Posted: 3/10/2012 7:39:07 PM EDT
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A couple of questions for anyone who knows... Say I was to buy some land out in the country... that I wasn't actually planning on living on... And I wanted to have an ag exemption on it...
Can I get that only by planting crops on the land (I was thinking vegetables or maybe fruit trees or something like that which I could tend to on the weekends, etc), or do I have to run some kind of livestock? If livestock is required can I get the ag exemption if I "rent" the land for someone else to run livestock on? Mainly I just don't want to have to travel out there every day to feed and water livestock because the places I am looking at, in order to get the prices down to where I can afford them are a 45+ minute drive each way. |
| Look into a Wild LIfe Exemption. I am going from memory, but my understanding is you make a wild life plan and submit it to the proper the local TPWA. You have to do a few things to support the native wild life in your area. Things like brush piles for quail, water sources for deer or turkey. You have to have enough acres to qualify in your county. |
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See if the property owner (or whoever runs stock on it) next-door to your place would lease it.
How large is the property? Does it have fence? If not, you can lease it for hay. Some counties get really particular on giving you the ag rate. Some have stocking rate requirements. Your county ag extension agent or the NRCS could help. |
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Quoted:
See if the property owner (or whoever runs stock on it) next-door to your place would lease it. How large is the property? Does it have fence? If not, you can lease it for hay. Some counties get really particular on giving you the ag rate. Some have stocking rate requirements. Your county ag extension agent or the NRCS could help. I'm looking at a few places between 10-60 acres. I haven't seen all of them in person so I don't know much details on fencing yet, but I would probably want to put up a fence if it doesn't have it. I'm planning on planting a fair amount of land if not most of it into veggies and/or fruit/nut trees in any case, so I was really hoping that I could get an ag exemption for just that and not have to worry about running any livestock. Your suggestion of talking to the ag extension agent is a good one –– I should have thought of that since back about 25 years ago I used to work for the ag extension service up north where I grew up... |
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Quoted:
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See if the property owner (or whoever runs stock on it) next-door to your place would lease it. How large is the property? Does it have fence? If not, you can lease it for hay. Some counties get really particular on giving you the ag rate. Some have stocking rate requirements. Your county ag extension agent or the NRCS could help. I'm looking at a few places between 10-60 acres. I haven't seen all of them in person so I don't know much details on fencing yet, but I would probably want to put up a fence if it doesn't have it. I'm planning on planting a fair amount of land if not most of it into veggies and/or fruit/nut trees in any case, so I was really hoping that I could get an ag exemption for just that and not have to worry about running any livestock. Your suggestion of talking to the ag extension agent is a good one –– I should have thought of that since back about 25 years ago I used to work for the ag extension service up north where I grew up... Yeah, since every county requirements vary so much, you almost have to talk to them to see about the veggie and tree part. |
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If you look at property, ask what the current owners are doing now. They may have a grass lease and you could just continue that. Good thing about leasing it out is they will take care of the fence. Well, they should. You do not care much if some cows wander onto your property, but they care if their cows wander off.
And remember, it is an ag valuation, not exemption. Generally the valuation is a small fraction and looks like almost nothing, but is not really an "exemption". Now, there is a sales tax exemption for ag products, although they changed it this year so you have to get an ID number from the state. Used to be you could walk into Tractor Supply (for example), sign a form, and not pay sales tax on ag/farm/ranch use products. As was said, ask about veggies, etc. I wonder how much of the property has to be planted to get the valuation. Buy 60 acres, plow 2, leave the rest? Better ask to be sure. Oh, hay/pasture counts, but be prepared to actively manage it, even if you hire somebody to do the hay planting, fertilizing, harvesting. |
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Quoted:
Look into a Wild LIfe Exemption. I am going from memory, but my understanding is you make a wild life plan and submit it to the proper the local TPWA. You have to do a few things to support the native wild life in your area. Things like brush piles for quail, water sources for deer or turkey. You have to have enough acres to qualify in your county. My dad was looking at that after he got his property even though the property he got already had an ag exemption on it. I believe you are correct in that you have to have a minimum number of acres to apply for it along with certain other minimums such as water sources and feeders. I want to say if you have 2 water sources, 2 bird feeders, a deer feeder and like over 15 acres you could qualify, but I might be off a little. If the OP searches, I think I've seen the info on one of the state's websites. As for the ag exemptions, I believe if you buy land that already has it, then you have like a year before it expires and you have to reapply. The property my dad bought had it and he spent the first several months cleaning up the property and getting some fence work done so he could keep a few cows to maintain the ag exemption when it came time to renew it. |
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http://appraisaldistrictguide.com/agriculturalexemption.html
If you think it's going to happen this year forget it. You have to have at least 5 years of records. Ask me how I know this. Big brother is stingy when it comes to giving anyone a break. |
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A couple of quick thoughts that come from my current search for about the same amount of land in southeast Texas:
• Several parcels I've seen have a timber "exemption" (not sure if that's the correct term here) that lowers there property tax valuation a lot. You might want to see how that works; I haven't found out yet, but I imagine you'd have to at some point sell some trees. • It seems that whether or not a property is fenced doesn't affect the asking/sales price that much, but fencing 60 acres, or 40, or 30 is going to be a significant cost even using just minimal fencing. |
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I looked into this for my 30 track in Anderson County. My property is not fenced and heavily wooded. There was nothing I could do would cost less than 10 years worth of taxes to get set up. IIRC, the only way, in that county, to get the wildlife extension was to convert property that was already ag exempt.
Remember the following as you go through the process: Your asking a government bureaucrat to help you decrease the income that his/her pay check comes from. Just getting the CORRECT details was a PITA, since the basic rules are set forth by the state, but counties have a lot of room when it comes to how they administer it. The tax office was NOT a good source of "How to?" or "What if" information...they acted like it pissed them off. Take the advice above about going to YOUR county extension agent, figure out if there is anything workable for you, then go to the Tax Assessors office to verify what the extension agent advised. Find out the forms you will need, the supporting documentation they require, and try to get the requirements IN WRITING. There are also inspectors that do field visits to verify your claims (these may be a contracted 3rd party in some counties.) The inspectors subjective evaluation can enter into the process. Try to find the person in charge of that and see if you can talk to them about what you want to do. You will basically be in a position of having to spend a lot of money up front, operate the property in that manner for several years, then go beg the bureaucrats to give you a tax break. Also be sure to find out about the rules for taking property OUT of an AG or wildlife exemption. I don't remember the details, but if you fail to maintain the exemption (build a house in the wrong place, stop running cattle, let your fruit trees die, fence falls down), they can come back to you for YEARS worth of the difference between the normal tax and the exempt rate that was paid. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: See if the property owner (or whoever runs stock on it) next-door to your place would lease it. How large is the property? Does it have fence? If not, you can lease it for hay. Some counties get really particular on giving you the ag rate. Some have stocking rate requirements. Your county ag extension agent or the NRCS could help. I'm looking at a few places between 10-60 acres. I haven't seen all of them in person so I don't know much details on fencing yet, but I would probably want to put up a fence if it doesn't have it. I'm planning on planting a fair amount of land if not most of it into veggies and/or fruit/nut trees in any case, so I was really hoping that I could get an ag exemption for just that and not have to worry about running any livestock. Your suggestion of talking to the ag extension agent is a good one –– I should have thought of that since back about 25 years ago I used to work for the ag extension service up north where I grew up... Yeah, since every county requirements vary so much, you almost have to talk to them to see about the veggie and tree part. Most counties tax appraisers publish a chart informing you what their minimum expectations for livestock, crops or timber are. Regardless, it has to be a business, not a hobby farm. For us, we have to maintain irrigation and 16-25 pecan trees per acre. Which is more work managing and maintaining trees than I ever anticipated. Hardest part is keeping people from stealing my pecans. |
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Quoted:
A couple of questions for anyone who knows... Say I was to buy some land out in the country... that I wasn't actually planning on living on... And I wanted to have an ag exemption on it... Can I get that only by planting crops on the land (I was thinking vegetables or maybe fruit trees or something like that which I could tend to on the weekends, etc), or do I have to run some kind of livestock? If livestock is required can I get the ag exemption if I "rent" the land for someone else to run livestock on? Mainly I just don't want to have to travel out there every day to feed and water livestock because the places I am looking at, in order to get the prices down to where I can afford them are a 45+ minute drive each way. it has to be active for 5 of the last 7 years. so if you start now, it's going to take you at least 5 years of applications to build your history. Yes, you can lease it to someone to grow hay, that's the cheapest. you cannot get a wildlife type valuation without first having the regular type ag valuation (1-d-1). once you have established the ag valuation, then the next year you can go the wildlife route, but you would need a wildlife plan which most districts scrutinize pretty heavily so I recommend getting a professional that concentrates on providing and implementing plans. hope this helps. |
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For us, we have to maintain irrigation and 16-25 pecan trees per acre. Which is more work managing and maintaining trees than I ever anticipated. Hardest part is keeping people from stealing my pecans. People steal your pecans? Wow... that takes a lot of cajones in Texas to do something like that... You ever catch anyone? |
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Quoted:
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A couple of questions for anyone who knows... Say I was to buy some land out in the country... that I wasn't actually planning on living on... And I wanted to have an ag exemption on it... Can I get that only by planting crops on the land (I was thinking vegetables or maybe fruit trees or something like that which I could tend to on the weekends, etc), or do I have to run some kind of livestock? If livestock is required can I get the ag exemption if I "rent" the land for someone else to run livestock on? Mainly I just don't want to have to travel out there every day to feed and water livestock because the places I am looking at, in order to get the prices down to where I can afford them are a 45+ minute drive each way. it has to be active for 5 of the last 7 years. so if you start now, it's going to take you at least 5 years of applications to build your history. Yes, you can lease it to someone to grow hay, that's the cheapest. you cannot get a wildlife type valuation without first having the regular type ag valuation (1-d-1). once you have established the ag valuation, then the next year you can go the wildlife route, but you would need a wildlife plan which most districts scrutinize pretty heavily so I recommend getting a professional that concentrates on providing and implementing plans. hope this helps. I do the wildlife management, its a pain. My county checks me 4-6 time a year. I've had to fight them a couple of times too. I've got two side by side properties totaling 86 acers and half is ag. If it wasnt for the rollback threat I would juts homestead 20 of it and be done with it. Oh, also you can not write anything off and cannot get an AG number, so you have to pay sales tax on things that are taxable. |
Here is some truths and facts
1) if the the property had an AG valuation on the land the valuation follows the land. See if it already has an AG valuation. If not you have to prove up on a traditional AG practice for the last 5 out of 7 years. If AG has been practiced on land and the history was not started thea sworn affidavit from neighbors will help. If not the earliest year will be 2017 until you get the AG. Also in AG you are taxed on the production value instead of the market value. The dirt can jump 30,000 an acre and your taxable value will be the same because of the production value 2) minimum acreage and stocking rates will be defined by the agricultural advisory board for what is typical for your county. The counties CAD is responsible for enforcing and keeping up with the paperwork but it behooves you to provide evidence that you are indeed preforming your AG practice. Evidence being : receipts, vet bills, ariel surveys that show use (google maps). Lastly you shouldn't have the valuation just because you have a few pet cows. You should be in AG to make money like selling crops, hay, and/or cows 3) the wildlife exemption. My favorite! Ag and wildlife are supposed to be revenue neutral so there is no benefit to having either AG or wildlife. But you have to have ag first before you get wildlife. Here are the requirements for wildlife A) submit a wildlife plan detailing your intended actions for the next couple years. B) after each year you must submit a yearly report detailing what actions you did. Both form are available from TPWD or your CAD. By turning in supporting evidence with your report you will create a chain of facts that will make it hard for the CAD to not accept. C) you will have a list of 7 practices and you must do 3 out of the 7 each year to a minimum degree of intensity to qualify. If you need any help or have any questions PM or email me [email protected] |
| Appraisal Districts are always fun to deal with. I know of one appraiser who publicly stated that his responsibility was not to the taxpayer but to "...collect as much revenue as absolutely possible." Fighting these types is an uphill battle. If the chief appraiser in each county was an elected official there would be a chance of more accountability from them. |
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In a way the chief is, they are appointed by the board of directors which are elected. The premise of a chief as an elected official is a good idea but will end in failure and I'll tell you why
If the Cheif was elected then they would show pandering and favoritism to garner votes which was create a good ole boy system. |
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It would be farily easy to get by with just throwing random cow patties into your pasture and getting by easily. The appraiser guy could easiily miss ONE COW in an 80 acre stretch. You could just say he's back in them thar trees over there, and I kent gett em to come out.
[You might run 1 cow to 10 acres let say in a coastal county where 1 cow to 80 acres in west Texas
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Quoted: It would be farily easy to get by with just throwing random cow patties into your pasture and getting by easily. The appraiser guy could easiily miss ONE COW in an 80 acre stretch. You could just say he's back in them thar trees over there, and I kent gett em to come out. [You might run 1 cow to 10 acres let say in a coastal county where 1 cow to 80 acres in west Texas I can guarantee that the tax appraiser has not ever seen my property from the road. (Since it is not visible from any road.) I do know that they have recent aerial images of my property though. They don't seem to bother me too much; maybe every 3-5 years or so they call and ask for some documentation. Which, I am happy to provide. |
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In a way the chief is, they are appointed by the board of directors which are elected. The premise of a chief as an elected official is a good idea but will end in failure and I'll tell you why Our appraisal board is appointed by the taxing units. If the Cheif was elected then they would show pandering and favoritism to garner votes which was create a good ole boy system. Just like the rest of our democratically elected officials, huh? I guess we better abandon that idea as well. |
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so would your solution be to have a democratly elected Cheif that would drop values to buy votes or repay constituents?
Yes the taxing units do vote on the Cheif but the BOD appoints and contracts with the Cheif. Unless your county has so few taxing entities that all the taxing units have a representicve on the CAD BOD |
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so would your solution be to have a democratly elected Cheif that would drop values to buy votes or repay constituents? Nice way to phrase that question. Democratically elected officials are supposed to be accountable to their constituents. Yes the taxing units do vote on the Cheif but the BOD appoints and contracts with the Cheif. Unless your county has so few taxing entities that all the taxing units have a representicve on the CAD BOD Do you or have you worked for an appraisal district? |
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Taxes are a viscous cycle... you will pay whatever the city, county, library, EMS, school districts set for their budget. If the tax assessor were to lower the appraisals across the board, your politicians would just up their tax percentage to meet their budget requirements. |
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Cowman: I'll tell you what I do if you tell me what you do.
I do beleive we have far ventured from the OP's question, if y'all want to start a new thread over how the tax and apprisel systems works lets do that. Unless the OP feels his question has been answered then let's keep going |
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Yeah, that is the one. I remember going during the Easter weekend and having to sleep in the county event center on the floor. I think I stayed up until 5 am that night partying.
Did you happen to take Dr. Smiens's class, the one where you stay at the Bamburger Ranch, Mason Mountain, and stop a few places along the way for week, with Rusty? |
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I remember going to the civic center and partied all night and killed a 1/5 of wild turkey
I went to bamburgers ranch I think it was called selah. That's where the chiroctorium is. The manmade bat cave. I also remember Rusty Jenkins saying Bouteloua curtipenula in his sleep For any body wondering the name is italics up above is the scientific name for the state grass of Texas, which is side oats gramma |