Posted: 2/7/2007 6:37:58 PM EDT
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I remember the thread recently about the sign off process for suppressors / SBRs here in Austin and I can't find it. It must've gone to old thread heaven. There were some good tips there on what to do, who to see, and how to get it done. Will those in the know please repost the process? I have 2 suppressors on the way. I know I need to get duplicate passport photos from Walgreens. Check. Now, I have to get ATF approved fingerprinted on their ATF approved cards. My dealer said the ORI (whatever that is) must read "DCATF Firearms and Explosives Div". Where do I need to go to do that, and what is the cost? Then I need to fill out the Form 4 paperwork with my dealer. After it is all filled out and I have the fingerprint cards and the passport photos attached, where do I need to go to get the form signed for approval by the Sherriff? I recall one poster had a specific person to get the forms to to get them going in a hurry. Then I send the forms off to ATF in Atlanta with my check. If anyone can help with the questions, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance for helping out an NFA noob, I should have written all of this info down from the previous post. |
You will need 2 forms per suppressor, so you'll need 4 photos.
You can order FBI FD-258LE - NFA fingerprint cards from the ATF Distribution Center. They are free. Order 2 cards per suppressor. |
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Form 4's (tax paid transfers) go to Atlanta. Form 1's (SBR's, SBS anything you make) still go to Martinsburg WV. National Firearms Act Branch 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 You need to order FD-258's (finger print cards) from here : atf It's funny, because the ORI for the explosives license used to be in Atlanta.  No wonder my APP is taking so long. |
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I can help answer your questions if you live in Travis County as I have done approximately 15 NFA transfer (give or take) in Travis over the past 6+ years. I may be of some help for Williamson but if not I could point you in the right direction should I not be able to help. The first thing is whether you live in Travis or Williamson County. If you live in Travis the signoff for suppressors should not be an issue. If you live in Williamson it could be dicey. If you are in Round Rock the PD Chief will sign, however if you are in unicorporated Williamson, you will need to create a trust of LLC as the Williamson County Sheriff will not sign off on suppressors anymore. (Changed his mind about a year ago after somebody purportedly "off-ed" a neighbors pet with one. If you are Travis and this is your first NFA Transfer request, I would recommend you go down to the Travis County courthouse (the Thurman Blackwell building) at 11th and Guadalupe. Go to the Travis County Sheriffs office located on the 1st floor (hang a right after going through the metal detectors). At the desk, let the clerk know that you are here to drop off some paperwork for an NFA transfer or "machinegun/silencer" permit (it is OK to use this terminology to jog their brains). Sometimes the ladies are the front desk don't know what NFA is.... They should hand you a extra form to fill out (Travis County specific) for your NFA signoff request. If they still looked confused, tell them to call Jessica Sammons and ask her as she processes all the NFA paperwork for Sheriff Hamilton. You will need to leave you completely filled out forms with Jessica and if she is not there to leave them to her attention at the desk. You will also need to request to be fingerprinted. They will give you an ID badge to go to the second floor and down the hall. There is a fingerprint station and a deputy will fingerprint you. The cost is $20 per set and $10 for each additional set, if I remember correctly. They have FBI fingerprint cards onsite and I have never had a problem in the past when I used to get my fingerprinting done by the Sheriff office, but know just use the cards that I order from the ATF website. Ideally on your visit to the Sheriffs office you will have completed the following. 1. Filled out the Travis County "machinegun permit" paperwork. You only have to fill this out once and they will keep it on file and use it to process the local background check on you. 2. Got your fingerprint cards filled out. You will need two print cards per transfer. 3. Gave your paperwork directly to or left your NFA forms in the inter-office mail for Jessica. I use one of the 6x9 manilla envelopes and put an extra self addressed stamped envelope that they can use to return the completed forms. Of note.. the signoff process takes awhile. The fastest time I have had is about 7 days and the longest took about 6 months (under Sheriff Frazier). The latest forms had processed took right about a 40 days. Arrived at the Sheriffs office mid December and got them back in the mail about a week ago. If you dropped them off and it has been 30 days, I would then contact Jessica for an update. She is very nice, however this is not her or the Sheriffs primary job and dealing with folks NFA paperwork is not their top priority. As always, they don't have to sign these forms and there was a period in time in the recent past when there was a signoff problem under the old Sheriff. I would recommend that you dress appropriately when going to the Sheriffs office and always be polite and patient with the folks that work there. Not only for your benefit but for the rest of the NFA community in Austin. James Austin, Texas |
If your suppressors are already paid for and shipping from the manufacturer to your dealer and you cannot get a CLEO sig for your F4 you have a couple of options. 1. Try and get you money back less a restocking fee. 2. Once the suppressors arrive at your dealer, sell them to somebody else and have them transfer on a tax free F3 to the purchasers dealer. 3. Set up a LLC or Corporation and have the items transferred to the corporate entity bypassing the CLEO requirement. 4. Establish a legitimate & legal second residence in another County/Town where you can obtain a CLEO signature. Perform the transfer to your second residence. These are about the limits of your options. James Austin, Texas |
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Has anyone contacted their Sheriff's office to inquire about sign-off's before spending $ on Title II items? I imagine it's possible that the Sheriff might not even know about NFA if you're in a very small town or is this common knowledge? I read the article in the recent issue of Small Arms Review about starting a trust. That sounds better than a Corp. No yearly fee's, etc. Thanks! |
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Thanks for all of the info, I really appreciate it. I live in Travis County. My dealer said it is a non-issue getting the forms signed by the Sherriff. Clean record = signed NFA forms. Hence the suppressors on the way. You cannot get signatures preemptively, if I understand correctly. Maybe there should be a sticky at the top of these hometown forums so this very helpful info can be saved for each locality by county? Just a thought. I will be printing out this thread to keep in a file!  Thanks again! |
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Not to hijack this thread... but if the Travis County Sheriff (who I've always been lead to believe is a liberal Democrat) will sign off on NFA items, would it be safe to assume that he won't harrass people who apply to get a C&R FFL (03)? I've been wanting to get one of those but I've been worried about getting hassled and I live in an area of Travis county (Northtown M.U.D. -- Pflugerville address but not in the city limits of Pflugerville) that is under the Sheriff's office as CLEO. Does anyone here in Travis county have a C&R? If so, have you had any trouble with the Sheriff's office bothering you? |
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"Clean record = signed NFA forms. Hence the suppressors on the way. You cannot get signatures preemptively, if I understand correctly." I didn't mean get any signatures preemptively, just talk to the Sheriff or Chief of Police. If they tell you straight out "No, I won't sign" then look into LLC or a Trust. I don't know much about C&R FFL- it's for collecting, right? Is that why you could be caused legal trouble, for collecting instead of selling firearms with that specific FFL? |
so based on this, do you start the process of getting the suppressor enroute/whatever (if dealer has in stock) or do you get the signed paperwork back first? I ask, because I plan to start this process next week, just need to know which direction to go. THANKS |
Or 5. Set up a trust and have the items transferred to that legal entity bypassing the CLEO requirement. |
That's outrageous! Signoffs in Montgomery County take a couple of days. |
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Why dont you just do a revocable living trust? 1. Nothing to buy but the Willmaker software for $15 on Ebay and the cost of a notary's signature. 2. No photos, sign offs, or other hassles. 3. You can keep the items forever with no paperwork to send to the state, no annual fees, etc. just like personal ownership. 4. You can assign an unlimited number of trustees and add and remove them at will like an LLC but without sending anything to the state. So you get all the positives of an LLC with the positives of personal ownership. Oh, and it still works if you move to another state too. |
I could not get a signature for a suppressor in Montgomery County. Now that I kow about the RLT why would I ever bother trying again? Notary signatures take 5 minutes. |
Wow... that's interesting. Do you have a link to the whole process? I'm not doubting you, but it sounds almost too good to be true! What happens to the NFA items when you croak? Can you 'will' them to someone else? I am very interested in this process... |
Willmaker allows you to add and subtract successor trustees and beneficiaries at will. (Your successor trustee takes over when you die or become incapacitated.)
Living Trust FAQ at nolo.com
Your successor trustee transfers them to your beneficiaries for you after you die. |
If the trust is making an NFA weapon on a Form 1, the trust's name, city and state (or recognized abbreviations thereof) needs to be engraved on the frame, receiver, or barrel. See 27 CFR 479.102. If the trust is buying an NFA weapon on a Form 4, no further engraving is required. |
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Wow, I thought setting up a trust would take a lawyer! Anyone know why the Trust route is only now being discussed re: NFA items? Over how many years of reading about machine guns, I've never seen it mentioned until a couple wks ago. Thanks for the great info! If anyone gets a trust set up soon, please post info! |
You probably don't want to go the trust route if you're planning to move to Missouri, since trusts can't get an FFL, not even a C&R.
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None whatsoever.
You can hire an attorney to draw up a Declaration of Trust for you, or you can use a program like Quicken WillMaker to do it for you.
Just sign and notarize your Declaration of Trust. Take very good care of the original. I suggest keeping it in a safe deposit box. |
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You can go with a trust or any other type of legal entity that can legally own property as far as I understand it. Their are two advantages I see to doing a F4 under your name directly. 1. This is the most legally accepted way to transfer a NFA firearm. There have been "rumors" in the past that the ATF may stop and/or re-examine transfers that have been completed through a "legal entity" for the sole purpose of bypassing the CLEO signature requirement. My personal take is that this is an extremely small possibility and nobody has ever been able to confirm but with the Dems in control it *may* be best to do a personal transfer if a CLEO sig is available. 2. If you are stopped with an NFA weapon in Texas, NFA weapons are by default illegal in Texas and by having them Federally registered is a defense to prosecution. So having a completely filled out F4 with your mugshot with their bosses signature on the back of the form can help defuse a potentially stresssful situation. In Texas you may beat the rap but not the ride or confiscation and the F4 is your only defense to either on the side of the highway. There are benefits to both transfer methods and I have done both personal and LLC based transfers in the past, but do personal transfers whenever possible. Just my 2 cents and I am not a lawyer. Good luck with your transfer and decision. James Austin, Texas |
The way I understood it from other threads, if the LEO see your completed and approved form 4, you are good to go. Doesn't matter if their bosses sig is on it or not, they have no cause to give you grief. I hope, anyway! |