it wedged in as two 190lb thugs slam into the already unlatched door? |
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The idea to the rubber door stop is to set it on the ground in the path of the doors arc when you hear the knock. This will allw him to open thedoor a crack should he so choose. With the chain and the door stop staged he can have the door slightly open and if things go south still be able to move away. Yeah the guy will get in eventually but I'll take 5 seconds if that's all I get.
The peep hole obviously serves a purpose. If the bad guy just shoots him hewas there to kill him anyway and there are easier ways to do that. If he wants in now he still has to go through the door except now there's 175lbs of meat in the doors arc so why do it that way? I wanted to suggest things that are easy to do and not expensive. People won't install things that are hard or expensive so he wouldn't increase his security even minimally. |
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We have glass panels from top to bottom on our front door. Frankly, anyone knocking at 2AM on our front door should not be surprised to see me come downstairs with an 870 at low ready. This is a perfectly legal thing to do. If they really need help or something, then they can deal with it. Not worried about political correctness at this point, and if it is a "bad guy" then the sight of me with a shotgun will likely cause them to scatter.
ETA: Anything that needs to be said can be said through the glass. No need to open the door. |
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AR15 (in proper HD config - RDS, white light, sling, good ammo/mags, reliably tested/proven.)
Don't answer it. Let them think nobody's home and observe from concealment (second story window, behind blinds). Just let them walk away as you continue to evaluate the threat level. How many are there? Are they going door-to-door? Are they casing the area? Do they get into a car with others and drive off? I'm serious. 
But also... 
ETA: also a loud "who is it?" through the door, while armed is another option. Based on the answer/circumstances, you could open the door, or just say "no thank you...i'm busy"
ETA2: my front door needs to be upgraded/hardened. I'm just neglecting to that and other basic security posture enhancements. |
| If somebody rings my doorbell at 2:30 A.M. I am going to get a firearm, Pop open my upstairs window and look down on the door to see WTF is going on. We have security lights. I suppose the Steyr SPP would be more practical than an AR. If i didn't have that option, i would stand back 10 feet from the door and yell "Who's there?" We live in a rural area and it would be highly unusual for someone to be at my door early in the morning. It would be more likely scrap metal thieves would be trolling about the neighborhoods looking for empty homes to loot HVAC's from. |
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Personally, I wouldn't open the door until I was sure that I knew who was there. Peephole, video camera, look out the window or something. You ain't gotta worry about firearm retention and firepower if the door isn't open. This. The first step to surviving an Ambush is to do everything possible to avoid said ambush. Pistol grip shotguns are handy but any reliable pistol works. I don't see a need for 30rd mags in a glock. Have you ever seen how far them sum bitches stick out the bottom of the magwell?? That's just another foot of material for a bg to grasp and rip the gun out of your hand. X1000. Get one of those video intercoms systems at wal-mart ($175) so you don't even have to open the door. Motion detection light as well so you can see who it is. |
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A hand gun in your hand is a great start. I would also harden my door with at least a chain lock. Replace the crappy crews it comes with with longer ones and get them nice and deep into the frame A hard kick from a big dude will snap most door chains. while you're at home depot buying the door chain pick up sme of those rubber door stops. If you stage one before you open the door itwill give you a few precious seconds when the bad guy tries to shove the door open
Really? You need to A) be more specific than that, and B) explain how you think a "rubber door stop" is going to get installed fast enough to slow a determined invader down. now go to the aisle with peepholes and buy one to install.
Right, so as soon as they see the light in the peephole darken, they bust a cap straight through the PH into your eye socket. And they then get inside how? |
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Took me a minute to find this, but here's a first-hand account from a member here (not me). I think it's relevant to the discussion...especially the first part of the story.
My personal shooting. I was at home alone when I heard a vehicle pull up in my drive way. I looked out a window and witnessed a man putting on gloves. At the same time I heard a knock on my door, so I knew more than one guy. The ford explorer looked like a guys down the street that had been around, so I got up to answer the door. I walked by my cabinet by the front door cause something just didn't feel right. I was just in shorts and I put my .40cal S&W in my pocket. I made the mistake of cracking open the door to ask what the person needed. I should not have done this. As I opened the door a hand came in and sprayed me with pepper spray. I tried to close the door but the guy was already pushing it open. The force knocked me back into my house about 8 feet. I was almost blind but I was able to tuck myself over to block the view of myself pulling out my handgun. The guy was all over me spraying me in the face and about the head. I turned and put a round in his leg. Later I found out he was 6'5" and over 300lbs. I am 5'7" and 160. You get the picture. Anyway. He backed up away from me and I spun around and looked at him. It was very blurry but he was wearing a black tee shirt and holding something in his hand. He looked just like a black silhouette I shoot at the range. I put two in his chest and he dropped like a box of rocks. I spun to shoot the other guy but he was running out the door. No danger to me anymore. I ran and closed the front door and locked it. I then spun around and came back to the first guy. I couldn't see very well but I knew he was dying by the girgling noises he was making. I then stumbled down the hallway to my bedroom to get my cell phone and call 911. THAT WAS A BITCH! when you can't see your phone. My eyes were killing me. I finally got it and called. I told them everything that happened as well as I could and told them my handgun would be safe for when LEO got there. During this time I heard the other guy run back into the explorer and peel out. I then opened the front door to wait for help. The sheriff was there in I SHIT YOU NOT 30 seconds Then EMS about another 3 seconds. I was helped out to the side of the house and sat down and attented to by EMS. That is when the air hit my eyes and then I was blind. The pain was almost to much. The guy was dead on scene. I was helped into a ambulance and my eyes irrigated with saline. The EMS guys started to cough and gag cause of the pepper spray all over me. My BP was 220/110. I never felt the BP cuff inflate. I was then put into a sheriff car. NOT handcuffed and taken to the station. |
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Took me a minute to find this, but here's a first-hand account from a member here (not me). I think it's relevant to the discussion...especially the first part of the story. My personal shooting. I was at home alone when I heard a vehicle pull up in my drive way. I looked out a window and witnessed a man putting on gloves. At the same time I heard a knock on my door, so I knew more than one guy. The ford explorer looked like a guys down the street that had been around, so I got up to answer the door. I walked by my cabinet by the front door cause something just didn't feel right. I was just in shorts and I put my .40cal S&W in my pocket. I made the mistake of cracking open the door to ask what the person needed. I should not have done this. As I opened the door a hand came in and sprayed me with pepper spray. I tried to close the door but the guy was already pushing it open. The force knocked me back into my house about 8 feet. I was almost blind but I was able to tuck myself over to block the view of myself pulling out my handgun. The guy was all over me spraying me in the face and about the head. I turned and put a round in his leg. Later I found out he was 6'5" and over 300lbs. I am 5'7" and 160. You get the picture. Anyway. He backed up away from me and I spun around and looked at him. It was very blurry but he was wearing a black tee shirt and holding something in his hand. He looked just like a black silhouette I shoot at the range. I put two in his chest and he dropped like a box of rocks. I spun to shoot the other guy but he was running out the door. No danger to me anymore. I ran and closed the front door and locked it. I then spun around and came back to the first guy. I couldn't see very well but I knew he was dying by the girgling noises he was making. I then stumbled down the hallway to my bedroom to get my cell phone and call 911. THAT WAS A BITCH! when you can't see your phone. My eyes were killing me. I finally got it and called. I told them everything that happened as well as I could and told them my handgun would be safe for when LEO got there. During this time I heard the other guy run back into the explorer and peel out. I then opened the front door to wait for help. The sheriff was there in I SHIT YOU NOT 30 seconds Then EMS about another 3 seconds. I was helped out to the side of the house and sat down and attented to by EMS. That is when the air hit my eyes and then I was blind. The pain was almost to much. The guy was dead on scene. I was helped into a ambulance and my eyes irrigated with saline. The EMS guys started to cough and gag cause of the pepper spray all over me. My BP was 220/110. I never felt the BP cuff inflate. I was then put into a sheriff car. NOT handcuffed and taken to the station. Good shoot, but like you imply it could have been prevented by not opening the damn door for anyone. |
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Thanks for the replies,
This story is exactly what I was talking about, I'm a big guy, but nothing as big as that invader I guess the best way is follow the rec. of those here I learned that at the bare min. have a conversation throught the door have a gun reinforce door then a camera as a side note to those who suggest shotguns, it appears that this BG might have been able to take the weapon away in this sit. what do you guys think |
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i think considering the close quarters nature of the situation a pistol is the better option. sometime i sling my AR across my chest, while holding my handgun in the hand not opening the door. even in the daytime i take a gun to the door, usually i may just leave it on the floor by the door, its not ideal but, while im more paranoid than most and constantly think of ways to prepare for things...i dont always practice what i preach.
you guys ever seen The Professional aka Leon? i like the idea of using the peep hole to look at the person and aiming THROUGH the door. if they try to ram it, kick it, or even shoot through it, at least you can match them with lead, just an idea 
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A few things to consider:
A long gun will get in your way in the OPs scenario. If someone busts through the door & is on top of you then any gun will get in the way. A gun is not the solution to someone climbing all over you trying to crush your skull with a tire iron or a meth-fueled session of fists of fury. |
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The first thing I'd do is reinforce the door... then get a camera installed. The first measure will slow down an attacker (or keep them out entirely if you harden that entrance point sufficiently), and the second will show you who is out there... that IS why you'd be opening the door, right? To find out who in the blue blazes is knocking on your door at 0-dark-thirty?
If I were opening the door to talk with the person (I wouldn't need to with my current setup, but we'll go with it for the sake of argument), I'd want a handgun. A long-gun is too awkward to use in such close quarters, and a handgun can be utilized from a tuck/retention position, and still allow you to put rounds on-target. The long-gun would be reserved for covering the door from a position of advantage should the bad guys attempt to kick it down. If something didn't smell right (or there was more than one individual out there), I would not approach the door. I'd observe them on my surveillance cameras while planning my next move. |
| if you live in an apartment id keep a shotgun handy with a lite load like 6s or something and a handgun for back up. yell through the door from across the room that way if they force the door the distance is your friend. a lite load in the shotgun will kill as easy as anything at close range but it wont retain enough energy to kill your neighbors or the guy laying in bed in the complex 1/2 a mile down the road like your .308 will. if you get an 870 or something you can get a short 18 or 20" barrel for it. they are great for home protection. if ya get startled awake or just the natural phases your body goes through in a stressful situation you can still opperate it and its just point and shoot you dont have to aim carefully. and if ya leave the safty off and drop the fireing pin on an empty chamber the sound of you racking a round in is the most intimidateing sound in the world. |
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if you live in an apartment id keep a shotgun handy with a lite load like 6s or something and a handgun for back up. yell through the door from across the room that way if they force the door the distance is your friend. a lite load in the shotgun will kill as easy as anything at close range but it wont retain enough energy to kill your neighbors or the guy laying in bed in the complex 1/2 a mile down the road like your .308 will. if you get an 870 or something you can get a short 18 or 20" barrel for it. they are great for home protection. if ya get startled awake or just the natural phases your body goes through in a stressful situation you can still opperate it and its just point and shoot you dont have to aim carefully. and if ya leave the safty off and drop the fireing pin on an empty chamber the sound of you racking a round in is the most intimidateing sound in the world. uhhh... 
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Sounds to me like the op is in college, living off campus. 2 am knocks on the door should not be that unusual if this is the case, especially if you knew your roommate was out drinking and should be coming home. 
By all means have a weapon on hand if bad stuff has been going down in your area, but it seems a bit excessive to me to be sighting down a long gun yelling from across the room in a situation like this, where the odds are your drunk roommate/girl/friends and going to come crashing in looking for a good time, not some gang-bangers. But maybe your school is different than mine... No need to flame, I just can't believe no-one else sees this as paranoid. 
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1:03 for the answer.
This is how you answer the door in my neighborhood |
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A hand gun in your hand is a great start. I would also harden my door with at least a chain lock. Replace the crappy crews it comes with with longer ones and get them nice and deep into the frame A hard kick from a big dude will snap most door chains. while you're at home depot buying the door chain pick up sme of those rubber door stops. If you stage one before you open the door itwill give you a few precious seconds when the bad guy tries to shove the door open
Really? You need to A) be more specific than that, and B) explain how you think a "rubber door stop" is going to get installed fast enough to slow a determined invader down. now go to the aisle with peepholes and buy one to install.
Right, so as soon as they see the light in the peephole darken, they bust a cap straight through the PH into your eye socket. And they then get inside how? 
"I'm dead, but dadgummit! They're not getting inside!"
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dont' be back lit so the don't know exactly when you are on the other side of the door from the peep hole/foot shadows.
Use a door chain or bettter yet the other type of thing that does the same thing that is solid they have at hotels. Reinforce the latch catches, hinge plates and the door frame itself &/or use a barracade bar type thing. (katy bar or home made w/ a 2X4 etc. Do not have a window on or next to door that someone can put their hand through to unlock. If there is said window, install a lock that requires a keep to turn from the inside or the outside, or remove the deadbolt turn handle. when you open the door a crack, put the outside of your foot and your shoulder behind the door and kind of peek around the door, that way if someone tries to burst the door open when you first start to open it you can blow back and get it closed or close it on their hand etc. I always open the door to an unknown like this any time of the day. I also always keep a pistol in my other hand behind my back. Just use a posture that keeps enable you to ram the door closed and keep your pistol hidden from sight wheter it be in hand or holster. In that circumstance there may be something to be said for not using an extended magazine. I think that a hand gun is also better than a long gun in this scenario as if it comes to shooting it will be contact shooting and you won't be able to really handle a long gun w/ one hand unless it is a P90 or Uzi or something balanced and short like that. |
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This was the beginning of a porno and you effed it up.. Ha!! I think a pistol with a REGULAR sized mag is plenty. If you need 30 rounds to take down 1-2 guys you need to invest more time in the range than in equipment. Pick a decent sized round (I prefer .40 S&W) and some good home defense rounds. Keep a full mag of HD rounds ready and like others have said, avoid opening the door until you know who it is. One thing I tend to do is peek through the peephole without making a sound and then stand to the side of the door. If they plan to shoot through the door then I'm out of the way. |
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This was the beginning of a porno and you effed it up.. Ha!! I think a pistol with a REGULAR sized mag is plenty. If you need 30 rounds to take down 1-2 guys you need to invest more time in the range than in equipment. Pick a decent sized round (I prefer .40 S&W) and some good home defense rounds. Keep a full mag of HD rounds ready and like others have said, avoid opening the door until you know who it is. One thing I tend to do is peek through the peephole without making a sound and then stand to the side of the door. If they plan to shoot through the door then I'm out of the way. First of all, why give the enemy a fair fight? Maybe the two at the front are there to distract you from the 4 at the back. Secondly, if it is your house, there is no reason you shouldn't have a RIFLE in your hands. I keep an Eagle LE/M4 shoulder strap mag pouch with two rifle and two 17 round pistol mags for when I have to check on anything suspicious with either a rifle or a pistol in my skivvies. |
| I like my steel door that opens out. I like my lighting. I like my view from the 2nd story. I would love to have a good camera system (we are moving soon). I like my .41 magnum or .45 Glock in my hand. I ask who it is if I don't know them. I call popo if it does not sound/look/smell right. I fire/reload/repeat as necessary if they enter my home. |
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I like my steel door that opens out. I like my lighting. I like my view from the 2nd story. I would love to have a good camera system (we are moving soon). I like my .41 magnum or .45 Glock in my hand. I ask who it is if I don't know them. I call popo if it does not sound/look/smell right. I fire/reload/repeat as necessary if they enter my home. If your door opens out, doesn't that expose the hinges to a BG on the outside? |
| Nobody knocks on my door at 2AM. I'm on a private street, so if this were to happen you better believe I'd be gun in hand. My first move would be to grab the glock, second would be to grab the AK out of the safe. AK would get leaned against the wall in the hallway not in direct sight where if I needed to grab it on the run I could. I'd take a look through the peep to make sure it wasn't a neighbor, without turning on any lights or making any obvious signs that I was home. If I didn't recognize I wouldn't open. I'd do a quick surveil of the house and backyard, then set up in a position where if they did intrude I'd be ready to protect myself and family. Give yourself the upper hand and the advantage of suprise from a stratgically superior location. I'm not Rambo. |
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I would NOT answer the door at 2AM; I would reinforce your doors but not with something as pitiful as a door chain. Do you realize how easy it is to kick a door in? I would definitely go with a camera and something like this to reinforce your door(s)...http://www.armorconcepts.com/
Then do a mag dump...
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