Posted: 1/10/2014 6:25:32 PM EDT
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With NYC going full retard and electing a communist mayor, I feel the time is right to move to separate. What can be done to propagate this idea? How can we get this proposal on the ballot in November?
I imagine a truly Free State where Constitution is the law of the land and where any infringements are punished by a lengthy prison sentence. Where there is no Medicaid, taxes are low and welfare only lasts 9 months. Where there's no affirmative action, no quotas, but everyone is encouraged to achieve their true potential. Where businesses can freely operate without paying government extortion fees. We can do it! We have industry, we have agriculture, we have nuclear plants, water, natural gas. Why are we staying subjects to the NYC hegemony? Fuck this! |
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Last year, Assemblyman Hawley was sponsoring legislation that would put the question of splitting the state up for a vote.
Bill: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00391 Some news coverage from last year: Hawley pushes two-state referendum Hawley will push ‘2 New Yorks’ bill That's all I know. |
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I think a lot about this. We will never get something like this through the legislature. We do not have any form of ballot initiative or voter referendum that can be initiated by the people. Any ballot items have to initiate through the state .gov, and they only put up what they (the city) want (casino gambling). The purposeful imbalance in the .leg means that the city will always win, and they will never do anything to allow that balance of power to fall back to the people in upstate.
I feel our best hope is through the counties. They have shown that they will oppose the state on the safe act, and can act independently of the goobernor. If the upstate county execs were to unite on this issue and state the intent to separate from the city I think we could get some traction on this. We also can more readily influence the makeup of local politics and impact local county legislatures then we can at a state level. That's not to say anything would come easy, and that there are not anti factions at work already at the local/county level. Look at Saratoga County and the recent Sheriff's race, County DA and Saratoga Mayoral race. In a county that is largely seen as republican, there is a whole host of dems and rinos running the show. We will either need to get a grip on the local republican committees, or actively and effectively organize a third party to get this done. Personally I feel the third party route is the way to go, and recent pols indicating more people are classifying themselves as independents would support this. |
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Good thing is, NYC might not be against this. There are plenty of people in NYC that think ofthe rest of the state as a money pit with a bunch of rednecks. So the split might be amicable. Exactly. NYC has discussed the idea before. In order for it to happen, those self-centered libs would have to believe that it would be beneficial to them. For example: A Secession Plan Is Floated for New York City |
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We need to get our ducks in a row upstate before any of this would do us any good. The upstate population seems to be centered around the cities/suburbs where guns aren't a part of people's everyday lives. They're more concerned about their commute, their kids, and crime in their communities as I see it. Erie county is dominated by Buffalo, Niagara county by Niagara Falls, Monroe county by Rochester, etc. (Not to mention their academic communites). Then we have to contend with our wives & loved ones who will vote liberally on social issues once their in the booth.
I have to deal with Mark Grisanti. He's a "republican" who voted for the monstrosity. He also voted for gay marriage. I don't care if homosexuals want to get married or stick it in each others asses. (Their rights in their home are not my concern, just like my guns aren't theirs). You should have heard all the soccer mom BS in my town about how he's a good catholic republican who votes for us with his conscience. That's his conscience not mine. He voted his constituents into criminals this time without concern for representing their expectations of him. He shirked his responsibility. We need to get rid of people like him from office and install candidates we can trust before we could ever move forward as a separate state. Otherwise it would most certainly just be more of the same. I find it ironic that most of the founding colonies/states are highly visible examples of how far our country has fallen from its values. |
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Another way to look at it…. I was reading elsewhere about the idea of breaking California up into 6 different states. When someone realized that would mean 12 US Senators from California. 
Schumer and 3 puppets instead of just one.  Not really. The whole idea is splitting would be because the separate parts AREN'T being represented by their current lawmakers. There would be all new ones more closely aligned to the ideals of their constituents. |
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We all love to blame nyc, but really this whole state is pretty much blue I don't think it's so much that andy won as that Carl lost. We need a candidate that has broader appeal while holding true to a core set of values. IMHO, Carl came off as bit of a crackpot, making him a "lesser of evils" choice vs a clear leader. As far as colored maps, look at the Pataki maps where the state was completely red. Pataki was a rino, but he carried the state on a republican line... Wiki NY election results ETA: Pataki even carried the state against daddy Mario. Look at the red on this map... Wiki NY results 1994 |
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It is not about voting. The state assembly has been dominated by NYC democrats since 1975 - almost 40 years. In case you missed it I will refer you to the 17 pages of batshit crazy anti-gun legislation posted in this thread, and that does not include all of the other insane things the assembly does that result in this state ranking dead last in almost every category. Under the current state government structure there is really no way of ever eliminating NYC's corrupt stronghold on the assembly.
Short of splitting the state, this problem will never be corrected, and many people know it. Looking at the 2010 numbers, we know that in a state with 11 million voters, less than half (under 5 million) participated. The blue maps may simply be a representation of disenfranchised republican voters staying home. NYC is the root of all evil, and this state will never have fair and equal representation as long as they are part of the equation. |
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The democrats have a huge liability going into this year's elections. Whether they are federal candidates or local, every single one of them needs to have Obamacare hung around their necks in big red letters. The message needs to be that "this is the party that killed health insurance in this country" even for the fucking dog catcher. We have only seen half of the package at this point, as they've tried to duck the employer mandate by pushing it off a year. Well, this is the year, and people need to start asking their employers early as to what they can expect, then howling like coyotes about the increase that is going to hit every single employer plan in the country.
Do it. Ask the question, then let all your coworkers, family, and friends know how you're getting fucked. In NY we can hit them again with unSafe, and use that to tighten the Obamacare noose. The party that wrecked healthcare, stole your money to give to the FSA and hijacked your constitutional freedoms like a terrorist in the night. That is a message. But we need candidates, and that is where we are weak. We need to form up the ticket early with a governor, lt governor and attorney general right now, and let them hammer away all summer. If its Astorino with McLaughlin for Lt, that wouldn't be a bad start, but we need a good AG, and we need to get on with it. FUAC and FU Schneiderman. |
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Republican voters don't vote in this state. Too many dummies think their vote doesn't count and they stay home. Unless upstate voters get motivated and vote in elections, things will not change. Until we get term limits, the right to force recall elections and stop the gerrymandering of legislative districts that keep these shitstains in office nothing will change. Do you really believe they changed all the voting machines to electronic for any reason other than to rig the system? |
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Not really. The whole idea is splitting would be because the separate parts AREN'T being represented by their current lawmakers. There would be all new ones more closely aligned to the ideals of their constituents. Quoted:
Not really. The whole idea is splitting would be because the separate parts AREN'T being represented by their current lawmakers. There would be all new ones more closely aligned to the ideals of their constituents. Unless you can make Albany, B-flo, Rochester, handful of other similar places and every place that's got a university in it leave along with NYC, that's still going to be a real uphill battle. Quoted:
ETA: Pataki even carried the state against daddy Mario. Look at the red on this map... I think that had more to do with Mario than it did George. (people were going to vote for Howard Stern rather than Mario) |
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im one who believes this state is irrepairable and broken like much of the rest of the country we are blue throughout the state due to free shit being offered by both parties. its not just the guns, fear of those that are armed is a symptom of the when the political masters know that a house of cards has a good chance of falling and there will be angry people with guns out there.the fact that the courts go along with it even though they are charged with enterpreting the law and use ever more convoluted reasoning to justify acts of the legislature would seem to indicate that there is no consequences to their actions. adolf hitler was a elected using the laws of germany and all was legal and aboveboard until he seized power by eliminating any and all rights once again using the law, we are going through the same thingnow watching our opponents use the law to seize power permanently, to convince those who disagree that they will never be free to exercise their rights here and so should leave. those who choose to stay and fight will be criminalized and marginalized and offerred seriously whackjob opponents to vote for so that by being in the same party they appear to be as nuts as them.
there is no hope left here. the republicans in nys keep nominating idiots and i believe that they are doing so deliberately because both parties here are one and the same no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise, they share the same policies and beliefs and even place other party members on their line. they do not mount a cogent reason to be voted for because there is none. with all the people upstate supposedly enraged by the new ammo rules, we wont even talk about the loss of the ability to own semiautomattic weapons that are not politically correct, one might suppose that the republican party might find a successful business leader who would take this state in a sensible new direction but they are unable to even do that, could it be there are no successful people in nys? could it be that there is noone successful that isnt a liberal in nys? could it be that the repulican party isnt interested in fielding a viable candidate because they might have to govern again and we would find that like pataki there is no love of freedom in the republican party in nys? i am one of those that no longer goes out and votes i am tired of being given a choice between adolf hitler and mussolini and being told that i need to vote for mussolini because hitler is bad. when i am no longer required to live in this state i will leave and go where they still have a glimmer of freedom left. i am allowed to own all the bad things that noone is trusted with because i took a test and a oath. its a damn shame that the empire state has come to this. |
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Not really. The whole idea is splitting would be because the separate parts AREN'T being represented by their current lawmakers. There would be all new ones more closely aligned to the ideals of their constituents. Unless you can make Albany, B-flo, Rochester, handful of other similar places and every place that's got a university in it leave along with NYC, that's still going to be a real uphill battle. There is a big difference between upstate urban areas, which generally share a county with suburban and rural areas, and NYC, which has a substantially higher population and is comprised of 5 complete counties full of multiple generations people who have been deprived of their rights and freedoms. Or you want the numbers: 5 boroughs of NYC: 8,336,697 Compare that to: Albany: 97,904 Syracuse:144,170 Rochester: 210,532 Buffalo: 259,384 etc. |
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There is a big difference between upstate urban areas, which generally share a county with suburban and rural areas, and NYC, which has a substantially higher population and is comprised of 5 complete counties full of multiple generations people who have been deprived of their rights and freedoms. Or you want the numbers: 5 boroughs of NYC: 8,336,697 Compare that to: Albany: 97,904 Syracuse:144,170 Rochester: 210,532 Buffalo: 259,384 etc. Quoted:
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Not really. The whole idea is splitting would be because the separate parts AREN'T being represented by their current lawmakers. There would be all new ones more closely aligned to the ideals of their constituents. Unless you can make Albany, B-flo, Rochester, handful of other similar places and every place that's got a university in it leave along with NYC, that's still going to be a real uphill battle. There is a big difference between upstate urban areas, which generally share a county with suburban and rural areas, and NYC, which has a substantially higher population and is comprised of 5 complete counties full of multiple generations people who have been deprived of their rights and freedoms. Or you want the numbers: 5 boroughs of NYC: 8,336,697 Compare that to: Albany: 97,904 Syracuse:144,170 Rochester: 210,532 Buffalo: 259,384 etc. Excellent point, cut off the head and the snake dies. |
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Good thing is, NYC might not be against this. There are plenty of people in NYC that think ofthe rest of the state as a money pit with a bunch of rednecks. So the split might be amicable. Not while all the water in NYC comes from Upstate. DEP patrols are more common that sheriffs these days in the Catskills |
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Not while all the water in NYC comes from Upstate. DEP patrols are more common that sheriffs these days in the Catskills Quoted:
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Good thing is, NYC might not be against this. There are plenty of people in NYC that think ofthe rest of the state as a money pit with a bunch of rednecks. So the split might be amicable. Not while all the water in NYC comes from Upstate. DEP patrols are more common that sheriffs these days in the Catskills A price increase is LONG overdue . A BIG one . |
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A price increase is LONG overdue . A BIG one . Quoted:
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Good thing is, NYC might not be against this. There are plenty of people in NYC that think ofthe rest of the state as a money pit with a bunch of rednecks. So the split might be amicable. Not while all the water in NYC comes from Upstate. DEP patrols are more common that sheriffs these days in the Catskills A price increase is LONG overdue . A BIG one . What price? The water is free and they maintain a tight grip on the watershed so they do not have to pay to treat it. That option has flown the coop long ago. The counties with the reservoirs were sold down the river long ago when they gave up that land to NYC. No one upstate gets any $ per gallon for that water. |
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What price? The water is free and they maintain a tight grip on the watershed so they do not have to pay to treat it. That option has flown the coop long ago. The counties with the reservoirs were sold down the river long ago when they gave up that land to NYC. No one upstate gets any $ per gallon for that water. Quoted:
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Good thing is, NYC might not be against this. There are plenty of people in NYC that think ofthe rest of the state as a money pit with a bunch of rednecks. So the split might be amicable. Not while all the water in NYC comes from Upstate. DEP patrols are more common that sheriffs these days in the Catskills A price increase is LONG overdue . A BIG one . What price? The water is free and they maintain a tight grip on the watershed so they do not have to pay to treat it. That option has flown the coop long ago. The counties with the reservoirs were sold down the river long ago when they gave up that land to NYC. No one upstate gets any $ per gallon for that water. Not to mention that NYC buys land at 20x the value then turns it over to DEC so they don't have to pay taxes. |
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Quoted: There is an upside to living on Long Island with this! Thanks CAS Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm…. you'd get to keep Albany and Cuomo. I'm all for it. There is an upside to living on Long Island with this! Thanks CAS  ETA: Saw the maps. Maps change. More people pissed off at him now. Channel 10 in Rochester is even taking stabs at him. |
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Nice area code post (585) 
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We all love to blame nyc, but really this whole state is pretty much blue I'm willing to take my chances with a split. Fuck NYC.
You guys are closer than I thought. <----- Also a 585er. |