Posted: 9/4/2004 5:12:19 AM EDT
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I went to buy a pistol Friday. My NICS card has expired and the clerk at the gun store said I cannot buy a pistol until I get it renewed. I called the sheriffs department and they confirmed the same. What does NICS (Federal program) have to do with a New York State Pistol Permit issued by a county? I thought the card was only so the store doesn't have to call NICS every time you purchase a weapon. Can't the store simply call NICS if my card expired? Is NICS part of the same crime bill that gave us the AWB? Will it go away too? |
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WTF? they should just be able to call into the NICS system, like FFLs do in states that don't have nic cards or ccw that counts as a nic card all that card is supposed to do is let you bypass the call (and potential wait) unless I am totally wrong, but I think I'm right on this one |
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So what you are saying is even though you have a valid NYS PP you can never buy another handgun for the rest of your life? I've never heard of anything like this. Don't you also have a purchase order or does your Sheriff's Dept. only issue one after you amend your permit? Does your Sheriff's Dept. have a procedure to renew your NICS certification? If your PP is not NICS certified (most aren't in NYS) the dealer just needs to run a NICS check. |
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I went to the sheriffs department and filled out paperwork to renew my NICS card. It was free to renew and the clerk confirmed again that she will not let you add any pistols until the NICS card is updated. She said it would be at least tuesday to get the new card as an investigator has to OK it. I am getting a feeling this is a Jefferson County thing. I called another dealer in town and he also said that the clerk won't add a new pistol until I renew my NICS card. They are using this NICS thing as an excuse to review your record every five years. |
You don't NEED NICS to make a purchase, the NICS only exempts the dealer from having to do an instant check. If you don't mind having the call made by the dealer( and face a possible delay response) go without the NICS coupon. As for reviewing you, around here the judge reviews each purchase before he releases a coupon, a delay that imposes a waiting period of a week or so in the purchase process. During that review process they check to see if you have had any disqualifying actions occur against you . |
Yes it is a Jefferson County thing. There is no provision or requirement under NYS law that requires this. It sounds like all they will do is have a NICS check done on you and recertify your permit as NICS certified. |
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It might be a Jefferson County thing, but it is fact that if you have not added a handgun to your licenses within the last five years, they will run your name thru the computer (usually takes 24hrs) BEFORE they will issue a purchase coupon. The NICS card is offered as a freeby that has an issue date and an exparation date. The reasion for the dates is found in the 4473's for the "No NICS" box to be checked, the CCW permit MUST have been issued/renewed within the last five years. You don't need a NICS card to purchase a firearm, it just makes buying one less of a hassle. The county will not add a handgun to your licenses unless you've been checked out within the last five years. Like it or not, that's the way it is. |
| It's not only a Jefferson county regulation. Monroe county has the same procedure. You cannot add a new pistol to your permit without an updated NICS check and it must be done every 5 years. It is annoying. On the plus side many dealers in this area use an updated check to allow a firearms purchase without calling it in. |
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It appears at least in Jefferson and Monroe counties that they have in effect implemented a five year license renewal system if you want to add a handgun to your license. If you have a valid NICS certification the dealer should NOT be running a NICS check on any transfer. That's the whole point of be NICS certified. |
No, the licenses are lifetime, the check is done to insure compliance with the law. IF you've violated any of the laws that would cause you to lose your rights, and fell thru the cracks your licenses would be pulled anyway. AFAIK dealers LOVE the NICS cards as it saves time and hassle when selling a firearm. Aubertine's beef was the dealer wouldn't honor his NICS card because it was expired. Understandably (altho a bit anal) they apparently wouldn't start the sale process until his lacenses was made current. If your licensesing agency isn't issueing cards that expire, then count yourself luckey, but be ware it will catch up eventually. I'm from Florida and down there one could buy a handgun anywhere from anyone with little more than a drivers licenses. Of dozens of handgun and long gun transactions every year, having to submit to a simple computer check is no big deal. Do I like it? NO I plan on visiting Gander Mountain this week, and I'll talk to Carl Egberg the store manager to see what he says. New store+ new employees= problems rkbar15 Your preaching to the choir, and I have no beef with you. I've just come to accept things for the way they are, changing things that I can, when I can.  Is it constitutional? proabably not. Will it stop me from playing the game? NO freakin way. |
No, these two counties have decided your license must in "effect" be "renewed" every five years if you want to buy a firearm from a dealer. There is no requirement that a NICS card be issued, renewed or that your license be reviewed every five years under NYS law. There are only three counties and the City of NY in NYS that had the Penal Law amended to allow periodic expiration/recertification of your license. They have in effect bypassed the legislative process.
I understand the issue Aubertine has. Once again there is no requirement under NYS law to do what these two counties are doing.
These are the only two counties I am aware of that have dreamed up this procedure.
The problem is every County has setup it's own rules and procedures which are not required under NYS law. Sometimes it even depends on which Judge happens to get your permit to approve. As a practical matter short of having the Penal Law amended or filing suit against the County there isn't much you can do about it. Once again they bypassed the legislative process and in effect made their own law without legislative review or public comment. |
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rkbar15: I concure with your points. For a good many years Judges issuing the licenses have legislated from the bench by envoking their own rules ie "Hunting and target practice only". Policy varies from county to county with little congruence. Some will issue blank purchase coupons with a xx hour time limit so you could make a purchase at a distant location and have it ammended upon return home. Jefferson County won't, but Oswego County will (the county clerk use to set up a table at the Scriba gunshow for patrons to buy/sell/trade right at the show!). Having a uniform set of laws and rules governing handguns statewide could be a double edged sword. I say scrap the whole thing and let those competent and capiable of responsibly posessing a handgun be allowed, but this is New York, and we have laws for everything. 
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