Posted: 2/28/2011 9:28:23 AM EDT
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So this guy I work with does some bodyguarding on the side. He has I believe an armed guard permit. He got a gig in Albany 2 weeks ago. His FFL is Coliseum Gun Traders. They told him that he needs to give them his pistol and $150 and they will send it to an FFL down in Albany because he can't take the pistol out of Nassau. The FFL in Albany then charged him $100 to "transfer" the pistol back to him. The whole scheme sounds like a biggest scam I've ever heard of. Even if the guy had to travel through Jersey or NYC, he still would have been legal is the pistol was in a locked box with ammo separated.
Am I missing something here? |
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 You can travel through New York City with a firearm if you are just travelling through it. I forget the exact wording of the law but it has to be in a locked case or something. I think it's in the New York City Administrative Code somewhere.I believe that NYC goes so far as to say "locked METAL container" whereas NYS doesn't specify metal. |
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Quoted: Quoted: You can travel through New York City with a firearm if you are just travelling through it. I forget the exact wording of the law but it has to be in a locked case or something. I think it's in the New York City Administrative Code somewhere.I believe that NYC goes so far as to say "locked METAL container" whereas NYS doesn't specify metal. I don't know of any New York State law that requires firearms to be in any kind of container. |
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You can travel through New York City with a firearm if you are just travelling through it. I forget the exact wording of the law but it has to be in a locked case or something. I think it's in the New York City Administrative Code somewhere.I believe that NYC goes so far as to say "locked METAL container" whereas NYS doesn't specify metal. I don't know of any New York State law that requires firearms to be in any kind of container. true I was refering to travel through. |
(1) Non-residents in transit. Any other provision of this chapter |
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http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menuf.cgi whoops that's not it, well he better look it up himself  Try Penal Law 400 (6)ch license to carry or possess shall be valid within the city of New York in the absence of a permit |
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If he has a Nassau CCW he can take his pistol anywhere in the state except NYC I believe. Looks like Andy needs lawyer money. Andy might need lawyer money, but he shouldn't be getting it through scamming people. Maybe they will donate to his defense fund voluntarily if he treats them honestly. I was shocked when the guy told me it cost him $250 just to take his pistol to Albany. What if he was traveling through Jersey? |
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It's hard to believe that someone who has gone through the extra required training / certifications to be Licensed in NYS as an Armed Security Guard (I'M Licensed NYS Armed SecGuard) would not know the current NYS Penal Law... Most 47hr Firearms Cert classes for Armed guards give you a copy, and you should be sending for the annual supplement each year as Laws do change.
If your 'friend' was foolish enough to pay to have his pistol shipped to himself anywhere, he needs to educate himself. He is "responsible" enough to enforce some laws, yet doesn't know the laws that Directly impact his chosen profession.    even as a side job.
I believe Fed Law allows the transportation of a Firearms throughout the country, cased / locked and unloaded w/ ammo stored serately. (usually in the trunk, ie: car) |
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Quoted: What if he was traveling through Jersey? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act However my concern with NJ (and theoretically with NYC also) would be what happens if he has hi cap mags or JHP rounds? These statutes usually only protect possession of the firearm itself.
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What if he was traveling through Jersey? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act However my concern with NJ (and theoretically with NYC also) would be what happens if he has hi cap mags or JHP rounds? These statutes usually only protect possession of the firearm itself. Know the Laws., as you do, because you mention exact concerns for the state of NJ. If traveling through NJ, keep FMJ ammo and hide HP's somewhere completed seperate. Hi Caps would need to be Pre-ban for him either way. Although 15round is legal in NJ. |
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Quoted: I don't know NJ law but are you saying that he should break NJ law by hiding illegal ammunition in his car?Quoted: Quoted: What if he was traveling through Jersey? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act However my concern with NJ (and theoretically with NYC also) would be what happens if he has hi cap mags or JHP rounds? These statutes usually only protect possession of the firearm itself. Know the Laws., as you do, because you mention exact concerns for the state of NJ. If traveling through NJ, keep FMJ ammo and hide HP's somewhere completed seperate. Hi Caps would need to be Pre-ban for him either way. Although 15round is legal in NJ. Hint-there is one correct answer to this question |
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why would make you mention JHP ammo in NJ if you didn't know the NJ law?
No, I'm telling him to educate himself and make a choice. I'd choose powerball or FMJ for NJ. but you can't be stopping in NJ anyway, unless you have a permit from there... **I heard last night, haven't checked yet, that you can actually get a NJ permit for your pistol to carry legally through... I don't believe it though** |
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It's hard to believe that someone who has gone through the extra required training / certifications to be Licensed in NYS as an Armed Security Guard (I'M Licensed NYS Armed SecGuard) would not know the current NYS Penal Law... Most 47hr Firearms Cert classes for Armed guards give you a copy, and you should be sending for the annual supplement each year as Laws do change. If your 'friend' was foolish enough to pay to have his pistol shipped to himself anywhere, he needs to educate himself. He is "responsible" enough to enforce some laws, yet doesn't know the laws that Directly impact his chosen profession. even as a side job.
I believe Fed Law allows the transportation of a Firearms throughout the country, cased / locked and unloaded w/ ammo stored serately. (usually in the trunk, ie: car) I agree with your statement. However, it's still unethical for an FFL to take advantage of someone who doesn't know. He said he's been going to Coliseum for years and fully trusts them. So much for trust, huh? |
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It's hard to believe that someone who has gone through the extra required training / certifications to be Licensed in NYS as an Armed Security Guard (I'M Licensed NYS Armed SecGuard) would not know the current NYS Penal Law... Most 47hr Firearms Cert classes for Armed guards give you a copy, and you should be sending for the annual supplement each year as Laws do change. If your 'friend' was foolish enough to pay to have his pistol shipped to himself anywhere, he needs to educate himself. He is "responsible" enough to enforce some laws, yet doesn't know the laws that Directly impact his chosen profession. even as a side job.
I believe Fed Law allows the transportation of a Firearms throughout the country, cased / locked and unloaded w/ ammo stored serately. (usually in the trunk, ie: car) I agree with your statement. However, it's still unethical for an FFL to take advantage of someone who doesn't know. He said he's been going to Coliseum for years and fully trusts them. So much for trust, huh? It's Completely unethical if the actions taken by Coliseum, you mention are true! I believe in operating w/ Integrity, no matter the circumstance! Someone being NYS Licensed as an Armed Sec Guard, not knowing the Law is also a disgrace & I'd be concerned if he were a partner / coworker of mine. |
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If this really occurred I'd like to know how the Albany FFL transferred the pistol back to him without a purchase coupon issued by his licensing officer. How did he transport it back from Albany? ARTICLE 400 LICENSING AND OTHER PROVISIONS RELATING TO FIREARMS |
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I will ask the guy tomorrow about his trip back, but I'm pretty sure he had the Albany FFL ship it back to Coliseum that "transferred" it back to him.
As far as the "transfers" go, if the pistol is already on his permit they wouldn't need a purchase coupon. I believe the story since the guy has no reason to lie. He mentioned the whole thing as a part of a routine conversation about his trip. |
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why would make you mention JHP ammo in NJ if you didn't know the NJ law? No, I'm telling him to educate himself and make a choice. I'd choose powerball or FMJ for NJ. but you can't be stopping in NJ anyway, unless you have a permit from there... **I heard last night, haven't checked yet, that you can actually get a NJ permit for your pistol to carry legally through... I don't believe it though** I believe the NJ State Police strongly urges non-residents of NJ (or new residents who already have guns in their possession) to obtain a NJ Firearms ID card to avoid just these kinds of problems...since we all know FOPA is ignored all too often in NY and NJ. And to keep on topic...this whole "transfer" scheme is BS...unless your friend has a PREMISE/BUSINESS ONLY permit of some kind... but being a guard, I don't think so. |
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Quoted: If this really occurred I'd like to know how the Albany FFL transferred the pistol back to him without a purchase coupon issued by his licensing officer. How did he transport it back from Albany? You know, I never thought about it, but if you use an ffl to ship something to yourself what do they do when you get there? Have you do another 4473? Toss it to you and wink? |
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If this really occurred I'd like to know how the Albany FFL transferred the pistol back to him without a purchase coupon issued by his licensing officer. How did he transport it back from Albany? You know, I never thought about it, but if you use an ffl to ship something to yourself what do they do when you get there? Have you do another 4473? Toss it to you and wink? I mean if the handgun is listed on your permit, serial number and all, they shoudn't give you any problems...But this guy shouldn't need to "ship it to himself" in the first place. |
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Quoted: Oh that part is bullshit, I was talking about something elseQuoted: Quoted: If this really occurred I'd like to know how the Albany FFL transferred the pistol back to him without a purchase coupon issued by his licensing officer. How did he transport it back from Albany? You know, I never thought about it, but if you use an ffl to ship something to yourself what do they do when you get there? Have you do another 4473? Toss it to you and wink? I mean if the handgun is listed on your permit, serial number and all, they shoudn't give you any problems...But this guy shouldn't need to "ship it to himself" in the first place. |
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Quoted: As far as the "transfers" go, if the pistol is already on his permit they wouldn't need a purchase coupon. AFAIK that is not correct. The receiving NYS Dealer in firearms can't just say "here's your handgun and have a nice day" when it was transferred from another FFL/NYS Dealer in Firearms. 12. Records required of gunsmiths and dealers in firearms. Any person licensed as gunsmith or dealer in firearms shall keep a record book approved as to form, except in the city of New York, by the superintendent of state police. In the record book shall be entered at the time of every transaction involving a firearm the date, name, age, occupation and residence of any person from whom a firearm is received or to whom a firearm is delivered, and the calibre, make, model, manufacturer`s name and serial number, or if none, any other distinguishing number or identification mark on such firearm. Before delivering a firearm to any person, the licensee shall require him to produce either a license valid under this section to carry or possess the same, or proof of lawful authority as an exempt person pursuant to section 265.20. In addition, before delivering a firearm to a peace officer, the licensee shall verify that person`s status as a peace officer with the division of state police. After completing the foregoing, the licensee shall remove and retain the attached coupon and enter in the record book the date of such license, number, if any, and name of the licensing officer, in the case of the holder of a license to carry or possess, or the shield or other number, if any, assignment and department, unit or agency, in the case of an exempt person. The original transaction report shall be forwarded to the division of state police within ten days of delivering a firearm to any person, and a duplicate copy shall be kept by the licensee. The record book shall be maintained on the premises mentioned and described in the license and shall be open at all reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties, or police officer. In the event of cancellation or revocation of the license for gunsmith or dealer in firearms, or discontinuance of business by a licensee, such record book shall be immediately surrendered to the licensing officer in the city of New York, and in the counties of Nassau and Suffolk, and elsewhere in the state to the executive department, division of state police. |
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Quoted: I mean if the handgun is listed on your permit, serial number and all, they shoudn't give you any problems...But this guy shouldn't need to "ship it to himself" in the first place. He disposed of the gun to the to the shipping FFL and acquired the gun from the receiving FFL. Let's not even get into the implications of the unauthorized disposition/acquisition issues that his licensing agency would have have with this scenario. You can ship a handgun to a licensed gunsmith for repair or customization and the gunsmith can ship it directly back to you but this involved an uninvolved third party dealer. |
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A security guard permit is restricted. Maybe he was mixing biz with pleasure, some ice fishing, a couple shows at Times Union, whatever. He can't carry when he is not working or going to/from.[le [/left] In order to recieve an Armed Security Guard License in NYS, you must 1st have a pistol license. Depending on where in NYS you get your license, you may need to get the Pistol License amended . If you're in Nassau Co. like myself, you start w/ a "Target/Hunting" License, then you have it amended once you're hired as an Armed Sec Guard. If you live in an area further North where you may have an Unrestricted Pistol License, no further amendments need to be made. NYS Sec Guard Licenses look very similar to NYS Drivers Licenses. You have to carry both, NYS Pistol License & NYS Armed Security Guard License when working. But, would still have the same rights to transport his firearms. Armed Sec. Guard amendments to your Pistol License does not turn your carry license, no matter how restricted, into a premise license. He can't 'carry' it, but can transport it and keep it in a 'safe' place in accordance with the law. |
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A security guard permit is restricted. Maybe he was mixing biz with pleasure, some ice fishing, a couple shows at Times Union, whatever. He can't carry when he is not working or going to/from.[le [/left] In order to recieve an Armed Security Guard License in NYS, you must 1st have a pistol license. Depending on where in NYS you get your license, you may need to get the Pistol License amended . If you're in Nassau Co. like myself, you start w/ a "Target/Hunting" License, then you have it amended once you're hired as an Armed Sec Guard. If you live in an area further North where you may have an Unrestricted Pistol License, no further amendments need to be made. NYS Sec Guard Licenses look very similar to NYS Drivers Licenses. You have to carry both, NYS Pistol License & NYS Armed Security Guard License when working. But, would still have the same rights to transport his firearms. Armed Sec. Guard amendments to your Pistol License does not turn your carry license, no matter how restricted, into a premise license. He can't 'carry' it, but can transport it and keep it in a 'safe' place in accordance with the law. That's exactly what this gentleman told me. He first got his Nassau Co PP and then an Armed Guard License. I will find out the details of the transaction tomorrow when I see him. I'm really curious how this thing went down. |
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That's exactly what this gentleman told me. He first got his Nassau Co PP and then an Armed Guard License. I will find out the details of the transaction tomorrow when I see him. I'm really curious how this thing went down. I'm curious as well. I was about to purchase a couple of guns from Coliseum, but if they're playing games... |
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Got some more details. The guy turned his pistol to the Coliseum, they gave him a receipt. He drove to Albany, went to the FFL there, showed them the receipt, they gave him the pistol. One the way back he did the same thing,
I know Coliseum Gun Traders are in trouble with the investigation and all. I wouldn't want to create a negative publicity in light of all of this. However, what they did was a scam. Maybe someone can mention this to them and explain that this kind of behavior is unethical and won't be tolerated. |
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Quoted: Got some more details. The guy turned his pistol to the Coliseum, they gave him a receipt. He drove to Albany, went to the FFL there, showed them the receipt, they gave him the pistol. One the way back he did the same thing, Quoted: Yes he did. When he returned, he showed them the receipt and they gave his pistol back to him. |
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This whole thing just doesn't make sense. I feel like some important details are being omitted.
Even if Coliseum was running a scam and telling this guy that he needed to have the move to Albany go through an FFL, why charge $150? That's way above their usual transfer fee. Even if you add in shipping, it wouldn't be anywhere near that. Now suppose they are running a scam, and decided to rip this guy off for as much as they could squeeze, and actually did charge him the $150. Why would the Albany FFL charge $100, which again is way above the going rate? Are we supposed to believe that the two shops are somehow in cahoots with each other because Nassau County to Albany is an established lucrative gun transfer route? I'm gonna hold off on buying my guns from Coliseum until I figure out what's going on to my satisfaction, but this whole thing just doesn't pass the "smell test" to me. I would think that the last thing that a guy with pending, and well publicised, charges hanging over his head would do is rip off a Customer, potentially bringing even more unwanted attention from the County D.A.. There's something going on around here, and what it is ain't exactly clear. |