Posted: 9/10/2009 8:06:02 AM EDT
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Can anyone explain to me how 42 states in this great nation can allow the open carry of firearms and, even with Rick Perry supposedly being on the side of legal gun owners, Texas is not one of the 42??? This just makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense that there is not a public outcry among Texans to change this.
Have I been living under a rock or have we just come to accept this as something not worth changing? Edit: my bad... 44 states, not 42, allow public open carry, in some form, to legal gun owners. Texas still ain't one of them. |
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Can anyone explain to me how 42 states in this great nation can allow the open carry of firearms and, even with Rick Perry supposedly being on the side of legal gun owners, Texas is not one of the 42??? This just makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense that there is not a public outcry among Texans to change this. Have I been living under a rock or have we just come to accept this as something not worth changing? California is one of the supposed 42 states that is on the petition/website from where your information came. California does not alow open carry of a loaded handgun to the general population. By that logic, Texas DOES allow open carry. Handgun carry here is generally prohibited unless you on your own premises or premises under your control, or in a motor vehicle that you own or is under your control. Of those two, only one does not allow open carry. Of the other circumstances when carry of a handgun is allowed, only carry under a CHL requires that the handgun be concealed. There are 4 other circumstances when handgun carry is not prohibited, and all of those allow open carry. In fact, under one of those circumstances you MUST open carry. So by the logic in your post, Texas allows open carry. See how facts can be twisted into a great OR sour tasting Kool Aid. |
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Can anyone explain to me how 42 states in this great nation can allow the open carry of firearms and, even with Rick Perry supposedly being on the side of legal gun owners, Texas is not one of the 42??? This just makes no sense to me. It also makes no sense that there is not a public outcry among Texans to change this. Have I been living under a rock or have we just come to accept this as something not worth changing? California is one of the supposed 42 states that is on the petition/website from where your information came. California does not alow open carry of a loaded handgun to the general population. By that logic, Texas DOES allow open carry. Handgun carry here is generally prohibited unless you on your own premises or premises under your control, or in a motor vehicle that you own or is under your control. Of those two, only one does not allow open carry. Of the other circumstances when carry of a handgun is allowed, only carry under a CHL requires that the handgun be concealed. There are 4 other circumstances when handgun carry is not prohibited, and all of those allow open carry. In fact, under one of those circumstances you MUST open carry. So by the logic in your post, Texas allows open carry. See how facts can be twisted into a great OR sour tasting Kool Aid. I'm not sure where you think I got the info. You assumed, I guess. Yes, I can definitely be wrong. The "open carry" I'm talking about (like Kalofornia) is being able to openly carry a handgun (unloaded) in a holster on your belt for all the world to see in a public place (excluding those which are generally excluded: federal buildings, etc...). I'm just guessing, but don't most states that allow open carry do so with some restrictions. I'm not wanting the old wild west here, I'm just trying to figure out how Texas can be this far behind other states in regard to this. As far as the logic of which you speak: Are you saying that Texas DOES allow unloaded handguns to be "openly" carried, like Kalifornia? If that's what you're saying, you are wrong. I cannot walk down the street in Texas with an UNLOADED handgun in plain view. |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. |
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Open carrying an unloaded pistol is the dumbest thing I've heard of. If you seriously think that California is better off because of that then I don't know what to tell you. Open carry has been discussed in here in depth and it's a remnant from reconstruction. It does need to go, but making the arguments you have are misleading and deceptive by nature and begs others to consider you a loon or a fool.
Argue not what other states may or may not have. Argue what is right and just. Freedom is enough reason on it's own. If the pro-rights people call you out on this asshatery, imagine how the antis will react. |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. We do have restricted open carry of handguns and unrestricted carry of longarms |
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Open carrying an unloaded pistol is the dumbest thing I've heard of. If you seriously think that California is better off because of that then I don't know what to tell you. Open carry has been discussed in here in depth and it's a remnant from reconstruction. It does need to go, but making the arguments you have are misleading and deceptive by nature and begs others to consider you a loon or a fool. Argue not what other states may or may not have. Argue what is right and just. Freedom is enough reason on it's own. If the pro-rights people call you out on this asshatery, imagine how the antis will react. I'm asking a question. I obviously wasn't here for the previous discussions. As far as open carrying an unloaded weapon, Kalifornia (I use that one because it's the only one I know for sure) will allow you to carry loaded mags on the same belt as your holster. That, it seems to me, would be better than no weapon at all in a situation that may call for the use of force. I'll take a "couple of seconds to arm" over "run and hope I don't get shot in the back" any day. What arguments have I made that are misleading? What arguments have I made at all other than I think Texas should allow a law abiding citizen to be out in public with his/her handgun and not be forced to conceal it. As it stands now, if I want to walk across the street to my neighbor's house with my gun, I have to put it in a case or I have broken a law. It just seems silly and maybe this is Texas ego thing.... yeah, it ticks me off that a state like Kalifornia allows it and Texas doesn't. |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. We do have restricted open carry of handguns and unrestricted carry of longarms Not in public, we don't. (handguns) |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. That would be the restriction. I can open carry a handgun on private property with permition of the properties owner. Or if I am hunting or the like. But openly and in public? Nope. We do have restricted open carry of handguns and unrestricted carry of longarms Not in public, we don't. (handguns) |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. We do have restricted open carry of handguns and unrestricted carry of longarms Not in public, we don't. (handguns) Right now, tody, we have RESTRICTED open carry of handguns in public. |
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We are not, really
. I'm not wanting the old wild west here, I'm just trying to figure out how Texas can be this far behind other states in regard to this. As far as the logic of which you speak: Are you saying that Texas DOES allow unloaded handguns to be "openly" carried, like Kalifornia? If that's what you're saying, you are wrong. I cannot walk down the street in Texas with an UNLOADED handgun in plain view.
That is not what I wrote. I am trying to make you understand that those who say, "open carry is not alowed in Texas, but is in California" are being disingenious. Yeah, you can open carry in California, with an UNLOADED gun. You can open carry in Texas too. If you are traveling, you can open carry. If you are engaged in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting avtivity and the handgun is commonly used in that activity you can open carry. If you are on premises under your control (even your business, even if it is a public place) you can open carry. As a security guard you MUST open carry. As the person managing the operation of a BAR, you can open carry. No, I cannot strap on my pistol in the open, walk to the local 7-11 and buy a big gulp. Unless I meet one of the exceptions. Those who talk about 42 states that allow open carry are being misleading on puspose. I imagine in many of those 42 states you cannot strap on a pistol in the open, walk to the local 7-11 and buy a big gulp. How many states actually allow you to just strap on in the open and carry away? And forget about federal buildings and alcohol sales, etc. I am not even counting those as restrictions. I am referring to actually going to your local Home Depot like Wyatt Erp. |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. We do have restricted open carry of handguns and unrestricted carry of longarms Not in public, we don't. (handguns) Right now, tody, we have RESTRICTED open carry of handguns in public. Elaborate, please. What restrictions are you talking about. If this is true, when did this happen? Last time I checked, it was illegal for me to openly carry a handgun (even unloaded) in public, in plain sight. I can legally own the weapon but I can't even openly carry a handgun in my own car... it has to be concealed in the trunk or in a case. |
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I used to be opposed to open carry, but then I thought about for awhile and changed my mind. I hope it passes now. BTW, is there a bill in the house or senate that I can call my critters to tell them to vote for it? No. The legislature is no longer in session. Next hope is 2011. But don't hold your breath. |
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I used to be opposed to open carry, but then I thought about for awhile and changed my mind. I hope it passes now. BTW, is there a bill in the house or senate that I can call my critters to tell them to vote for it? Why would anyone be opposed to allowing open carry? |
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I think your stats are wrong if you ate talking about open carry of a handgun without restriction Yep. Way wrong. Even when you exclude polling places and court houses still wrong. But yea, we need it in Texas. I never said "unrestricted". All 42 states that allow open carry have restrictions... but they allow open carry. It just strikes me as unthinkable that Texas would be that far behind 42 other states when it came to laws regarding firearms. We do have restricted open carry of handguns and unrestricted carry of longarms Not in public, we don't. (handguns) Right now, tody, we have RESTRICTED open carry of handguns in public. Elaborate, please. What restrictions are you talking about. If this is true, when did this happen? Last time I checked, it was illegal for me to openly carry a handgun (even unloaded) in public, in plain sight. I can legally own the weapon but I can't even openly carry a handgun in my own car... it has to be concealed in the trunk or in a case. You are very mistaken. Right now, unless you are prohibited by law from possession a firearm, are not a member of a criminal street gang, are not engaging in crime at the time, you can carry a handgun in your vehicle as long as it is not in plain view. It does not have to be in the trunk or in a case. Read penal code section 46.15 (b) Texas Penal Code 46.15(b)
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who: [46.02 is the section that says you cannot carry a handgun on or about your person] 1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution; open carry allowed, that = restricted open cary (2) is traveling; open carry allowed; this is restricted open carry (3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity; open carry allowed (4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if: (A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place of assignment; (B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and (C) the weapon is in plain view;REQUIRED open carry (5) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying; NO open carry allowed (6) holds a security officer commission and a personal protection officer authorization issued by the Texas Private Security Board and is providing personal protection under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code; or (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises. open carry allowed |
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We are not, really
. I'm not wanting the old wild west here, I'm just trying to figure out how Texas can be this far behind other states in regard to this. As far as the logic of which you speak: Are you saying that Texas DOES allow unloaded handguns to be "openly" carried, like Kalifornia? If that's what you're saying, you are wrong. I cannot walk down the street in Texas with an UNLOADED handgun in plain view.
That is not what I wrote. I am trying to make you understand that those who say, "open carry is not alowed in Texas, but is in California" are being disingenious. Yeah, you can open carry in California, with an UNLOADED gun. You can open carry in Texas too. If you are traveling, you can open carry. If you are engaged in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting avtivity and the handgun is commonly used in that activity you can open carry. If you are on premises under your control (even your business, even if it is a public place) you can open carry. As a security guard you MUST open carry. As the person managing the operation of a BAR, you can open carry. No, I cannot strap on my pistol in the open, walk to the local 7-11 and buy a big gulp. Unless I meet one of the exceptions. Those who talk about 42 states that allow open carry are being misleading on puspose. I imagine in many of those 42 states you cannot strap on a pistol in the open, walk to the local 7-11 and buy a big gulp. How many states actually allow you to just strap on in the open and carry away? And forget about federal buildings and alcohol sales, etc. I am not even counting those as restrictions. I am referring to actually going to your local Home Depot like Wyatt Erp. None of those exceptions have anything to do with Mr. General Public Law Abiding Citizen in Public. If I am engaged in hunting, I'm not in public. If I'm traveling (I assume you are talking about traveling in a private vehicle), I'm not in public. If I'm in my own establishment (although it is a public place), that's not out in public. I know I can strap on my exterior holster w/ gun on my own property. Security guards are in the law enforcement business (without being endorsed by the state), that's not Mr. General Public. I AM talking about going to my local 7-11 and buying a big gulp. How many of those other 44 (I know I said 42, but I was wrong) states allow that? I have not looked at every 44 states laws, but according to Opencarry.org, the 44 states that allow open carry will allow you to do just that. BTW... your first post boasted of how you could twist facts and now you want to say, "that's not what I wrote"?????? |
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None of those exceptions have anything to do with Mr. General Public Law Abiding Citizen in Public. If I am engaged in hunting, I'm not in public. If you're hunting on public land (like I do) you must certainly are "in public". If I'm traveling (I assume you are talking about traveling in a private vehicle), I'm not in public.
Presumably you're traveling via public roadways, maybe even staying in a motel, etc. Security guards are in the law enforcement business (without being endorsed by the state),
Uh, no...they are not. |
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You are very mistaken. Right now, unless you are prohibited by law from possession a firearm, are not a member of a criminal street gang, are not engaging in crime at the time, you can carry a handgun in your vehicle as long as it is not in plain view. It does not have to be in the trunk or in a case.
Alright. I meant that it must be concealed (not in plain view). That does not even come close to the definition of "open carry". Read penal code section 46.15 (b)
Texas Penal Code 46.15(b) (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who: [46.02 is the section that says you cannot carry a handgun on or about your person] 1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution; open carry allowed, that = restricted open cary Military: not general public. (2) is traveling; open carry allowed; this is restricted open carry Traveling to the store? No. (3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity; open carry allowed Not in public (4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if: (A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place of assignment; (B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and (C) the weapon is in plain view;REQUIRED open carry All of that = not law abiding citizenry. (5) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying; NO open carry allowed (6) holds a security officer commission and a personal protection officer authorization issued by the Texas Private Security Board and is providing personal protection under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code; or (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises. open carry allowedAgain... not general public. [/quote] Basically, all the restrictions in this code have nothing to do with the everyday, law-abiding, legal gun owner in the state of Texas. |
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Exactly, most of them do not. See the misleading. How many of those 42 states allow one to just open carry a gun you can use in public? Quoted:
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We are not, really
. I'm not wanting the old wild west here, I'm just trying to figure out how Texas can be this far behind other states in regard to this. As far as the logic of which you speak: Are you saying that Texas DOES allow unloaded handguns to be "openly" carried, like Kalifornia? If that's what you're saying, you are wrong. I cannot walk down the street in Texas with an UNLOADED handgun in plain view.
That is not what I wrote. I am trying to make you understand that those who say, "open carry is not allowed in Texas, but is in California" are being disingenuous. Yeah, you can open carry in California, with an UNLOADED gun. You can open carry in Texas too. If you are traveling, you can open carry. If you are engaged in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity and the handgun is commonly used in that activity you can open carry. If you are on premises under your control (even your business, even if it is a public place) you can open carry. As a security guard you MUST open carry. As the person managing the operation of a BAR, you can open carry. No, I cannot strap on my pistol in the open, walk to the local 7-11 and buy a big gulp. Unless I meet one of the exceptions. Those who talk about 42 states that allow open carry are being misleading on purpose. I imagine in many of those 42 states you cannot strap on a pistol in the open, walk to the local 7-11 and buy a big gulp. How many states actually allow you to just strap on in the open and carry away? And forget about federal buildings and alcohol sales, etc. I am not even counting those as restrictions. I am referring to actually going to your local Home Depot like Wyatt Erp. None of those exceptions have anything to do with Mr. General Public Law Abiding Citizen in Public. If I am engaged in hunting, I'm not in public. Define public. How about shooting at the range? That is in public and you certainly open carry there. If I'm traveling (I assume you are talking about traveling in a private vehicle), I'm not in public. I am not talking about "by private vehicle" Read the section of the law I posted. If you are TRAVELING, you are not prohibited from carrying a handgun on or about your person. Open or concealed. Carry in your car is now covered under 46.02, and traveling is not a part of that. If I'm in my own establishment (although it is a public place), that's not out in public. Depends on the business, doesn't it. If you own a restaurant that is "open to the public" you can open carry there. Security guards are in the law enforcement business (without being endorsed by the state), that's not Mr. General Public. Negative, Security Guards are NOT in law enforcement any more than you are.
I AM talking about going to my local 7-11 and buying a big gulp. How many of those other 44 (I know I said 42, but I was wrong) states allow that? I have not looked at every 44 states laws, but according to Opencarry.org, the 44 states that allow open carry will allow you to do just that. Open carry dot org (how did I know that is where you were indoctrinated to the lies?) is being misleading. The facts have been laid out in this thread and are simple.
They make you THINK you can really open carry in California, when in reality you cannot with a gun that will do ya any good. How many other of the 44 states have similar restrictions? You admit you don't know. Before you get all excited then don't you think you should learn? BTW... your first post boasted of how you could twist facts and now you want to say, "that's not what I wrote"?????? Good Grief, you wrote that I said you could open carry an unloaded handgun in Texas, and I did not.
Again, I am trying to show you the bullshit that opencarry is spewing. They say Texas has "no open carry" but that California does. They fail to mention it has to be an unloaded gun. That makes ME suspicious of their data, doesn't it YOU? Then they go on to say that Texas BANS all open carry, which is a lie. If they say that Texas does not allow the general carry of open handguns in public, then they might have some credibility. The bottom line is you want the generally unrestricted open carry of handguns in Texas. Fine, argue that. But it is a false argument to say that 44 other states allow it. Not being able top have you gun loaded seems like a pretty strong restriction to me. Does it not you? |
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You are very mistaken. Right now, unless you are prohibited by law from possession a firearm, are not a member of a criminal street gang, are not engaging in crime at the time, you can carry a handgun in your vehicle as long as it is not in plain view. It does not have to be in the trunk or in a case.
Alright. I meant that it must be concealed (not in plain view). That does not even come close to the definition of "open carry". Read penal code section 46.15 (b)
Again... not general public.
Texas Penal Code 46.15(b) (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who: [46.02 is the section that says you cannot carry a handgun on or about your person] 1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution; open carry allowed, that = restricted open cary Military: not general public. (2) is traveling; open carry allowed; this is restricted open carry Traveling to the store? No. (3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity; open carry allowed Not in public (4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if: (A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's place of assignment; (B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and (C) the weapon is in plain view;REQUIRED open carry All of that = not law abiding citizenry. (5) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying; NO open carry allowed (6) holds a security officer commission and a personal protection officer authorization issued by the Texas Private Security Board and is providing personal protection under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code; or (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises. open carry allowed Basically, all the restrictions in this code have nothing to do with the everyday, law-abiding, legal gun owner in the state of Texas.[/quote] Doesn't matter. Opencarry says that Texas Bans all open carry, which is a lie. |
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None of those exceptions have anything to do with Mr. General Public Law Abiding Citizen in Public. If I am engaged in hunting, I'm not in public. If you're hunting on public land (like I do) you must certainly are "in public". If I'm traveling (I assume you are talking about traveling in a private vehicle), I'm not in public.
Presumably you're traveling via public roadways, maybe even staying in a motel, etc. Security guards are in the law enforcement business (without being endorsed by the state),
Uh, no...they are not. Mr. Parker, My question here is why does Texas not have an open carry law. This would allow the normal, everyday, law-abiding, legal gun owner to walk down a public sidewalk with a legally owned handgun in an openly seen holster. Texas does not currently allow this, right? The quotes you commented on were made in this context only. If you are hunting on public land, although it is called "public" land, we both know you are not mingling with the general public. Traveling on a public roadway, you are still inside a private vehicle. That is not in public. If you stay in a motel, you have rented that room for your private use. That is not public (you could not walk into the lobby of the motel with the gun on your hip). Security guards ARE in the law enforcement business. They operate on a very limited basis but they are certified (those Level III and above) by the state. |
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Again, I am trying to show you the bullshit that opencarry is spewing. They say Texas has "no open carry" but that California does. They fail to mention it has to be an unloaded gun. That makes ME suspicious of their data, doesn't it YOU? Then they go on to say that Texas BANS all open carry, which is a lie. If they say that Texas does not allow the general carry of open handguns in public, then they might have some credibility.
The bottom line is you want the generally unrestricted open carry of handguns in Texas. Fine, argue that. But it is a false argument to say that 44 other states allow it. Not being able top have you gun loaded seems like a pretty strong restriction to me. Does it not you? Point taken but I did not get this info ONLY from opencarry.whatever. I actually stumbled upon them after I started looking for info. You are right, I think we should have generally unrestricted (I know some restrictions are a must) open carry in Texas. As far as California goes, they can openly carry an unloaded handgun to there local 7-11. The state does allow them to carry LOADED magazines on the same belt (I thought I said that before). Stupid? yeah, I guess. At least they have all the means to defend themselves on their person, even if it takes 2-3 seconds to prepare it. That is something we do not have in Texas. That's all I'm saying. I would still try to conceal mine, but what if I woke up one morning and I just didn't feel like shoving it down my pants or wearing a jacket... I'd have that option. |
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Yeah, but if you can qualify for a CHL..........you can have that means of deadly force at your disposal.
Again, I am trying to show you the bullshit that opencarry is spewing. They say Texas has "no open carry" but that California does. They fail to mention it has to be an unloaded gun. That makes ME suspicious of their data, doesn't it YOU? Then they go on to say that Texas BANS all open carry, which is a lie. If they say that Texas does not allow the general carry of open handguns in public, then they might have some credibility.
The bottom line is you want the generally unrestricted open carry of handguns in Texas. Fine, argue that. But it is a false argument to say that 44 other states allow it. Not being able top have you gun loaded seems like a pretty strong restriction to me. Does it not you? Point taken but I did not get this info ONLY from opencarry.whatever. I actually stumbled upon them after I started looking for info. You are right, I think we should have generally unrestricted (I know some restrictions are a must) open carry in Texas. As far as California goes, they can openly carry an unloaded handgun to there local 7-11. The state does allow them to carry LOADED magazines on the same belt (I thought I said that before). Stupid? yeah, I guess. At least they have all the means to defend themselves on their person, even if it takes 2-3 seconds to prepare it. That is something we do not have in Texas. And don't get me wrong, I have mixed feelings about open carry, but thats a whole 'nother thread. ;) |
| OP I understand your point, but method is wrong. The ones you need to convince are lawmakers who (usually) are pretty smart. If you used your argument on me, I would disregard you and anything else that came out of your mouth (I'm not trying to insult you, you just need to look at your audience. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed? Sounds like one of those carpetbagger laws passed after the Civil War or during the Cattle wars in the 1880's and was never taken off the books. Up until a few years ago it was still illegal to carry a pair of wire cutters on your person.
If the open carry laws are that old I'm sure there hasn't been a public outcry to repeal it until now. There were two bills introduced during the last session but they never made it to a committee hearing I don't think. Alice Tripp of the TSRA said they would support an open carry bill if someone were to push it through. She said they had too much time and money tied up in the parking lot and college carry bills to give much time to open carry. I'm sure the bulk of their time and efforts in the next session will be to get these two passed. Reality is getting those two passed will benefit a greater number of people who will actually use it than any type of open carry bill. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed? Sounds like one of those carpetbagger laws passed after the Civil War or during the Cattle wars in the 1880's and was never taken off the books. Up until a few years ago it was still illegal to carry a pair of wire cutters on your person. If I'm not mistaken it was in the early 1870s. It is things like this that are why I believe every law should have a sunset clause built into it. If it isn't worth voting it back in every so often, it really shouldn't be a law. And if legislators had stuff like renewing old laws to do to keep them busy maybe they would quit thinking they have to keep adding more and more laws to a system that is already so massive and complex that nobody could possibly ever know it all. |
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Mr. Parker, My question here is why does Texas not have an open carry law. This would allow the normal, everyday, law-abiding, legal gun owner to walk down a public sidewalk with a legally owned handgun in an openly seen holster. Texas does not currently allow this, right? The quotes you commented on were made in this context only. If you are hunting on public land, although it is called "public" land, we both know you are not mingling with the general public. Traveling on a public roadway, you are still inside a private vehicle. That is not in public. If you stay in a motel, you have rented that room for your private use. That is not public (you could not walk into the lobby of the motel with the gun on your hip). So you have one very specific definition of "in public" that you want to have addressed, to the exclusion of all other meanings. Security guards ARE in the law enforcement business. They operate on a very limited basis but they are certified (those Level III and above) by the state.
What police powers, over and above those possessed by ordinary citizens, does a Level III-certified security guard possess? |
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Quoted: I know, right. That little tidbit keeps popping up and just shows how ill informed the OP is on his arguments. Security guards ARE in the law enforcement business. They operate on a very limited basis but they are certified (those Level III and above) by the state. What police powers, over and above those possessed by ordinary citizens, does a Level III-certified security guard possess? One more time.....Security guards I,II, III or PPO are NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT. You have to be at least TCLEOSE certified to be a peace officer in TX. Security guards do not enforce any laws, other than what a normal citizen can ie...felonies in view of guard/person. ETA: OP, instead of whining here on an internet forum I suggest you become an advocate for OC in TX. Set up a meeting with your state reps, or all the reps for that matter and get them on board. It's not a matter of no one wanting to have OC restrictions eased or just done away with, we've had bigger fights the past 10+ years. Only within those 10 years have we had a favorable cliamate to get gun legislation through. Ann Richards was not a friend to us. The tide did not start turning until G.W. B was Gov. Luckily Perry was also very pro gun. But.....They can't sign a bill to law until the legislature gives them something to sign. I urge you to put your advocacy hat on and get busy. |
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I know, right. That little tidbit keeps popping up and just shows how ill informed the OP is on his arguments.
Security guards ARE in the law enforcement business. They operate on a very limited basis but they are certified (those Level III and above) by the state.
What police powers, over and above those possessed by ordinary citizens, does a Level III-certified security guard possess? One more time.....Security guards I,II, III or PPO are NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT. You have to be at least TCLEOSE certified to be a peace officer in TX. Security guards do not enforce any laws, other than what a normal citizen can ie...felonies in view of guard/person. ETA: OP, instead of whining here on an internet forum I suggest you become an advocate for OC in TX. Set up a meeting with your state reps, or all the reps for that matter and get them on board. It's not a matter of no one wanting to have OC restrictions eased or just done away with, we've had bigger fights the past 10+ years. Only within those 10 years have we had a favorable cliamate to get gun legislation through. Ann Richards was not a friend to us. The tide did not start turning until G.W. B was Gov. Luckily Perry was also very pro gun. But.....They can't sign a bill to law until the legislature gives them something to sign. I urge you to put your advocacy hat on and get busy. First, if everyone would just utilize their reading and comprehension skills that they (supposedly) learned in elementary school, they would realize that this started as a QUESTION. After all the arguing of semantics and name calling, 2 pages in someone finally just answers the question (thank you). Second, I never said that a security guard was a state certified peace officer. I said that their ability to open carry was directly tied to their job which is the law enforcement business. I even said that they operate on a VERY LIMITED basis in that regard. I know they are not police officers and I never said they were. My question was regarding the fact that Texas has no open carry law. That's all. My question was why. I guess I should have typed out "for the law abiding citizenry". There was a lot more read into my question than what was there. I assumed, since I was on arfcom, that the audience I was posing this question to would be 1. knowledgeable enough to understand what "open carry" implied and 2. knowledgeable enough to answer the simple question of why we don't have it in Texas. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Does the TX penal code define "Traveling"? I'd like to know that, myself. OK, last time. Traveling is not defined in the TX penal code. There were restrictions put into section 46.02 to remedy the "traveling" issue. Can you open carry a loaded handgun in TX? Yes you can. Are there restriction on carrying a loaded hangun openly in TX? Yes there are. Can you openly carry a handgun anywhere you damn well please in TX? NO. Security guards do not in any way shape or fashion provide law enforcement function. They are a uniformed deterrent who observes and reports criminal activity to law enforcement. They have the same law enforcement capacity as any other civilian. |
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Small point of correction. 46.02 was changed to a allow car carry without regard for the traveling status of the person. Traveling still remains as a non-applicability to all of 46.02.
Traveling is not defined in the TX penal code. There were restrictions put into section 46.02 to remedy the "traveling" issue. Security guards do not in any way shape or fashion provide law enforcement function. They are a uniformed deterrent who observes and reports criminal activity to law enforcement. They have the same law enforcement capacity as any other civilian.
Yep. Security guards also are responsibly for safety issues. Guards are not required under the law, as law enforcement is, to pursue and apprehend lawbreakers. |
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First, if everyone would just utilize their reading and comprehension skills that they (supposedly) learned in elementary school, they would realize that this started as a QUESTION. I'll tell you what....when you demonstrate a sufficient command of the English language to stop repeating the same ill-informed crap because you just can't comprehend why it's wrong, THEN I'll entertain condescending criticisms like that one from you. But not until. After all the arguing of semantics...
It was a question about the law. In the law, semantics are quite important. and name calling,
Please point us to all the "name calling" that's been going on here. 2 pages in someone finally just answers the question (thank you).
Your question was addressed multiple times on the first page. You just didn't like the form the answers took. Second, I never said that a security guard was a state certified peace officer. I said that their ability to open carry was directly tied to their job which is the law enforcement business. I even said that they operate on a VERY LIMITED basis in that regard. I know they are not police officers and I never said they were.
You said they were in the "law enforcement business". They are not. You even explicitely claimed some special significance for Level III certification and above in that regard. When questioned on that significance you offered nothing. My question was regarding the fact that Texas has no open carry law. That's all. My question was why. I guess I should have typed out "for the law abiding citizenry". There was a lot more read into my question than what was there. I assumed, since I was on arfcom, that the audience I was posing this question to would be 1. knowledgeable enough to understand what "open carry" implied and 2. knowledgeable enough to answer the simple question of why we don't have it in Texas.
Given the multiple factually incorrect statements you've made so far I really don't think you ought to be casting knowledge stones in that glass house of yours. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF Thanks. That's the info I was looking for. There for a minute I was afraid I was going to have no choice but to believe that Texas DID have open carry. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF Thanks. That's the info I was looking for. There for a minute I was afraid I was going to have no choice but to believe that Texas DID have open carry. You are the kind of guy that would argue with a street sign and take the wrong road. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF Thanks. That's the info I was looking for. There for a minute I was afraid I was going to have no choice but to believe that Texas DID have open carry. You are the kind of guy that would argue with a street sign and take the wrong road. No, not really. I never wanted to argue at all. I asked why we don't have open carry in Texas and you and a few others tried to argue that we did have open carry in Texas. Our definitions of "open carry" are just different. You see open carry as the ability to openly carry a handgun in public as long as you meet a short list of qualifications (military, police officer, security guard on the job, etc...), right? I am describing "open carry" as the ability to openly carry a handgun in public as long as you DO NOT meet a short list of DISqualifiers (no felons, not in federal buildings, etc...) basically, if you can legally own a gun. That's what the Texas legislature has discussed in the last year or two and that's what my question was concerning. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF Thanks. That's the info I was looking for. There for a minute I was afraid I was going to have no choice but to believe that Texas DID have open carry. You are the kind of guy that would argue with a street sign and take the wrong road. No, not really. I never wanted to argue at all. I asked why we don't have open carry in Texas and you and a few others tried to argue that we did have open carry in Texas. Our definitions of "open carry" are just different. You see open carry as the ability to openly carry a handgun in public as long as you meet a short list of qualifications (military, police officer, security guard on the job, etc...), right? I am describing "open carry" as the ability to openly carry a handgun in public as long as you DO NOT meet a short list of DISqualifiers (no felons, not in federal buildings, etc...) basically, if you can legally own a gun. That's what the Texas legislature has discussed in the last year or two and that's what my question was concerning. You forgot to mention your rantings about 44 other states, which was the catalyst for the reaction you received here. And the legislature has not even considered it. It was a tremendous battle to get concealed carry. You won't see open carry here for a long time, if ever. |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF Interestingly enough, the original law gave the governor the authority to suspend the prohibitions in counties where Indians were raising hell (on the warpath). |
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When was the law banning open carry passed. "An Act Regulating the Right to Keep and Bear Arms," approved on August 13, 1870, made it illegal for one to "have about his person a bowie-knife, dirk or butcher-knife, or fire-arms, whether known as a six-shooter, gun or pistol of any kind" at any church or religious assembly, school, ball room "or other social gathering composed of ladies and gentlemen," or election precinct.[143] The act was fairly limited, although its effect on cooks with butcher knives at social gatherings is unclear. The far more draconian statute was passed on April 12, 1871, entitled "An Act to regulate the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons."[144] For the first time, Texas prohibited the bearing of all arms (p.658)other than rifles and shotguns at any place off of one's premises. Today's statute derives from the 1871 act passed by the Reconstruction legislature. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_review_articles/texas.PDF Thanks. That's the info I was looking for. There for a minute I was afraid I was going to have no choice but to believe that Texas DID have open carry. You are the kind of guy that would argue with a street sign and take the wrong road. No, not really. I never wanted to argue at all. I asked why we don't have open carry in Texas and you and a few others tried to argue that we did have open carry in Texas. Our definitions of "open carry" are just different. You see open carry as the ability to openly carry a handgun in public as long as you meet a short list of qualifications (military, police officer, security guard on the job, etc...), right? I am describing "open carry" as the ability to openly carry a handgun in public as long as you DO NOT meet a short list of DISqualifiers (no felons, not in federal buildings, etc...) basically, if you can legally own a gun. That's what the Texas legislature has discussed in the last year or two and that's what my question was concerning. You forgot to mention your rantings about 44 other states, which was the catalyst for the reaction you received here. And the legislature has not even considered it. It was a tremendous battle to get concealed carry. You won't see open carry here for a long time, if ever. Sorry, I didn't mean for it to come across as "rantings". If I did I would have used profanity (I have seen how arfcom grades their rants). I admitted before that the other states discussion come purely from a Texas ego. My bad, I guess. I just wanted you to know what got me considering this. Here's where I'm getting some of my info on that. Please show me if it is wrong. other states info Open carry has been discussed and considered, although the idea is in it's infancy as far as the legislature goes. A bill has not been drafted, but it has a possible sponsor and the support of the Governor (if it ever gets to him). here I agree with you. I don't think we will see it for a long time. Hopefully it will not be "never". I know it takes a long time for anything like this to get pushed through (if it can be pushed through). For the record, I think we should have it without licensing, as long as you can legally own the gun. I understand why many in the firearms community would be against it because the training and licensing for CCL is a revenue generating business. I would even like to see it passed even if it requires the training and licensing. It would be a compromise, but I would welcome it. It will be a long, uphill battle. |