Posted: 12/16/2015 2:34:06 PM EDT
I know OC is legal here in LA. A friend asked how much of the pistol has to be sticking out in plain view to be not considered concealed. I honestly hadn't thought about it before and I'm not internets savvy to find the shit myself.  I have tried though, so there's that. I assume you could use an iwb as long as your outermost layer of clothing isn't hiding it. Ex: wearing a shirt tucked into jeans with the iwb isn't concealed. It may be difficult to see, but isn't hidden.
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I am not a lawyer, but I would suggest an OWB holster if you are going to open carry.
Firstly, when carrying openly, I really suggest some retention capability in the holster itself, preferably 2 levels, but at a minimum one, and generally speaking, few IWB holsters have any. Secondly, if you are in a place that is generally unfriendly to 2A issues, I think it would be better to be able to easily demonstrate your intention to openly display the weapon with an OWB holster, to avoid the potential for the prosecution to argue that instead of carrying openly, you were in fact carrying concealed, but failed. |
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Thanks bud. I'm not a lawyer either and this was more of an information for lack of knowledge question. When I do carry, since I don't have my ccw yet, I carry in a Blackhawk serpa. I saw a gentleman with a tucked in shirt with an iwb at the home depot once. It caught my eye, but wasn't EASILY visible. Nobody said anything and I hadn't really thought about it until I was asked the question. Personally, I feel concealed is the best option.
Thanks again scothcy! |
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I looked there. I couldn't find anywhere where it specifies how much of the gun has to be visible. I'm still like scotchy where I personally carry an owb. |
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I looked there. I couldn't find anywhere where it specifies how much of the gun has to be visible. I'm still like scotchy where I personally carry an owb. Quoted:
I looked there. I couldn't find anywhere where it specifies how much of the gun has to be visible. I'm still like scotchy where I personally carry an owb. Well, I carry concealed in an IWB, myself. The law does not give any specifications on how much of a gun needs to be visible, it just says: §95. Illegal carrying of weapons
A. Illegal carrying of weapons is: (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person; or{snipped the rest} I would certainly argue that a person walking down the sidewalk with the butt of his/her pistol visible, but the rest of the weapon in an IWB holster, is not violating R.S. 14:95. My concern, were I to OC, would be that in certain jurisdictions which are unfriendly to 2A rights it might be seized upon as a pretext for charging someone. |
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There was a Louisiana Supreme Court decision in a case (I think it was State v. Ferrand, but my brain is getting old) that said that all that was necessary was that a weapon was identifiable as such for it not to be concealed, similar to scotchy's personal take. There's another case, whose name I can't recall, that says that an openly carried firearm is NOT grounds, in and of itself, for police to stop and question a person. There must be some "reasonably articulable suspicion" that a crime has taken place or is about to take place (that's from Terry v. Ohio, the national standard for police to stop and question someone).
In other words, if it's obviously holstered, and the carrier is not ranting about killing everyone in the room, then he's OK. However, as scotchy cautions, there are jurisdictions where the authorities don't like OC and will give you hell for it. LOCAL spent considerable time and money contacting every law enforcement agency in the state in a massive educational campaign. Those agencies would have a difficult time defending themselves against a civil action that might arise from an intentional transgression of rights. But keep in mind that LOCAL's motivation in this was an effort to stem the growing (at that time) number of conflicts between LEOs and OCers. The idea was to bring a calm and reasoned approach to what was often seen as a hostile and unnecessarily confrontational situation. |
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I looked there. I couldn't find anywhere where it specifies how much of the gun has to be visible. I'm still like scotchy where I personally carry an owb. Quoted:
I looked there. I couldn't find anywhere where it specifies how much of the gun has to be visible. I'm still like scotchy where I personally carry an owb. Louisiana Revised Statute 14:95. Illegal carrying of weapons A. Illegal carrying of weapons is: (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person There is nothing that dictates the amount that has to show. But the law does leave your intent up to the interpretation of those whose job it is to interpret the law. Is a jacket that blows over your OWB holster a sign that you intended to conceal it? And why are you looking to carry? If it's to make a point, ok. If it's for protection, why advertise that you have a gun and allow the bad guy to get the jump on you? If you choose to go somewhere where you feel you need to carry, why not choose to go somewhere else? I'm all for the right to open carry. From a tactical perspective, I'm not a fan of open carry in practice. Get a CCW and be done with the issue. Just my opinion. |
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There was a Louisiana Supreme Court decision in a case (I think it was State v. Ferrand, but my brain is getting old) that said that all that was necessary was that a weapon was identifiable as such for it not to be concealed, similar to scotchy's personal take. There's another case, whose name I can't recall, that says that an openly carried firearm is NOT grounds, in and of itself, for police to stop and question a person. There must be some "reasonably articulable suspicion" that a crime has taken place or is about to take place (that's from Terry v. Ohio, the national standard for police to stop and question someone). In other words, if it's obviously holstered, and the carrier is not ranting about killing everyone in the room, then he's OK. However, as scotchy cautions, there are jurisdictions where the authorities don't like OC and will give you hell for it. Quoted:
There was a Louisiana Supreme Court decision in a case (I think it was State v. Ferrand, but my brain is getting old) that said that all that was necessary was that a weapon was identifiable as such for it not to be concealed, similar to scotchy's personal take. There's another case, whose name I can't recall, that says that an openly carried firearm is NOT grounds, in and of itself, for police to stop and question a person. There must be some "reasonably articulable suspicion" that a crime has taken place or is about to take place (that's from Terry v. Ohio, the national standard for police to stop and question someone). In other words, if it's obviously holstered, and the carrier is not ranting about killing everyone in the room, then he's OK. However, as scotchy cautions, there are jurisdictions where the authorities don't like OC and will give you hell for it. All it takes is for something to look like it's covering the weapon to give the LEO "reasonably articulable suspicion" that the crime of illegal carry of a weapon has taken place. Quoted:LOCAL spent considerable time and money contacting every law enforcement agency in the state in a massive educational campaign. Those agencies would have a difficult time defending themselves against a civil action that might arise from an intentional transgression of rights. But keep in mind that LOCAL's motivation in this was an effort to stem the growing (at that time) number of conflicts between LEOs and OCers. The idea was to bring a calm and reasoned approach to what was often seen as a hostile and unnecessarily confrontational situation. Now that's funny right there. I'm not knocking the efforts of LOCAL. I'm commenting on the effectiveness of their efforts. |
| I haven't gotten my ccw yet, but as I stated in the OP, this is an information thread because I was asked this question and could not find a definitive answer. I would much rather carry concealed rather than open. Concealed is obviously the best option, but not everyone has that option. |
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I'm not knocking the efforts of LOCAL. I'm commenting on the effectiveness of their efforts. I guess it depends on your definition of "effectiveness." I've personally seen a LOCAL pamphlet on the bulletin board at the NOPD 4th District with a notation urging all to read it. LOCAL was involved in getting the city of Amite to rescind an anti-OC ordinance. The LSP refers OC questioners to the LOCAL website. The LOCAL president has spoken to community groups at the request of some LEO along side presenters on CC and home security. Most importantly from LOCAL's perspective, some LEO have generally reacted positively to the contacts from LOCAL, once they understand that LOCAL is not trying to provoke incidents to be videoed and posted to the internet, but rather is trying to be a source of information for anyone interested in exercising their right to self protection. |
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I guess it depends on your definition of "effectiveness." I've personally seen a LOCAL pamphlet on the bulletin board at the NOPD 4th District with a notation urging all to read it. LOCAL was involved in getting the city of Amite to rescind an anti-OC ordinance. The LSP refers OC questioners to the LOCAL website. The LOCAL president has spoken to community groups at the request of some LEO along side presenters on CC and home security. Most importantly from LOCAL's perspective, some LEO have generally reacted positively to the contacts from LOCAL, once they understand that LOCAL is not trying to provoke incidents to be videoed and posted to the internet, but rather is trying to be a source of information for anyone interested in exercising their right to self protection. Quoted:
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I'm not knocking the efforts of LOCAL. I'm commenting on the effectiveness of their efforts. I guess it depends on your definition of "effectiveness." I've personally seen a LOCAL pamphlet on the bulletin board at the NOPD 4th District with a notation urging all to read it. LOCAL was involved in getting the city of Amite to rescind an anti-OC ordinance. The LSP refers OC questioners to the LOCAL website. The LOCAL president has spoken to community groups at the request of some LEO along side presenters on CC and home security. Most importantly from LOCAL's perspective, some LEO have generally reacted positively to the contacts from LOCAL, once they understand that LOCAL is not trying to provoke incidents to be videoed and posted to the internet, but rather is trying to be a source of information for anyone interested in exercising their right to self protection. I work for NOPD. I've never seen anyone from LOCAL nor can I remember seeing any information from LOCAL. I believe you when you say there is a pamphlet in one of the stations. I've just never seen it there or at any other station. I've personally instructed several co-workers on the gun laws of the state, including the open carry laws. Those officers obviously had not received the information from LOCAL. So in my professional experience, their massive educational campaign was not lasting and did not make a big impact. In fact, I had to google LOCAL to even find out who they were. So they have also not made an impression in my personal life. My definition of effectiveness is the textbook definition, "the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired result." Based on the mission statement on their website, I would have to say they have not been very effective. Again, I applaud them for their effort. Just not for their effectiveness. |
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I am the President of the Florida Parishes Chapter of LOCAL. Back in 2010 and 11 we sent packets to every police and sheriff dept in the state. It was up to your dept to notify you about OC. We have had run ins with Orleans Parish Police, so we just avoid Orleans all together. If you want to learn about OC why don’t you attend one of our meetings? The Florida Parishes chapter of LOCAL is having their January meeting at the IHOP in Slidell next to Academy Sports. We meet at 6:30pm.
Wolf |
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I work for NOPD. I've never seen anyone from LOCAL nor can I remember seeing any information from LOCAL. I believe you when you say there is a pamphlet in one of the stations. I've just never seen it there or at any other station. I've personally instructed several co-workers on the gun laws of the state, including the open carry laws. Those officers obviously had not received the information from LOCAL. So in my professional experience, their massive educational campaign was not lasting and did not make a big impact. In fact, I had to google LOCAL to even find out who they were. So they have also not made an impression in my personal life. My definition of effectiveness is the textbook definition, "the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired result." Based on the mission statement on their website, I would have to say they have not been very effective. Again, I applaud them for their effort. Just not for their effectiveness. Quoted:
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I'm not knocking the efforts of LOCAL. I'm commenting on the effectiveness of their efforts. I guess it depends on your definition of "effectiveness." I've personally seen a LOCAL pamphlet on the bulletin board at the NOPD 4th District with a notation urging all to read it. LOCAL was involved in getting the city of Amite to rescind an anti-OC ordinance. The LSP refers OC questioners to the LOCAL website. The LOCAL president has spoken to community groups at the request of some LEO along side presenters on CC and home security. Most importantly from LOCAL's perspective, some LEO have generally reacted positively to the contacts from LOCAL, once they understand that LOCAL is not trying to provoke incidents to be videoed and posted to the internet, but rather is trying to be a source of information for anyone interested in exercising their right to self protection. I work for NOPD. I've never seen anyone from LOCAL nor can I remember seeing any information from LOCAL. I believe you when you say there is a pamphlet in one of the stations. I've just never seen it there or at any other station. I've personally instructed several co-workers on the gun laws of the state, including the open carry laws. Those officers obviously had not received the information from LOCAL. So in my professional experience, their massive educational campaign was not lasting and did not make a big impact. In fact, I had to google LOCAL to even find out who they were. So they have also not made an impression in my personal life. My definition of effectiveness is the textbook definition, "the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired result." Based on the mission statement on their website, I would have to say they have not been very effective. Again, I applaud them for their effort. Just not for their effectiveness. Yeah, never gotten anything from LOCAL either, but I was aware of them. I think they are the reason that OC got discussed so much by Cager in in-service last year, or maybe it was 2014. |
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I am the President of the Florida Parishes Chapter of LOCAL. Back in 2010 and 11 we sent packets to every police and sheriff dept in the state. It was up to your dept to notify you about OC. We have had run ins with Orleans Parish Police, so we just avoid Orleans all together. If you want to learn about OC why don’t you attend one of our meetings? The Florida Parishes chapter of LOCAL is having their January meeting at the IHOP in Slidell next to Academy Sports. We meet at 6:30pm. Quoted:
I am the President of the Florida Parishes Chapter of LOCAL. Back in 2010 and 11 we sent packets to every police and sheriff dept in the state. It was up to your dept to notify you about OC. We have had run ins with Orleans Parish Police, so we just avoid Orleans all together. If you want to learn about OC why don’t you attend one of our meetings? The Florida Parishes chapter of LOCAL is having their January meeting at the IHOP in Slidell next to Academy Sports. We meet at 6:30pm. Parishes have sheriffs. Municipalities have police. I am a supporter of the 2nd amendment and an individual's right to self-protection. I am familiar with OC. Quoted:
We sent packets to all the precinct captains in New Orleans. All the packets wear sent registered mail. If they didn’t share the info we sent it is not our fault. Go jump on your captains not us. I didn't jump on LOCAL. In fact, once I looked up LOCAL, I stated I was not knocking the efforts of LOCAL. The post I commented on mentioned a massive educational campaign was undertaken by LOCAL. I laughed because I had seen no evidence of that massive educational campaign and I was in a position where I should have been a target of the campaign. But I would suggest that the places you've have run ins with LEOs would be the places that call for a massive educational campaign consisting of more than simply going to the post office. |