Posted: 6/28/2006 8:49:48 AM EDT
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quick question... if I took my incomming PSL, and installed a threaded flash hider on it, would it be considered an assault weapon? this comes back to the "pistol grip" vs "thumbhole stock" debate.... anyone have evidence of NYS saying specificially thumbhole stocks=pistol grips, aside from what the ATF determined of the old FEDERAL AWB? thanks |
| You already have an 'assault weapon' based on the fact that the PSL is a semi automatic and takes a detachable magazine. You may only have two evil features on a post ban 'assault weapon' in NY, and the magazine is one. Right now NY dosen't have a state level ruling similar to the federal one calling the grip on a thumbhole stock a pistol grip. Bear in mind that the NY ban mirrors the expired federal one, and expect the same to apply to your rifle. |
PSLs arnt 'assault rifles' per se by default in NY.... fixed muzzle break thumbhole (PISTOLGRIP stock) detachable magazines only TWO evil features, which is the max.... I was just curious about if thumbhole stock=pistolgrip stock here in NY |
I asked the same question about a shotgun and a thumb hole stock. It seems to fall into the grey area of nobody knows for sure. Seems like NJ and NY don't have a clear ruling in this one as far as I have been told on here. |
ya I stumbled on your shotgun pgrip/thumbhole stock post after I made this thread.....  man....id sure love to know..what have we got to lose, if we take the side of caution already...
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The definition of an assault weapon in NYS is: A semi automatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel; a grenade launcher [included to scare people, since grenades and launchers are restricted by the National Firearms Act]; Pretty much every post ban AW in NYS has the same two evil features, a pistol grip and a detachable magazine. The only exception to this I'm aware of is the M-1A. Since it has no pistol grip, it can have a detachable magazine and a flash hider. Your PSL is at least in the same catagory as the M-1A, and at most might be able to get away with a flash hider so long as NYS dosen't decide to follow the federal lead and classify your 'thumbhole' stock as a pistol grip. Remember that the original thumbhole stocks had just that, a small hole for your thumb. Manufacturers have been pushing the envelope and expanding the amount of space in the 'thumbhole' so that now they are de facto pistol grips, which is probably the reason the feds decided to tighten up on the definition. BTW, if you don't preminantly attach the flash hider, you have a threaded barrel. This is a no no on post ban AW's. You do what you want, but whatever you do to your PSL it is still a post ban AW in NYS. |
having a threaded barrel, or a welded on flash hider is no different... as you would still have a gun that accepts detachable mags, thumbhole stock, and a threaded muzzle. are you saying rifles with detachable mags, and pistol grips are 'assault weapons'? now your confusing me.... i tried before to see if thumbhole stocks were considered pistol grips before, and the answers I got were all the same....a "no". |
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A detachable magazine is not an "evil feature". It is the qualifying feature that puts it in the "Assault Weapon" potential category. Any firearm that has a fixed magazine can have all the evil features it wants, as long as it is 922 compliant. That being said, rifles with detachable magazines can only have one evil feature. If it has a pistol grip, it can not have a flash hider, a threaded barrel, a collapsible/folding stock or even a bayonet lug. If it has a thumbhole stock, per the old Federal-Ban, which no longer exists, it would be the same as having a pistol grip. Only one extra feature allowed. Now the major problem is whether your state classifies a thumbhole stock as a pistol grip. In other states, specifically Kalifornia, it is spelled out in their assault weapon ban. But like in NJ, NY does not specifically ban thumbhole stocks or characterize them as a pistol grip. You are basically on your own. |
Exactly. Now it just comes down to the pistol grip and thumbhole stock issue.... has anyone tried to look into this or? |
early import, preban or? mine is a factory rifle, not a kit one id have to be 922 compliant if i had it threaded? |
Adding a muzzle device could push you over the 10 foreign parts count, so using a US made device would be necessary for 922r compliance. AL PSL's are post '89 rifles so 922r applies.
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ok, and if I got a US made flash hider, and installed it, id be set? |
Probably. I say probably because it all hinges on the issue of the thumbhole stock. I don't know of a single instance in NY where someone was charged with a stand alone AW violation. Most peoplw wouldn't know the difference without a scorecard.
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yeah, one dealer I asked said he was apprehensive, another said no problem... ATF said they couldnt advise, but their "opinion" was I should be fine....Pistol Permit Bureau said I was fine, as a thumbhole stock isnt a pistol grip, same goes for the troopers barracks....I dont recall the Attny Generals reply, I do remember they copy pasted the verbage, highlighting PISTOL GRIP in the law... Everyone ive contacted on the phone in the govt thinks its ok, but none have it in WRITING...no one would provide that for me. 
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Nope. You need 7 US parts including the flash hider to be 922r compliant on an AK that you have removed the thumbhole stock from. |
but im not removing the thumbhole stock... |
mine was one of the very first imported in 97 it is the same as a Military issue PSL , Factory assembled in Romania. only thing they did was shave off Bayo. lug, the Lug Band is still on the barrel. They Tack welded a muzzle sleeve over the factory threads, but that shot off in 2 rounds.. |
Ok so its threaded under the muzzle break? and your telling me its ok to install a flash hider then? |
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i'd say you can WELD on a BRAKE. but not a flashhider. thats just what I would say. you've probably read the same laws as i have and we all have, and i believe that would be your safest approach if you really really need to put something on the muzzle. of course i am not a lawyer and my advice is most likely totally worthless. |
yea... ill 99.99999999999999% leave the MB on it and leave it stock. Just seeing whats possible... 
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