Posted: 4/27/2010 11:39:16 AM EDT
"Hey Joe, where ya going with that back up gun in your hand" - Soowah Hendrix.  OK folks. Here is the roll out of what I hope to be an ongoing forum challenge. Phase 1 - Back Up Gun. Firearm - BUG/pocket pistol or you can use your everyday carry pistol. You also need 2 mags or speedloaders. Round count - 15 rounds. 5 loaded rounds, 5 rounds in each spare mag or speedloader. Time - Try to keep the ROF at 1sec or faster. Target - Standard B27 with 2" duct tape running vertically covering the middle of the 5pt scoring ring, this is a no shoot zone. Next a 2" tape running diagonally crossing in the center of the 5pt scoring ring. All shots on this marker count double and also count if hitting where it crosses the vertical tape. Distance - 7 yds. Scoring - No points outside the 5pt scoring ring. Standard 5pts inside the scoring ring. Diagonal tape hit counts 10pts (including where it crosses vertical tape). Vertical tape (no shoot) counts for 20pt deduction. Total possible pts 150. Total possible penalty (-150) Restrictions - no lasers and firearm has to be a BUG/pocket pistol or a concealed firearm you actually carry. Don't get carried away with wounded man reloads. You can load normally then transition if you need to, I don't want people getting kicked off ranges for sticking revolvers down their pants to reload.  Variances - Distance - Increase or decrease Time - Put yourself on the timer. Start: With firearm loaded and at low ready- start drill fire 5 shots freestyle (dominant / non-dominant, single hand or double hand) or your big toe if that's what you're into. RELOAD Fire 5 shots, single handed with your dominant side (action side for those magpul folks). RELOAD Fire 5 shots, single handed with your non-dominant side (reaction side for those magpul folks). End drill and score. Post target and firearm used in this thread. |
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My run with it this morning. Totally sucked and definitely need more non-dominant side practice. I had a catastrophic failure with the S&W 642. Some unburnt powder worked it's way into the action and got lodged between the hammer and cocking arm. I was unable to complete all 15 rounds, you can see 12rnds on the target. Range - 7dys Time - ended at 50sec on my last shot, was unable to continue. Score - 35pts.  |
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Quoted: Now you know why old wheelgunners point the muzzle up when dumping fired cases............  Nah, probably got there on shot #13 or rather squib 13. Banged the round out and was going to continue but the trigger would not reset. Yes, the tape is the challenge part. Picked it up from Kyle Lamb (Viking Tactics) If you don't have a BUG shoot your CCW. If you only have one mag, reload it and continue, this drill is not scored for time. I would like it though when you do shoot to keep the ROF to about 1 sec. This challenge is designed to get you to practice those thing you normally won't do. Single hand, non-dominant hand, two handed non-dominant. Anyone can take their service grade pistol and hammer out the COM at 7yds. It's a bit different with smaller guns as they tend to be a bit more challenging to control and manipulate add to that a no shoot and it gets interesting. I shoot non-dominant hand a lot, but very rarely with a BUG. |
OK, I didn't bring any tape to the range, so I kinda had to imagine where the tape would be and shoot. I chalked it when I got home. Not that it would have helped my score (negative) -40. 5 rounds weaver 5 rounds dominant 5 rounds weak (the flyer) Ruger SP101 158gr SWC-HP handloads, light 357 magnum about 1000fps I didn't time it, but kept the rate of fire at about 1 second. |
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We did have an issue at the range. My wife has taken to shooting my 1911 so I started reloading for it. We've only been shooting at 5 yards so she's developed a cocky sense of confidence, thinks she's good enough for head shots etc. I was picking up brass while I let her shoot and I noticed the top of the target was chewed up a little, like someone had shot it with a .410 shotgun. Sure enough she had hit the steel target mount and the super soft 200 grain lead ball just splattered on it, peppering the target with little shards of lead. I didn't think much of it. I went on to shoot my 357's, she went to the bathroom.
When she came back I noticed a scratch under her chin, about 3 inches long, like if you had scratched it with a fingernail, just barely a trace of blood. I asked her if she scratched herself, she said no but she said she thought something hit her wife she was shooting. Apparently a little sliver of lead caught her. Nothing serious, just a scratch and she didn't care or seem worried. Glad she was wearing the shooting glasses. Gonna move her back to 7 yards next time. |
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Quoted:
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I'll try to do this on Wed, when hitting the range with some Ft Worth homies. I have some challenging stuff for us this week. Bring your A game.  I have this on the curriculum.LOL....I'll do my best. BTW...If you have some 9mm 124 grains, bring them. If not, 9mm 115 is acceptable. Same with Shawn and Bill. |
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Quoted: Ouch. Seems like she's ok, I truly hope that's the case. We did have an issue at the range. My wife has taken to shooting my 1911 so I started reloading for it. We've only been shooting at 5 yards so she's developed a cocky sense of confidence, thinks she's good enough for head shots etc. I was picking up brass while I let her shoot and I noticed the top of the target was chewed up a little, like someone had shot it with a .410 shotgun. Sure enough she had hit the steel target mount and the super soft 200 grain lead ball just splattered on it, peppering the target with little shards of lead. I didn't think much of it. I went on to shoot my 357's, she went to the bathroom. When she came back I noticed a scratch under her chin, about 3 inches long, like if you had scratched it with a fingernail, just barely a trace of blood. I asked her if she scratched herself, she said no but she said she thought something hit her wife she was shooting. Apparently a little sliver of lead caught her. Nothing serious, just a scratch and she didn't care or seem worried. Glad she was wearing the shooting glasses. Gonna move her back to 7 yards next time. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll try to do this on Wed, when hitting the range with some Ft Worth homies. I have some challenging stuff for us this week. Bring your A game. I have this on the curriculum.LOL....I'll do my best. BTW...If you have some 9mm 124 grains, bring them. If not, 9mm 115 is acceptable. Same with Shawn and Bill. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll try to do this on Wed, when hitting the range with some Ft Worth homies. I have some challenging stuff for us this week. Bring your A game. I have this on the curriculum.LOL....I'll do my best. BTW...If you have some 9mm 124 grains, bring them. If not, 9mm 115 is acceptable. Same with Shawn and Bill. sweet! do we get to learn how to do ninja rolls to 1 handed stovepipe clearings? |
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Quoted: man you are so wrong....ninja rollsQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll try to do this on Wed, when hitting the range with some Ft Worth homies. I have some challenging stuff for us this week. Bring your A game. I have this on the curriculum.LOL....I'll do my best. BTW...If you have some 9mm 124 grains, bring them. If not, 9mm 115 is acceptable. Same with Shawn and Bill. sweet! do we get to learn how to do ninja rolls to 1 handed stovepipe clearings? |
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Quoted: Wait a sec., soowah. Your first score is your final score. You can't just shoot again.  On second thought, your game, your rule. I used another BUG. Plus, it's just fun to challenge myself and train at the same time. My goal was to hopefully get folks outside their comfort zone and train on thing's they're not good at. If anyone shoots this multiple times then I'm cool with it, my goal was met. Internet bragging rights still up for grabs! I'm still trying to wrap my head around the "no shoot" zone. What was the reasoning Kyle gave behind this? I'm guessing it is to gauge trigger control. Mostly. The cross tape is a stand alone target, mostly for rifles. I could have cut the head out of a B27 and put it next to one on another b27 target and said one was a no shoot. Non standard target acquisition, trigger control, mechanical offset and precision shooting. Wait until next months challenge. The tape really forces you to focus, even on the best of terms, plus it's easy to throw on a target. When you throw in non-dominant and single hand shooting then you get really challenged. It also simplifies scoring, shooting the no shoot is bad mkay. Like I said earlier. Anyone can set at the 7yd line and hammer out the center of the bull with a service pistol and your dominant hand. |
ok so a few of us ran this today. I didn't score them but you can tell by the pics. Our rate of fire was a little faster than one round per second and most of us did one handed reloads when the time came. I'm not sure if I like this drill for the simple fact that we spend 99% of our time shooting the area that this drill tells us not to. I have noticed that the VTAC targets has this printed on the back. I'm going to make ot to one of his courses someday so hopefully I'll get a little bit more understanding of it's purpose.
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Quoted: Protest and re score.....ok so a few of us ran this today. I didn't score them but you can tell by the pics. Our rate of fire was a little faster than one round per second and most of us did one handed reloads when the time came. I'm not sure if I like this drill for the simple fact that we spend 99% of our time shooting the area that this drill tells us not to. I have noticed that the VTAC targets has this printed on the back. I'm going to make ot to one of his courses someday so hopefully I'll get a little bit more understanding of it's purpose. http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg314/clharr/gun%20stuff/DSCN0660.jpg http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg314/clharr/gun%20stuff/DSCN0661.jpg http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg314/clharr/gun%20stuff/DSCN0662.jpg http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg314/clharr/gun%20stuff/DSCN0659.jpg Take a look at the size of the tape.  This is a fun little drill. And we all had a good time at the Ft.Worth crew weekly shoot (as we do every week). |
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No worries soowah. I pretty much run around sleep deprived every week and sometimes my brain has trouble proccessing new material. Maybe part of the problem was that we pretty much just blazed right through it. Shoot five, emergency reload, shoot five, emergency reload, shoot five, instead of taking out time on the reloads and getting set back up with a good grip. My training the past few years has focused more along the lines of shooting fast with good hits to the upper chest and brain to make bag guys shit thier britches and die, especially at 7yds. I think thats why I had trouble with this drill and slowing down to make the hits. I think next week we will slow it down a bit and shoot for more accuracy.
I'm proud of these guys tough, they all shot very well. 
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Quoted: I think you might have a valid gripe, looks like I've got to deduct 20 more points from your score! Protest and re score..... Take a look at the size of the tape. http://i40.tinypic.com/34nr7k2.jpg http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg314/clharr/gun%20stuff/DSCN0661.jpg This is a fun little drill. And we all had a good time at the Ft.Worth crew weekly shoot (as we do every week). I'll look back over it after I get some sleep, kinda bug eyed right now. chlarr, I totally agree blasting high center chest is what we're striving for. But that just bores me to tears on a square range. I have to come up with creative ways to make training fun rather than a chore I do week in and week out. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I think you might have a valid gripe, looks like I've got to deduct 20 more points from your score! I have know idea what you are talking about..... I'll look back over it after I get some sleep, kinda bug eyed right now. chlarr, I totally agree blasting high center chest is what we're striving for. But that just bores me to tears on a square range. I have to come up with creative ways to make training fun rather than a chore I do week in and week out. |
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Quoted:
That's probably the best looking new revolver I've seen from Smith & Wesson, what size frame is it built on? MSRP $1k ouch! 
Yeah they are super nice! I almost got one when they first came out. I'm a fan of the 44 special round but I figured my 3'' model 29 that I paid $200 for was good enough.
I don't think it's a N frame, maybe a K? I'm just going by memory when I looked at them. I havent kept up with Smith's frame sizes since I don't really shoot wheel guns much anymore. |
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Quoted:
That's probably the best looking new revolver I've seen from Smith & Wesson, what size frame is it built on? MSRP $1k ouch!
I got it new at a Gunshow in FT Worth from S.A.W. for 699 + tax. I have two of them the 396 44 Spl L frame and a 315 38 Spl K frame 
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Quoted: We should have room....Quoted: This is a fun little drill. And we all had a good time at the Ft.Worth crew weekly shoot (as we do every week). When and where does the FtW crew shoot each week? I may try to join you if there's room for another... The new guy buys the 9mm. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I think you might have a valid gripe, looks like I've got to deduct 20 more points from your score! Protest and re score..... Take a look at the size of the tape. http://i40.tinypic.com/34nr7k2.jpg http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg314/clharr/gun%20stuff/DSCN0661.jpg This is a fun little drill. And we all had a good time at the Ft.Worth crew weekly shoot (as we do every week). I'll look back over it after I get some sleep, kinda bug eyed right now. chlarr, I totally agree blasting high center chest is what we're striving for. But that just bores me to tears on a square range. I have to come up with creative ways to make training fun rather than a chore I do week in and week out. My tape or yours? I used standard Duck tape... |
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Quoted: hrt4me give me a call.Quoted: We should have room....Quoted: This is a fun little drill. And we all had a good time at the Ft.Worth crew weekly shoot (as we do every week). When and where does the FtW crew shoot each week? I may try to join you if there's room for another... The new guy buys the 9mm. Start time is at 4pm and bring a ton of ammo. we will be working on dtaps, hammer pairs,and a few others...  |