Posted: 3/17/2010 4:05:19 PM EDT
| question for the LLEA or lawyer types on board.locally i've seen the cops put a couple cars with overheads on,on major roads.the sign says k-9 checkpoint ahead.if you turn off or turn around they use that as probable cause to stop you.i realize anyone with any sense just drives on.still legal or not?this happened on east bound hiway 73 leading into port arthur texas. |
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Doubt you need to worry about it. The Texas Legislature has turned down DWI checkpoints for years. I don't think any random checkpoint will wash, regardless of what they are looking for. If you see a random K9 checkpoint in Texas let us know and we (and the ACLU)will be all over it like a hobo on a hot dog.
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2006/03/18/1142703465_2894.jpg Now, the Border Patrol/Customs checkpoints, that is a completely different thing and they operate under federal law. EDIT with a clarification. Cops can post a sign saying K-9 checkpoint ahead and not actually set one up. They look for traffic violations like illegal U-turns, stopping on the shoulder, or cutting across medians and bingo! , now they have a probable cause to make a stop and see where it goes from there. Remember. if stopped-all you have to do is present your driver's license and proof of insurance (and of course CHL if applicable) You don't have to answer any questions nor give your consent to search your car. Sure it will piss the cop off when you give them the "Silent Bob" treatment but remember-it's all on tape. Just be prepared to follow any instructions to get out of the car, accept a quick pat down, sit on the curb, etc. as they try to imtimidate you into consenting to search. Sit there with your mouth shut long enough and they gotta let you go, unless you are foolish enough to drive drunk or leave contraband in plain sight or on your person in a manner that feels like a weapon. |
| I don't know about a K-9 stop. But a buddy of mine got pulled over in Arlington at an "insurance and drivers license' check point. They gave him a citation for no front license plate. I understand cities need to make money but wtf? He lives in a nice part of town where this stop was made. He says he was treated with NO respect, talked down to by a bike cop. |
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I submit that checkpoints for drivers license and insurance (and then writing equipment violations to those who have a valid license and insurance) are not permitted under Texas law as they are an unreasonable restriction on the publics right to free travel by detaining all drivers, even those who are in exact compliance with the law. Especially fishing expedition or revenue generation checkpoints. A checkpoint is the same as a traffic stop. You are not free to continue on if you choose not to stop. And a stop requires probable cause. Merely being in a car is is not probable cause.
http://www.gunpundit.com/2008/flood_checkpoint.jpg |
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Quoted:
I submit that checkpoints for drivers license and insurance (and then writing equipment violations to those who have a valid license and insurance) are not permitted under Texas law as they are an unreasonable restriction on the publics right to free travel by detaining all drivers, even those who are in exact compliance with the law. Especially fishing expedition or revenue generation checkpoints. A checkpoint is the same as a traffic stop. You are not free to continue on if you choose not to stop. And a stop requires probable cause. Merely being in a car is is not probable cause. http://www.gunpundit.com/2008/flood_checkpoint.jpg I agree it is bs. |
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They have the "faux K-9" stops in Louisiana as well –– looking for all of the tells which have been previously described. They had one set up on I-20 one night in between Ruston and Monroe before an off ramp, with the cops waiting at the base of said ramp. There was a lady who was intoxicated and saw the sign about .25 miles from the ramp and stops in the middle lane, impeding both lanes of traffic. She was immediately rear-ended by a truck and as we saw it happen, my buddy who I was riding with immediately went to the shoulder to miss the accidents (mind you the center median and outside shoulder were extremely downward sloping grades that weren't vehicle friendly).
As we're sitting there on the shoulder we get rear-ended by an SUV going 50, who in turn was hit by a bob tail. In the end, the "faux K-9 stop" ended up causing a 5-car pile up, one DUI, 6 cracked vertebrae (drunk lady), and two broke arms (two-separate people within the SUV). Luckily my friends and I were okay –– which in hindsight was damn near amazing since we were riding in a Toyota Corolla. The Louisiana Highway Patrol didn't exhibit any Operational Risk Management in setting up that checkpoint. |
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Quoted:
They have the "faux K-9" stops in Louisiana as well –– looking for all of the tells which have been previously described. They had one set up on I-20 one night in between Ruston and Monroe before an off ramp, with the cops waiting at the base of said ramp. There was a lady who was intoxicated and saw the sign about .25 miles from the ramp and stops in the middle lane, impeding both lanes of traffic. She was immediately rear-ended by a truck and as we saw it happen, my buddy who I was riding with immediately went to the shoulder to miss the accidents (mind you the center median and outside shoulder were extremely downward sloping grades that weren't vehicle friendly). As we're sitting there on the shoulder we get rear-ended by an SUV going 50, who in turn was hit by a bob tail. In the end, the "faux K-9 stop" ended up causing a 5-car pile up, one DUI, 6 cracked vertebrae (drunk lady), and two broke arms (two-separate people within the SUV). Luckily my friends and I were okay –– which in hindsight was damn near amazing since we were riding in a Toyota Corolla. The Louisiana Highway Patrol didn't exhibit any Operational Risk Management in setting up that checkpoint. They all went home safely, that's all that matters. |
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Quoted:
They have the "faux K-9" stops in Louisiana as well –– looking for all of the tells which have been previously described. They had one set up on I-20 one night in between Ruston and Monroe before an off ramp, with the cops waiting at the base of said ramp. There was a lady who was intoxicated and saw the sign about .25 miles from the ramp and stops in the middle lane, impeding both lanes of traffic. She was immediately rear-ended by a truck and as we saw it happen, my buddy who I was riding with immediately went to the shoulder to miss the accidents (mind you the center median and outside shoulder were extremely downward sloping grades that weren't vehicle friendly). As we're sitting there on the shoulder we get rear-ended by an SUV going 50, who in turn was hit by a bob tail. In the end, the "faux K-9 stop" ended up causing a 5-car pile up, one DUI, 6 cracked vertebrae (drunk lady), and two broke arms (two-separate people within the SUV). Luckily my friends and I were okay –– which in hindsight was damn near amazing since we were riding in a Toyota Corolla. The Louisiana Highway Patrol didn't exhibit any Operational Risk Management in setting up that checkpoint. I don't think the checkpoint caused the DUI. everything else maybe, but it didn't make her drink and drive. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
They have the "faux K-9" stops in Louisiana as well –– looking for all of the tells which have been previously described. They had one set up on I-20 one night in between Ruston and Monroe before an off ramp, with the cops waiting at the base of said ramp. There was a lady who was intoxicated and saw the sign about .25 miles from the ramp and stops in the middle lane, impeding both lanes of traffic. She was immediately rear-ended by a truck and as we saw it happen, my buddy who I was riding with immediately went to the shoulder to miss the accidents (mind you the center median and outside shoulder were extremely downward sloping grades that weren't vehicle friendly). As we're sitting there on the shoulder we get rear-ended by an SUV going 50, who in turn was hit by a bob tail. In the end, the "faux K-9 stop" ended up causing a 5-car pile up, one DUI, 6 cracked vertebrae (drunk lady), and two broke arms (two-separate people within the SUV). Luckily my friends and I were okay –– which in hindsight was damn near amazing since we were riding in a Toyota Corolla. The Louisiana Highway Patrol didn't exhibit any Operational Risk Management in setting up that checkpoint. I don't think the checkpoint caused the DUI. everything else maybe, but it didn't make her drink and drive. I agree with you –– my only issue is that if you do have someone who's going to act suspicious (DUI, drug carrier, etc.), you might think twice about where you set up the checkpoint. On the interstate, where traffic is moving 70 mph and is usually fairly congested just doesn't seem that safe. A person who e-brakes trying to evade the police is in all likely hood going to effect other traffic, causing collateral damage. The idea of the checkpoints don't bother me –– strategic placement does however. |
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Quoted:
I submit that checkpoints for drivers license and insurance (and then writing equipment violations to those who have a valid license and insurance) are not permitted under Texas law as they are an unreasonable restriction on the publics right to free travel by detaining all drivers, even those who are in exact compliance with the law. Especially fishing expedition or revenue generation checkpoints. A checkpoint is the same as a traffic stop. You are not free to continue on if you choose not to stop. And a stop requires probable cause. Merely being in a car is is not probable cause. http://www.gunpundit.com/2008/flood_checkpoint.jpg Those jackbooted thugs look like Iowa State Troopers. That agency is full of major attitude problems. Hah... I was right... after finding the article on that site, it was in fact the IA Hwy Patrol. They are out of control... Glad I don't live up in that gawd forsaken blue state anymore. |
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Quoted:
The idea of check points does bother me, alot. A search checkpoint without probable cause would cause me a lot of heartburn as well. Insurance and seat belt checks I'm somewhat fine with. Driving is a privilege that you have to follow the correct rules to do: properly licensed, insured, sober, etc. DUI checkpoints though seeming like a good idea, begin to give me pause. Checkpoints that search and seize without proper authority (entering a mil installation for instance being the exception) is way over the line. |
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Quoted: Driving is a privilege that you have to follow the correct rules to do: properly licensed, insured, sober, etc. DUI checkpoints though seeming like a good idea, begin to give me pause.
It's not a privilege to pay for it. Unless they're putting other people in danger, there isn't a reason to stop and detain them. Taking blood from people that refuse to blow is bullshit, too. Welcome to the new America, guys. |
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Seat belt checkpoints are bogus also...
They detain law abiding citizens who have their seat belts on. People who aren't wearing their seat belts will put them on while they wait in line (unless they are morons-then they deserve the ticket) Imagine this: The police throw up a road block (notice they are never set up in affluent areas of town?) to check every person in each vehicle for warrants, then throughly examine the vehicle for equipment violations, and what ever else they find. Where is the probable cause? It is manufactured from things they find AFTER the stop. Why detain the majority of law abiding citizens because you THINK (or profile) that some of them are breaking the law. I think a cop stopping you to verify that you have a drivers license when you have comitted no violations is BS also-they are just fishing for other crimes. Just like when they stop a car for a burned out license plate light. Sorry for ranting, but these things really piss me off. If you surrender your liberty a little at a time, soon you will have none left. http://blogrant.co.uk/Images/Articles/Entry36_176.jpg |