Posted: 5/4/2010 12:45:11 PM EDT
| What is considered justified,when deadly force is used?If some one breaks into your residence and you shoot them are you going to go to jail? |
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What is considered justified,when deadly force is used?If some one breaks into your residence and you shoot them are you going to go to jail? Are you in reasonable fear for your life or the life of a third party? Is deadly force necessary to eliminate an IMMINENT threat to life? |
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What is considered justified,when deadly force is used?If some one breaks into your residence and you shoot them are you going to go to jail? Its been awhile since I read article 35 so dont quote me but I believe that you have an obligation to exhaust all other options before employing the use of deadly force. Exhausting all other options would entail things like: escaping or running away from the threat if possible, declaring your presence and or/the presence of the pistol in your hand, etc It also depends on how much you cry, tremble and carry on about how you were afraid for your life when the police show up. Its tough to imagine a grand jury handing down a charge on a lawful homeowner minding their own business inside of their house if someone broke in and didnt relent or turn around and runaway upon becoming aware of the fact that there was a person there. |
| This is not legal advice and do not rely on it, it is merely for discussion purposes: Make sure he is in the house, that he has a weapon, that all the rounds entered the alleged perp from the front and most importantly that he is dead so only your story gets told. When you call 911 and the investigating officers arrive make sure to tell them that "he said he was going to kill me" and I was in fear for my life. Then lawyer up. Depending on the locality and the political leanings of the DA you may still be arrested and charged even in the case of what most people would call a "good shoot". Just because you are acquitted by a jury of your peers (remember who is on most juries) you will still have spent a great deal of money to secure your freedom. There is also the good likelihood that his survivors will sue you civilly for wrongful death of their "little angel". In most cases discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to using deadly force in New York State even LEO's know this to be true in the performance of their duties. |
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You have no duty or obligation to retreat in your OWN home. True but If you show that you tried it will be in your favor. Also if you were found giving medical treatment when police/EMS arrived will also look good for you. Either way if you use your weapon be prepared to be involved in a civil suit. |
| I believe there are certain enumerated crimes that justify the use of deadly force to stop them (including arson, I don't recall the others). Otherwise I think you need at least a reasonable belief deadly force was about to be used against you or someone else. You also need to retreat if you can do so safely, unless you are in your home. Beyond not retreating you still need to be justified in your home. Bear in mind that if somebody is literally on the threshold of your open front door threatening deadly force, you need to retreat or wait until he come in before you can use deadly force (actual NY case). |
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Quoted: I believe there are certain enumerated crimes that justify the use of deadly force to stop them (including arson, I don't recall the others). Otherwise I think you need at least a reasonable belief deadly force was about to be used against you or someone else. You also need to retreat if you can do so safely, unless you are in your home. Beyond not retreating you still need to be justified in your home. Bear in mind that if somebody is literally on the threshold of your open front door threatening deadly force, you need to retreat or wait until he come in before you can use deadly force (actual NY case). Forcible rape, kidnapping, arson of an occupied dwelling, if someone is using or attempting to use deadly (physical) force against you, etc. Now if there is an passive, uninvited person in your dwelling, what can you do? Nothing, you say? Wrong. You can use PHYSICAL FORCE to eject that person from your dwelling. Physical force is that force such that use would not generally result in serious and/or debilitating injury, or lead to death. /ml |
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Quoted: This is not legal advice and do not rely on it, it is merely for discussion purposes: Make sure he is in the house, that he has a weapon, that all the rounds entered the alleged perp from the front and most importantly that he is dead so only your story gets told. When you call 911 and the investigating officers arrive make sure to tell them that "he said he was going to kill me" and I was in fear for my life. Then lawyer up. Depending on the locality and the political leanings of the DA you may still be arrested and charged even in the case of what most people would call a "good shoot". Just because you are acquitted by a jury of your peers (remember who is on most juries) you will still have spent a great deal of money to secure your freedom. There is also the good likelihood that his survivors will sue you civilly for wrongful death of their "little angel". In most cases discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to using deadly force in New York State even LEO's know this to be true in the performance of their duties. It is actually horrible advice. 1. Yes, if the person is not in your dwelling, and you are inside your dwelling, and they are not attempting to torch the place down, rape your wife/brother/kid; kidnap a juvenile family member/etc - whatever non lethal activity they are conducting, call the cops and MAYBE tell them the police are on the way.N 2. No weapon is necessary for the aggressor to have. 3. Is someone pointed a gun at me, and fired a shot while I was in my home, it is very likely I am not going to be standing around to deliver shots to COM. I will be aiming for the largest visible/known COM area. If that is back of head, back, left armpit, guts - so be it. 4. You don't shoot to make sure the perp is dead. You use deadly physical force until the treat has been eliminated. 5. make sure to tell them that "he said he was going to kill me"  . That was funny. Except when your 3 different neighbors tell the po-po something different than your fabrication6. Lawyer up. Sure. In the real world, circumstances drive the tactics we employ, not a script. I know you said it was for shits-n-giggles, but most of it is giggle free. What's left? /ml |
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Either way if you use your weapon be prepared to be involved in a civil suit. Does anyone have any examples of this happening, like news articles or whatever? I can't ever remember seeing one outside of this site where everyone seems to think it happens all the time. I think this is an urban legend. This is an interesting case that's moving through the courts here locally. |
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Quoted: Quoted: You have no duty or obligation to retreat in your OWN home. True but If you show that you tried it will be in your favor. Also if you were found giving medical treatment when police/EMS arrived will also look good for you. Either way if you use your weapon be prepared to be involved in a civil suit. That's a good way to get yourself killed and could actually work against you in a criminal/civil prosecution. You need to speak to your personal attorney and follow his advice as to what to do if you are involved in DPF incident. |
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as directly defined by law;
§ 35.15 of the Penal Code 2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless: (a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no duty to retreat if he or she is: (i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter's direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or (b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal sexual act or robbery; or (c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20. and subdivision 3 of section 35.20 reads; 3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to
be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary. and you can kill to prevent arson aswell; 1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he or
she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises. Such person may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and may use deadly physical force if he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson. |
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You have no duty or obligation to retreat in your OWN home. True but If you show that you tried it will be in your favor. Also if you were found giving medical treatment when police/EMS arrived will also look good for you. Either way if you use your weapon be prepared to be involved in a civil suit. If you don't have medical training there is no reason to attempt to help the criminal. You call 911, call your lawyer to get your defense together as well as a lawsuit against the criminal and file a civil suit against him/his family.. |
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Quoted: If you don't have medical training there is no reason to attempt to help the criminal. You call 911, call your lawyer to get your defense together as well as a lawsuit against the criminal and file a civil suit against him/his family.. I'm not aware of any LEA that requires its officer's that were directly involved in a DPF incident to render first aid to a subject that seconds before was attempting to murder them. There is a reason for that policy. |
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And keep your mouth shut until your lawyer arrives? Gospel. Invest the time in this vid. Shut up. Don't run at the mouth. Don't allow a spouse or family member to run at the mouth. Don't claim chest pain. Don't lie. Ever. "Officer, I'm under a lot of stress right now and I don't want to make a statement until I can calm down and discuss this with my lawyer." |