Posted: 12/17/2016 11:47:26 PM EDT
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So today I needed to go into a store that had the appropriate 30.06, but not 30.07 signage.
I did not do this, but I was about a hair's breadth away from tucking my shirt and open carrying into the store. They don't want concealed carry, but the lack of signage would indicate that open carry is fine with them. Would I have been legal? Discuss. Am I missing something here? |
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There is no need to untucked. If someone sees your gun who cares since it is legal (assuming you use shoulder or belt holster). And if nobody sees it who cares. Not being seen does not mean it is concealed. Agreed. Worst case scenario is being asked to leave and if LE happens to be there, you comply and leave, then he can only issue a citation for it. If you refuse to leave then it becomes a class A misdemeanor. |
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Not all Class C's but yes I am aware of that. Quoted:
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A Leo can arrest for a Class C. Not all Class C's but yes I am aware of that. 99.9% of them. The only three that come to mind are public intoxication (no citation possible), and two that require the violator be given the opportunity to be released with a citation, but require arrest if they refuse to sign; speeding and open container. As a side note (and my trivia OCD), speeding violators that are not licensed in NRVC states are not required to be released with a citation (CA and MI come to mind). |
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99.9% of them. The only three that come to mind are public intoxication (no citation possible), and two that require the violator be given the opportunity to be released with a citation, but require arrest if they refuse to sign; speeding and open container. As a side note (and my trivia OCD), speeding violators that are not licensed in NRVC states are not required to be released with a citation (CA and MI come to mind). You can arrest for PI and you do issue a citation for it, so you can either write them a ticket and give it to them or arrest them on the ticket. You can't arrest for speeding or open container. There is no if and or but about it. The only time you can arrest on that is if the ticket has gone into warrant. Does not matter what state the violator is from. But those are the only stipulations. Source - my Texas Peace Officers license. 
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You can arrest for PI and you do issue a citation for it, so you can either write them a ticket and give it to them or arrest them on the ticket. You can't arrest for speeding or open container. There is no if and or but about it. The only time you can arrest on that is if the ticket has gone into warrant. Does not matter what state the violator is from. But those are the only stipulations. Source - my Texas Peace Officers license. Of course you can arrest for Speeding and Open Container. If the violator refuses to sign you can arrest. The charge is either speeding or OC |
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Of course you can arrest for Speeding and Open Container. If the violator refuses to sign you can arrest. The charge is either speeding or OC Quoted:
Of course you can arrest for Speeding and Open Container. If the violator refuses to sign you can arrest. The charge is either speeding or OC No, you can't. Sorry but you are absolutely incorrect. Transportation Code Sec. 543.004. NOTICE TO APPEAR REQUIRED: CERTAIN OFFENSES. (a) An officer shall issue a written notice to appear if:
(1) the offense charged is speeding or a violation of the open container law, Section 49.03, Penal Code; and (2) the person makes a written promise to appear in court as provided by Section 543.005. (b) If the person is a resident of or is operating a vehicle licensed in a state or country other than this state, Subsection (a) applies only as provided by Chapter 703. (c) The offenses specified by Subsection (a) are the only offenses for which issuance of a written notice to appear is mandatory. As stated above, you SHALL (you have no other choice) issue a summons (ticket) to the violator. In other words, you can't arrest and take the person to jail. If we want to get technical the summons issued is an arrest but not one that goes on a CCH. If the violator refuses to sign the summons then you note that on the ticket and release them. Refusal to sign does not allow for arrest and jail. |
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No, you can't. Sorry but you are absolutely incorrect. As stated above, you SHALL (you have no other choice) issue a summons (ticket) to the violator. In other words, you can't arrest and take the person to jail. If we want to get technical the summons issued is an arrest but not one that goes on a CCH. If the violator refuses to sign the summons then you note that on the ticket and release them. Refusal to sign does not allow for arrest and jail. Read the part where it reads "if the person makes a written promise to apear. It may be your agencies policy to not arrest even if lawfully permitted, but the law clearly allows it. |
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Read the part where it reads "if the person makes a written promise to apear. It may be your agencies policy to not arrest even if lawfully permitted, but the law clearly allows it. You are not permitted to arrest for it. The law says "shall" and that leaves you with only one option. You must comply with that. Also, you have to look at CCP 14.03 "Arrest without a warrant." It's not an agency policy, it's the state law. You have to give them the opportunity to promise to appear but if they don't you can't arrest on it. You have to allow it to go to warrant first. |
| If you won't take the word from someone who is licensed Texas peace officer, then how about a Texas lawyer? Link |
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If you won't take the word from someone who is licensed Texas peace officer, then how about a Texas lawyer? Link Quoted:
If you won't take the word from someone who is licensed Texas peace officer, then how about a Texas lawyer? Link And I quote from your website: The Two Exceptions There are two circumstances where an officer cannot arrest you if you provide a written promise to appear. You know this “promise to appear” as “signing the ticket.” You’ll be happy to know that one of those offenses you can not be arrested for is speeding. It’s a huge sigh of relief to you and your lead foot, I know. The other offense that you cannot be arrested for is violation of the open-container law. That is, if you sign the ticket. He clearly states you can't be arrested IF you sign the ticket. That would infer that if you do not sign the ticket you can be arrested. P.S. - I don't know which of you is right but using that as a source, to backup your side, isn't helping your case. |
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This may put this to bed:
TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD CHAPTER 543. ARREST AND PROSECUTION OF VIOLATORS Sec. 543.002 |
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This may put this to bed: TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD CHAPTER 543. ARREST AND PROSECUTION OF VIOLATORS Sec. 543.002 .002 is just stating a person who is arrested shall be taken before a judge immediately. The key word in all of this is "shall", in law that's an absolute. It does not appear much because it leaves the officer with no other choice than do what is stated. Same goes with violation of a protection order. It's a shall arrest offense. In other words, if an officer for whatever reason finds someone who is violating the conditions of a protective order then he HAS to arrest the violator. It is not his/her call at that point. So going back to 543.004 it states that you shall give them notice to appear. This is stating that the officer has to give the violator a chance to appear in court by a certain day and a certain location. Also note the text of subsection C of 543.005, "The offenses specified by Subsection (a) are the only offenses for which issuance of a written notice to appear is mandatory." |
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Like I tell my students. Yes, that's legal. You'll beat the rap, but you might not beat the ride.
In that situation, if someone who works at the store sees you, I'd be willing to bet that they'll call the cops. Probably out of sheer ignorance, because someone who is dumb enough to think that a 30.06 sign will prevent crime probably doesn't know about 30.07. |
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You can arrest for PI and you do issue a citation for it, so you can either write them a ticket and give it to them or arrest them on the ticket. You can't arrest for speeding or open container. There is no if and or but about it. The only time you can arrest on that is if the ticket has gone into warrant. Does not matter what state the violator is from. But those are the only stipulations. Source - my Texas Peace Officers license. Quoted:
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99.9% of them. The only three that come to mind are public intoxication (no citation possible), and two that require the violator be given the opportunity to be released with a citation, but require arrest if they refuse to sign; speeding and open container. As a side note (and my trivia OCD), speeding violators that are not licensed in NRVC states are not required to be released with a citation (CA and MI come to mind). You can arrest for PI and you do issue a citation for it, so you can either write them a ticket and give it to them or arrest them on the ticket. You can't arrest for speeding or open container. There is no if and or but about it. The only time you can arrest on that is if the ticket has gone into warrant. Does not matter what state the violator is from. But those are the only stipulations. Source - my Texas Peace Officers license. I was a police officer when they first changed it that you couldn't arrest for a speeding violation alone. Your interpretation is wrong. If the offender refuses to sign then you can indeed arrest the offender. Hence the part below about the written promise to appear. The signed citation is their promise to appear in court by the given date and time. Sec. 543.004. NOTICE TO APPEAR REQUIRED: CERTAIN OFFENSES. (a) An officer shall issue a written notice to appear if: (1) the offense charged is speeding or a violation of the open container law, Section 49.03, Penal Code; and (2) the person makes a written promise to appear in court as provided by Section 543.005. (b) If the person is a resident of or is operating a vehicle licensed in a state or country other than this state, Subsection (a) applies only as provided by Chapter 703. Sec. 543.005. PROMISE TO APPEAR; RELEASE. To secure release, the person arrested must make a written promise to appear in court by signing the written notice prepared by the arresting officer. The signature may be obtained on a duplicate form or on an electronic device capable of creating a copy of the signed notice. The arresting officer shall retain the paper or electronic original of the notice and deliver the copy of the notice to the person arrested. The officer shall then promptly release the person from custody. edited to add citations |
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Source - my Texas Peace Officers license. Quoted:
Source - my Texas Peace Officers license. All that is on your license? Must be a pretty big piece of paper. Quoted:
If you won't take the word from someone who is licensed Texas peace officer, then how about a Texas lawyer? Link Your own source contradicts you. 
There are two circumstances where an officer cannot arrest you if you provide a written promise to appear. You know this “promise to appear” as “signing the ticket.” You’ll be happy to know that one of those offenses you can not be arrested for is speeding. It’s a huge sigh of relief to you and your lead foot, I know. The other offense that you cannot be arrested for is violation of the open-container law. That is, if you sign the ticket. |
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The local jail has listed plenty of people showing only oc or speeding. Not arguing either way, just see that often.
Prisoners are also commonly only depicted with only resisting arrest. Was there no arrestable offense until they were arrested??? Seems like somebody's just entering some info to be finalized later? Then there are the +10% over speeders. That seems like a seperate offense. 23 in a school zone would qualify. It all seems counterintuitive to me how speeding offenses have gotten more serious as cars have gotten safer and more powerful. To speed in the a factory nineteen seventies or eighties car you really had to try. Now it's very easy to break the speed limit without even trying. Fines have risen far more than inflation. The last speeding ticket I had was from a local municipal officer who was being paid overtime by a federal grant in 2009. 49 in a 45. Weeks later the speed limit on that service road was raised to 50. I was driving a four cylinder 2008.5 Mazda with 260 some odd horspower. Had just upgraded from an 84 GMC and it was too easy to speed. Please forgive the randomness. Doing Santa duties is tiring. |
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The local jail has listed plenty of people showing only oc or speeding. Not arguing either way, just see that often. Prisoners are also commonly only depicted with only resisting arrest. Was there no arrestable offense until they were arrested??? Seems like somebody's just entering some info to be finalized later? Then there are the +10% over speeders. That seems like a seperate offense. 23 in a school zone would qualify. It all seems counterintuitive to me how speeding offenses have gotten more serious as cars have gotten safer and more powerful. To speed in the a factory nineteen seventies or eighties car you really had to try. Now it's very easy to break the speed limit without even trying. Fines have risen far more than inflation. The last speeding ticket I had was from a local municipal officer who was being paid overtime by a federal grant in 2009. 49 in a 45. Weeks later the speed limit on that service road was raised to 50. I was driving a four cylinder 2008.5 Mazda with 260 some odd horspower. Had just upgraded from an 84 GMC and it was too easy to speed. Please forgive the randomness. Doing Santa duties is tiring. Damn, ticketed for 4 over? You tell him to reel his line in a little? 
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