Posted: 1/25/2010 4:41:08 PM EDT
|
So, I am looking to purchase my first AR15. My budget is ~1500 and that is a firm cap with me really wanting to spend around 1000-1200 so I can have more money for ammo/range time. Since I am in a ban state my options for buying a complete rifle are fairly limited. The top three options when it comes to complete rifles are:
In price order: Bushmaster Post Ban Carbine with detachable carry handle S&W MP15 Post Ban Carbine with detachable carry handle Colt MT6400C Part of me says to grab the bushmaster for ~950 OTD and get myself to the range. The other part says go with the colt because they are a brand associated with high quality products but the price difference is about $300. I hear mixed reviews on bushmaster stuff but none from people who actually own the guns so their opinions really don't hold much value to me. My other option is to piece together an AR. My only issue with that is that while I would love to piece together a rifle I really don't even know what I like/dislike so its hard to really decide what type of rifle to piece together. And the other issue is that once I start buying things piecemeal my $1500 rifle turns into a $2500 rifle. Ideas? Opinions? |
|
Quoted:
Part of me says to grab the bushmaster for ~950 OTD and get myself to the range. The other part says go with the colt because they are a brand associated with high quality products but the price difference is about $300. I hear mixed reviews on bushmaster stuff but none from people who actually own the guns so their opinions really don't hold much value to me. Ideas? Opinions? Not everything you read on this site from the gun snobs should be taken toooo seriously. I have a Bushmaster M4...same as you described: "detach carry handle" NY ban compliant. I absolutely love it. Been 100% perfect. Shoots great...no hiccups what so ever. What is your intended purpose for the gun. Just want one cuz you like them (like me)...Are you a range guy? Will it be a duty weapon? Or are you one of these AR-15.com guys who paints their face black and crawl around at night in the backyard with a chest rig full of loaded mags, and night vision...in search of the enemy woodchuck who is threatening the well being of your family...Those are the guys who NEED the 2k gun ya know! 
|
|
Who said anything about "needing" to spend $2k? Noone. One of my 2 Noveske has a CMMG lower so it is a hybrid. Initial cost of the N4 basic upper (came with Troy Buis), CMMG lower, LPK, grip, stock and sling was around $1200 shipped. For a little more, why not get something a little better with better QC and accuracy? You don't have to be an operator to deserve something a little nicer.
Having said that: I've added a T1, BAD, Magpul trigger guard, light, VFG and rail . Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
My point was to mention to the OP that if he had his eye on any rifle out there he could have it be modded to be compliant, that he wasn't stuck with models that are set up already as compliant. You can't beat that Colt as Jcrowl has mentioned. He would definitely know as he owns atleast 1 Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| I say build your own. If you really cant do it yourself, ask around in the New York home town forum. I am sure other members who live close to you would help you out for some pizza and beer. (I am on Long Island. I would help ya build one if your local). I personally own a Bushmaster and it is one of my most reliable AR's. It eats whatever shitty Russian ammo I feed it. I would'nt hesitate to but another one. I dont own any Colts (no Kool Aid for me yet) so I can not comment on that. |
|
Building it myself is not an issue. Its a fairly simple process and my friend who just built his can lend me all the specific tools. I just need to decide what type of setup I want to go with and decide on a firm budget for the build.
The other issue is the wait. I can have the busy, S&W and prolly the Colt by weds... building my own will take atleast a month with having to wait on deliveries and such. |
|
Well it wouldn't take that long for it to be delivered but I was thinking about the whole process of ordering and getting everything in and then I'd have to send the barrel and comp out to be pinned and welded. I might have to give adco a call tomorrow though as it looks like they can do everything required to make a non compliant rifle compliant.
In the mean time I guess I can put together a build list. |
|
"Don't settle for Bushy?" Are you serious? Have you even ever owned a Bushmaster?
I have had the same Bushmaster lower with two Bushmaster uppers(all stock) for over 10 years with countless thousands of rounds and guess what? Not a single issue. Nothing has ever broken, it goes bang every single time no matter what ammo i used. To the OP, I would get a crowned barrel instead of one with a brake or comp permanently attached. This will be less annoying and give you more options to change front sight bases in the future if you so decide. I would also go for the lightest barrel I can get, like the Bushmaster superlight. Remember you can order it crowned. A light AR is much more of a pleasure to shoot. |
|
Quoted:
So, I am looking to purchase my first AR15. My budget is ~1500 and that is a firm cap with me really wanting to spend around 1000-1200 so I can have more money for ammo/range time. Since I am in a ban state my options for buying a complete rifle are fairly limited. The top three options when it comes to complete rifles are: In price order: Bushmaster Post Ban Carbine with detachable carry handle S&W MP15 Post Ban Carbine with detachable carry handle Colt MT6400C Part of me says to grab the bushmaster for ~950 OTD and get myself to the range. The other part says go with the colt because they are a brand associated with high quality products but the price difference is about $300. I hear mixed reviews on bushmaster stuff but none from people who actually own the guns so their opinions really don't hold much value to me. My other option is to piece together an AR. My only issue with that is that while I would love to piece together a rifle I really don't even know what I like/dislike so its hard to really decide what type of rifle to piece together. And the other issue is that once I start buying things piecemeal my $1500 rifle turns into a $2500 rifle. Pardon me, but after buying a Colt Sporter in the mid 90's for more than $800 and getting a 20" HBAR that wouldn't shoot a 5" 5 shot group at 100 yards I have a strong disdain for COLT despite the fact that they are a CT based company. Here is how I would build a rifle that should come in at $1000-$1200 minus optics. Bravo Company 16 inch government profile barrel w/carbine length gas Bravo Company Upper Receiver with M-4 cuts Bravo Company Auto BCG Bravo Company Gun Fighter Charging Handle PWS TTO Compensator Yankee Hill Machine Diamond Series Railed Handguard YHM Single Rail or Multi Rail Gas Block LMT or CMT/ Stag Lower Parts Kit Mega or Stag Lower receiver Bill Springfield Trigger Job or RRA Two Stage Trigger Cav Arms A-1 Buttstock -Rifle Buffer Tube-Rifle Bufer and Spring OR LE Tactical Buttstock which includes Buufer tue, buffer & spring plus DPMS Buttsotck Extension YHM, Troy, MI or GGG Flip up Front & rear sights |
|
Yes, I've owned a Bushy. Why don't you ask this, or any other forum whether he should get a Colt, Noveske, LMT etc or a Bushmaster. For the difference in price, which is small, why wouldn't he buy or build something better?
I wasn't saying anything bad about Bushy, I was saying for a little more he could get any gun he desired made compliant. He could have a higher quality gun for another $100 or $200. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| Build one yourself. Get a fixed stock, or pin a collapsible where you want it. Put on a muzzle break at the end of your barrel to make it meet at least 16" and then silver solder it yourself(making it permanent). Recommend the PWS FSC556. If you go with a low profile gas block with a longer FF forend rail...then you don't have a bayonet lug to deal with. Or...just take a dremel took and cut off the "ears" of the lug and refinish. By doing this, you can at least configure the gun exactly how you want when building it up. |
|
Thanks! That's a great list to work with. I was really considering a billet lower/upper set (mega) but I'm not sure if the price difference is worth it over a std forged set. The billet mega set w/charging handle is ~375 and a forged set is around ~300 with bcm gunfighter charging handle. On looks alone I'd say its worth it but I was wondering if there were any practical benefits? From a quick glance I know the billet set has an integrated trigger guard and a flared mag well and I assume the fit between the upper/lower is tighter.
And since the can of worms has been opened... since I'm starting from scratch I was looking at piston retrofit kits (adams arms) and was wondering if it was a worthwhile upgrade.... |
|
Quoted:
Buy a PWA preban lower. Then get a complete BCM upper and BCM BCG for it. Then you can have a top quality rifle with a collapsible stock, threaded barrel/flash hider and bayonet lug and not have to worry about ban compliance. Buying a preban lower was also a consideration but the costs associated with obtaining a preban lower seemed like they would throw my budget out the window. |
|
How soon do you really NEED the rifle? We're not talking want here. NEED? Don't rush into something that you may later regret. I own 1 AR and it's a Bushmaster. I started having problems with it short-stroking some Black Hills remanufactured ammo and discovered the gas key on the BCG was loose. This is one of the few problems (that I have read about) that folks seem to have with Bushmaster––improperly staked gas keys. Not a big deal really. I just tightened it back down again. Bushmaster should do you just fine.
Some folk complain about a canted front sight on their Bushmaster. This is kinda hit and miss. If you check for it before you pick up your rifle, you can avoid it. Another gripe people have about Bushmaster, is cost. For the money, you should be able to get better quality, or get the same quality cheaper. So, I would suggest trying to build your own. You will have an added sense of pride in your rifle and have a much more intimate knowledge of the internal working of the beast. Another brand I would look long and hard at is LMT. Definitely in your Budget of $1200. In the end analysis, they will all go bang when new. It just depends how long and hard you ride them. |
|
If you want to save money, build your own. I've built a couple. at the time to buy one just like i wanted it would have been $1200. i think i spent 6-700 when it was all said and done. I'd check on parts availability before i started though. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with bushmaster. |
| I'm in NY too and can tell you that, there are alot more options than the one's listed. Of those three, definitely the Colt. Guys like Denny's Global Tactical Supply and Adco will mod any rifle you want to NY compliance. They can pin muzzle breaks, cut off bayo lugs, pin collapsible stocks where you want them and much more. Mfgs like Noveske, LWRC, will also make you a rifle that is compliant. I have 2 Noveskes that are compliant and used to have a 3rd. You can also pick from a few fixed stocks if A2 stocks or the fake collapsible stock the rifles you mentioned are too long for you. Also Rainier Arms, and G&R Tactical will sometimes send the rifle you buy from them to a smith before shipping if you ask them. Don't settle for a Bushy if you have Colts, DDs, Bcm, Noveske to choose from. IMHO |
|
Quoted: I'm in NY too and can tell you that, there are alot more options than the one's listed. Of those three, definitely the Colt. Guys like Denny's Global Tactical Supply and Adco will mod any rifle you want to NY compliance. They can pin muzzle breaks, cut off bayo lugs, pin collapsible stocks where you want them and much more. Mfgs like Noveske, LWRC, will also make you a rifle that is compliant. I have 2 Noveskes that are compliant and used to have a 3rd. You can also pick from a few fixed stocks if A2 stocks or the fake collapsible stock the rifles you mentioned are too long for you. Also Rainier Arms, and G&R Tactical will sometimes send the rifle you buy from them to a smith before shipping if you ask them. Don't settle for a Bushy if you have Colts, DDs, Bcm, Noveske to choose from. IMHO This. OP, you should build your own. There is no reason why you cant build your own within your budget. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Buy a PWA preban lower. Then get a complete BCM upper and BCM BCG for it. Then you can have a top quality rifle with a collapsible stock, threaded barrel/flash hider and bayonet lug and not have to worry about ban compliance. Buying a preban lower was also a consideration but the costs associated with obtaining a preban lower seemed like they would throw my budget out the window. Shop the EE prices are on the decline. I just got a complete lower minus buttstock for 350. The deals are there just have to find them. |
|
Quoted:
So, I am looking to purchase my first AR15. My budget is ~1500 and that is a firm cap with me really wanting to spend around 1000-1200 so I can have more money for ammo/range time. Since I am in a ban state my options for buying a complete rifle are fairly limited. The top three options when it comes to complete rifles are: In price order: Bushmaster Post Ban Carbine with detachable carry handle S&W MP15 Post Ban Carbine with detachable carry handle Colt MT6400C Part of me says to grab the bushmaster for ~950 OTD and get myself to the range. The other part says go with the colt because they are a brand associated with high quality products but the price difference is about $300. I hear mixed reviews on bushmaster stuff but none from people who actually own the guns so their opinions really don't hold much value to me. My other option is to piece together an AR. My only issue with that is that while I would love to piece together a rifle I really don't even know what I like/dislike so its hard to really decide what type of rifle to piece together. And the other issue is that once I start buying things piecemeal my $1500 rifle turns into a $2500 rifle. Ideas? Opinions? Just know that you can buy any non-compliant AR and have it neutered. I am in the Saratoga Springs area and have bought a couple of Colt LE6920's. They go to my FFL where his gunsmith makes them ban compliant for less than $100.00, and then he transfers them to me. All legal, no problem. |
|
My buddy and I bought AR's at the same time. He went with S+W M+P 15, I got the Bushy flattop with the carry handle. We both dropped 950$, but he had to buy sights. We've fed Russian steel case and four-year old XM193 through 'em, never ever ever had a single problem, and they both shoot to the same accuracy. The only reason I'd pay more for a Colt or a S+W is to get that silly cobra/bullpup emblem off the lower reciever :)
Other than a tacky embliem, it's never hiccupped ever, and it shoots straight. You might be able to squeeze a few tenths of a minute of an angle out of a more expensive stock AR, maybe, when you're using a bench rest, etc, etc, but since I don't shoot from a bench, I've never been able to tell the difference between more expensive ARs, and mine. Other than handguards/forerails, of course. Those are nice. Some day I'll buy summa those...and put 'em on my Bushie. And I'll have money for that because I bought a Bushie! And I have money to go to the range because...I bought a Bushie! So buy a Bushie! |
|
I just "built" my first AR15. I got one of those complete DD M4 uppers on sale for 500 bucks and had ADCO neuter it, then added a sully stock, LPK on a DSA lower. If I was to do it over again and did not have the option of getting one of those sale uppers I would have just purchased the Daniel Defense DDVX carbines from ADCO firearms and have him neuter it for me (pin stock one click out, add FSC556, and remove bayo lug). The base gun is 1,100 bucks, the shop work is under a hundred bucks, and the FSC 556 is 100 bucks. With the transfer you should be well under 1,400 bucks for a good reliable rifle. You have less to worry about with a factory assembled rifle than one you assembled yourself. Get a case of ammo and shoot the shit out of it. If something goes wrong you can send it back to DD to get fixed. |
|
+1 Build your own.
+1 on thinking about crowned barrel over a Comp. Not sure; if I had to do it again, I might have just gone this route. Take your time and get parts that you are interested in. I'll be the first to admit that I built both my 5.56 and 9mm rigs during "the scare". About 3-4 months post election. I got almost everything from the EE. And it still cost me 1400 and 1250 respectively. The only thing I regret was my own dumb ass timing for the builds due to premium costs(and some S&H charges). I would not worry about how long it takes, think of it this way...Get the parts you want from the get go or spend more time and money swapping parts and collecting the leftovers; or at least having to sell them on the EE. Also relish in the experience that you put the dang thing together yourself. PS I also went with Mega lowers for both builds, No complaints and everything went bang after I put it all together. I also recommend the BCM complete upper and either have the FSB swapped for a GB or just grind off the Lug. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm in NY too and can tell you that, there are alot more options than the one's listed. Of those three, definitely the Colt. Guys like Denny's Global Tactical Supply and Adco will mod any rifle you want to NY compliance. They can pin muzzle breaks, cut off bayo lugs, pin collapsible stocks where you want them and much more. Mfgs like Noveske, LWRC, will also make you a rifle that is compliant. I have 2 Noveskes that are compliant and used to have a 3rd. You can also pick from a few fixed stocks if A2 stocks or the fake collapsible stock the rifles you mentioned are too long for you. Also Rainier Arms, and G&R Tactical will sometimes send the rifle you buy from them to a smith before shipping if you ask them. Don't settle for a Bushy if you have Colts, DDs, Bcm, Noveske to choose from. IMHO This. OP, you should build your own. There is no reason why you cant build your own within your budget. Yep. You can build an awfully nice rifle on your own for less than a grand. |
|
Quoted:
I'm in NY too and can tell you that, there are alot more options than the one's listed. Of those three, definitely the Colt. Guys like Denny's Global Tactical Supply and Adco will mod any rifle you want to NY compliance. They can pin muzzle breaks, cut off bayo lugs, pin collapsible stocks where you want them and much more. Mfgs like Noveske, LWRC, will also make you a rifle that is compliant. I have 2 Noveskes that are compliant and used to have a 3rd. You can also pick from a few fixed stocks if A2 stocks or the fake collapsible stock the rifles you mentioned are too long for you. Also Rainier Arms, and G&R Tactical will sometimes send the rifle you buy from them to a smith before shipping if you ask them. Don't settle for a Bushy if you have Colts, DDs, Bcm, Noveske to choose from. IMHO NEW YORK. I have a question for you in you post you say that the Colt. Guys like Denny's Global Tactical Supply and Adco will mod any rifle you want to NY compliance. MY sons want to buy a colt 6920 but they were told by our local FFL dealer that it has to be made NYS compliant from the factory or any other manufacture S&W STAG etc. SO if I am reading this correctly I can purchase which ever one that has these evil features and have the dealer send it to one of the above to make it NYS complaint please correct me if I am wrong and does it matter who I buy it from? and then have them A FFL dealer send it directly to Adco, Denny’s etc and then once it is done they would send it to my local FFL dealer thank you in advance. |
|
Consult with your dealer first: The one I'm closely associated with will receive a non-compliant rifle in and make it compliant before you pick it up.
Another option is to have the upper sent directly to you, then have it modified....depending on where you're at and who's around you might be able to find someone locally that can do the work. (I've changed more than one muzzle device and cut the lug off that many more front sight bases) 
The Lower IS the rifle, everything else is parts. 
|
|
Quoted:
You will have no reliability issues with a Bushmaster or any of the above if properly maintained... A friend of mine bought a NIB Bushmaster M4 from Herb Philipsons last year. It was unreliable pretty much from the start with Wolf ammo and USGI mags. I opened it up on a problematic range trip with him and discovered that his gas rings were chewed up badly. I installed a new set, and it seemed to run fine. As of late, he is still having issues with it, FTF/FTE. I have not had a chance to look it over more closely for him, but he is not happy with it at all. And before anyone jumps on the "I Hate Wolf" bandwagon, you would be amazed at the number of trouble-free rounds of Wolf my friends and I have sent downrange. If you gun doesn't run on poly Wolf, your gun has issues. Yet another friend of mine had more than his share of malfunctions with his Bushmaster M4 in a "skills and drills" league I ran last summer at my club. It was also a new gun. He hardly made it thorugh a drill without clearing a malf, with more than one ammo type over the 4 days of the league. Call me underwhelmed with new Bushmasters, if they are representative. I do have some friends with older Bushies which do indeed shoot pretty well. Out of your choices, I would take the 6400C. I own a 6400C upper, and it is a VERY good shooter. My only minor concern is the mikulek comp, which will make you no friends on the range next to you. It is very effective however. |