Posted: 3/22/2006 5:16:39 AM EDT
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Can anyone explain how to permanently pin a tele stock for a NJ (post ban) build? I would like to pin a Vltor. Thanks in advance. Mike |
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I would also be interested. I'm looking to do the same mod, but with an LMT buttstock. Mike, is yours the Clubfoot or regular version? I have been told you could put it in the position you want and drill 2 holes through the rib on the bottom of the stock and use roll pins to hold it in place, as shown below. My only problem with this is that it may not be that strong of a mod if the stock is fully extended.  ^_^_^ |
Are these screws or pins? How permanent is something like these? ^_^_^ |
I have seen machine screws or bolts whose head is designed to fasten clockwise one way until tightened, but cannot back it out. |
Those one-way screws ARE removeable, with the proper tool. Locksmiths use them and carry the un-drivers, which look like snake-eye bits. A determined prosecutor could make a case for calling this mod only temporary given the availability of a tool meant to unscrew these fasteners. Steel roll pin or rivet would be a better 'permanent' choice, imho. |
and a hammer and a punch can't remove a roll pin? i'm not trying to start an argument, just pointing out the idiocy of these stupid NJ laws. ar-jedi |
two things. 1) along the lower edge of the stock are two roll pins, inserted by BM through the receiver extension. 2) the receiver extension used on by BM on the non-extendable stocks is actually a rifle extension (long), not a carbine extension (short). so, in fact, even if you punch out the aforementioned roll pins, you can't collapse the stock as the rifle receiver extension prevents it. in order to reduce the length of a pinned BM stock, you first need a carbine receiver extension. alternatively, folks have cut down the rifle extension in various ways. ar-jedi |
| That's how my RRA stock is pinned, to a rifle extension. I was thinking of getting a Vltor to permanently pin but I believe I read somewhere here that in NY it would be legal only if I used a rifle extension. NY fears that you could unpin it and collapse it if you wanted to. |
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If you look at a BM pinned stock you'll see that it is 'Blind Pinned', which means that the hole for the pin does not go all the way through, preventing you from driving it out again. I've done one stock this way, drilling all the way through the stock and buffer on one side. When the pin is flush in the hole there is no way to get it out other than drilling it out, and pins are hardened steel that will probably bust most drill bits. RRA fixed CAR stocks just have the plastic bolted to the buffer tube which is easily removed, but since the tube is rifle-length it dosn't reduce the OAL of the rifle. ATF required blind pinning in at least 2 locations IIRC. NY/NJ is anybody's guess... |
yes, i stand corrected on this. i just inspected my BM fixed stock and it indeed is blind pinned. stock was purchased with the rifle in 2001-ish. ar-jedi |
Same thing in NJ. You find out what is legal when the jury deliveres a verdict. Mike |
ok, who's done it and what'd you do?  i'll be up front here -- i'm not trying to break any laws. but i have short arms (no jokes please  ) and my wife is smaller framed. so the "fixed" BM tele-stock on my M4gery has never been optimum. hence the reason why i would like to (legally) obtain a true tele-stock and (legally) pin it in a position about 1.5" shorter than the fixed BM tele-stock. to wit, the fixed tele-stock on my black M4gery below is actually longer than the fixed Vltor A1 stock on my tan RECCE. this sorta sucks when shooting upright, like you actually use an M4 as most of the time. moreover, my wife has a hard time getting any kind of a good cheek weld. ar-jedi  |
I ended up using a bolt, fast setting epoxy, and a textured plastic plug to give my stock a nice prof. finish. The epoxy would be a beotch to remove.
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The RRA fixed CAR style (not M4 style) is A1 length and uses CAR buffer and spring. The M4 style fixed stocks are A2 lenght and use rifle length internals. Look for the RRA style if you want the shorter length. BTW, these aren't pinned, only held on by the bolt through the dummy latch. Full-length tube means compliance since you can't mak it any shorter even without the plastic. Federal law stated (when it was in effect) that stock couldn't fold or collapse. Removeable stocks weren't regulated, ala 1928 Thompsons or an AK minus the buttstock. Yes, it was the height of stupidity. |
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I have 2 questions... Can you remove the pinned from the factory stock(easily without drilling pins) and replace with a fixed stock like an ace skeleton?AND Can anyone confirm that you can only have a rifle extension rather than a carbine lenght extension to pin to be legal? PS I dont own an ar or have taken one apart, so I might not know what Im talking about. Ron |
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i would go with an extension tube with no holes in it... NJ makes up the laws as they go... according to 2C:39-1
by possessing both the PRNJ legal firearm and the collapsible stock in its "non-pinned" form... you have an assault firearm... NJ Firearms Laws 2C:39-1 (w) 5 |
this then makes it impossible to have a collapsible stock shipped to you in NJ, for purposes of permanently pinning it to a fixed length? ar-jedi |
I would think so, yes. It's not the shipping to NJ that's illegal, it's the actual possession. Save yourself some time and have it shipped to PA and then block it in PA. That way it's legal. |
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I've pinned two stocks. Drilled two holes thru the stock and extension, drove screws thru so there is material coming out both sides. Then I grind down the extra metal and paint it flat black. Everything is also epoxied. You'd have to destroy the stock before you could collapse it. To be legal, have the stock shipped to another location in NJ, where there is no rifle. I used a relatives house. Or store your rifle out of your house while you do this. Don't have both together. Do the work then bring it all together and assemble. |
I'm sure that's just what the guys arming up to rob a bank with assault weapons would do since they are so respectful of firearms laws.  The state is fucking ridiculous. When will the politicians realize that criminals disregard every law?--that's why we call them criminals. All these bullshit restrictions do is make our lives insanely difficult to the point that the frustration makes you actually want to commit a crime with your New Jersified gun! All the laws in the world aren't going to change a criminal into a law abiding citizen. Geez, maybe I should run for office. Nah...I'm too honest.  |
| I have an FN Police Tactical Shotgun that came with a telestock. It is a pump with a pistol grip also. The gun is NJ legal, so how can I be violating the law by just possesing a telestock. Besides, if you receive it and pin the stock, no one will ever see it in its collapsible state. That would be the same as altering a 20 round mag to 15 rounds, how can you do it, if you can't possess it first. We know that they are sold in our state. Sarco used to do it, and they are in NJ. I have a factory Armalite that is modified to only accept ten rounds. It came that way. |
Yes I know that is true, but others were saying it would be illegal to purchase a telestock so that they can pin it themselves. I was just offering the fact that possesing it must not be a crime unless it is installed on a semi-auto rifle without being pinned. |
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i originally posted that in NJ possession of both the semi auto firearm and a collapsible stock for it (whether it is installed or not) is illegal... that's why people were suggesting that the stock be shipped to a relative's house, the pinning be done there, and then brought back home for assembly... i posted the letter of the law and the link to 2C:391 (w) 5... it's on the first page... this is why you make friends with someone in the commonwealth and keep your stockpile of good stuff (high caps, collapsible stocks, SS109, etc) over there... 
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