Posted: 8/14/2014 11:03:24 AM EDT
| Is a blind pin on a muzzle break to the barrel enough to satisfy the requierments in NJ for permanetly attatched? Or do I need to weld it as well. |
| Correct me if im wrong but the Stag is ok because it was a factory job, just like how WASR-10's have a single weld over the muzzle nut and is ok. But if you replace it and try to fix it yourself its gotta be 3 welds evenly spaced and for AR types and shit of you put your own on a bare muzzle, its gotta be a weld over a blind pin. |
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Correct me if im wrong but the Stag is ok because it was a factory job, just like how WASR-10's have a single weld over the muzzle nut and is ok. But if you replace it and try to fix it yourself its gotta be 3 welds evenly spaced and for AR types and shit of you put your own on a bare muzzle, its gotta be a weld over a blind pin. Why would a manufacturer be subject to different rules than a home builder? Especially when no rules actually exist on paper. We're pretty much all playing guessing games here. |
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Nobody knows what "permanently attached" means. Imagine yourself in court watching a zealous prosecutor explain that you intended the brake to be removable. Which setup would you feel better about? I don't know if welding it is necessary, but I'd feel a little more comfortable that way.
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Nobody knows what "permanently attached" means.... But ya Hon-nuh, pinning is within the spirit and intent of the law as per permanency. Afta all I ain't gonna be living in this shit-hole for-evuh. BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? Yes I know can't "re-grow" a bayo-lug. |
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BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? Sure. You can just drill out the pin (suggest using a carbide drill bit, if ya got one - otherwise, plan on ruining a drill bit), spin the brake off, clean up the threads with a die, and you're good to go. If one was looking to neuter a rifle for NJ, but eventually un-neuter it, silver solder is the better approach, as you can just re-heat the brake and spin it off. 1100° silver solder was another acceptable method of permanently attaching a muzzle brake by the ATF during the '94 AWB (which is what we base our concept of "pin and weld" on. The third acceptable method was four equal-distant tack welds). In fact, I found a letter from ATF FTB, dated from 1998, which says: A muzzle device, such as a muzzle brake or barrel extension, which
is attached to a barrel by means of welding or high temperature silver solder having a melting point of at least 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, is considered to be part of the barrel for purposes of measurement. A seam weld extending at least one-half the circumference of the barrel or four equidistant tack welds around the circumference of the barrel are adequate for this purpose. A firearm having a muzzle brake, cap, or barrel extension permanently attached by those same methods to cover the threads on a barrel, would not be considered to have a threaded muzzle. Please note, however, that any muzzle device or barrel extension which functions as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher would still constitute one of the qualifying features of a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30(B). Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable method for permanently attaching a muzzle device. I'm having difficulty finding anything from the ATF on blind-pinning. I'll continue to search... Yes I know can't "re-grow" a bayo-lug. You'd be amazed what you can do with a MIG welder and a Dremel tool 
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But ya Hon-nuh, pinning is within the spirit and intent of the law as per permanency. Afta all I ain't gonna be living in this shit-hole for-evuh. BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? Yes I know can't "re-grow" a bayo-lug. Quoted:
Quoted:
Nobody knows what "permanently attached" means.... But ya Hon-nuh, pinning is within the spirit and intent of the law as per permanency. Afta all I ain't gonna be living in this shit-hole for-evuh. BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? Yes I know can't "re-grow" a bayo-lug. Yeah you can if the pin you use is actually a screw and you mill off the head. Eventually if you wanted to file down the weld and back out the screw you can. But also ADCO can remove the break for you however the break will be destroyed. They literally crack/split it open. |
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Sure. You can just drill out the pin (suggest using a carbide drill bit, if ya got one - otherwise, plan on ruining a drill bit), spin the brake off, clean up the threads with a die, and you're good to go. If one was looking to neuter a rifle for NJ, but eventually un-neuter it, silver solder is the better approach, as you can just re-heat the brake and spin it off. 1100° silver solder was another acceptable method of permanently attaching a muzzle brake by the ATF during the '94 AWB (which is what we base our concept of "pin and weld" on. The third acceptable method was four equal-distant tack welds). In fact, I found a letter from ATF FTB, dated from 1998, which says: I'm having difficulty finding anything from the ATF on blind-pinning. I'll continue to search... You'd be amazed what you can do with a MIG welder and a Dremel tool Quoted:
BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? Sure. You can just drill out the pin (suggest using a carbide drill bit, if ya got one - otherwise, plan on ruining a drill bit), spin the brake off, clean up the threads with a die, and you're good to go. If one was looking to neuter a rifle for NJ, but eventually un-neuter it, silver solder is the better approach, as you can just re-heat the brake and spin it off. 1100° silver solder was another acceptable method of permanently attaching a muzzle brake by the ATF during the '94 AWB (which is what we base our concept of "pin and weld" on. The third acceptable method was four equal-distant tack welds). In fact, I found a letter from ATF FTB, dated from 1998, which says: A muzzle device, such as a muzzle brake or barrel extension, which
is attached to a barrel by means of welding or high temperature silver solder having a melting point of at least 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, is considered to be part of the barrel for purposes of measurement. A seam weld extending at least one-half the circumference of the barrel or four equidistant tack welds around the circumference of the barrel are adequate for this purpose. A firearm having a muzzle brake, cap, or barrel extension permanently attached by those same methods to cover the threads on a barrel, would not be considered to have a threaded muzzle. Please note, however, that any muzzle device or barrel extension which functions as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher would still constitute one of the qualifying features of a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30(B). Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable method for permanently attaching a muzzle device. I'm having difficulty finding anything from the ATF on blind-pinning. I'll continue to search... Yes I know can't "re-grow" a bayo-lug. You'd be amazed what you can do with a MIG welder and a Dremel tool I am not so gifted, so as has been said, "my wallet is my favorite tool." |
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I am not so gifted, so as has been said, "my wallet is my favorite tool." Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW- can pinning be undone by a Gunsmith to install a FH if one is lucky enough love out of our beloved NJ? Sure. You can just drill out the pin (suggest using a carbide drill bit, if ya got one - otherwise, plan on ruining a drill bit), spin the brake off, clean up the threads with a die, and you're good to go. If one was looking to neuter a rifle for NJ, but eventually un-neuter it, silver solder is the better approach, as you can just re-heat the brake and spin it off. 1100° silver solder was another acceptable method of permanently attaching a muzzle brake by the ATF during the '94 AWB (which is what we base our concept of "pin and weld" on. The third acceptable method was four equal-distant tack welds). In fact, I found a letter from ATF FTB, dated from 1998, which says: A muzzle device, such as a muzzle brake or barrel extension, which
is attached to a barrel by means of welding or high temperature silver solder having a melting point of at least 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, is considered to be part of the barrel for purposes of measurement. A seam weld extending at least one-half the circumference of the barrel or four equidistant tack welds around the circumference of the barrel are adequate for this purpose. A firearm having a muzzle brake, cap, or barrel extension permanently attached by those same methods to cover the threads on a barrel, would not be considered to have a threaded muzzle. Please note, however, that any muzzle device or barrel extension which functions as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher would still constitute one of the qualifying features of a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30(B). Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable method for permanently attaching a muzzle device. I'm having difficulty finding anything from the ATF on blind-pinning. I'll continue to search... Yes I know can't "re-grow" a bayo-lug. You'd be amazed what you can do with a MIG welder and a Dremel tool I am not so gifted, so as has been said, "my wallet is my favorite tool." AMEN to that!!!
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So whats the consensus here? Ive been in contact with local smiths in my area, but they all just blind pin because "they dont like the heat of welding". That might not work and IDK what to do...  Most of us pinned and welded. Can't be too cautious in this friggin State!! |
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I am in between these two, what are your opinions on each? I have heard that the BCM is a no go because of the open port and the fact that in their marketing they reference its flash suppressing ability... What say you. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550170/dpms-muzzle-brake-branson-1-2-28-thread-ar-15-steel-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-1-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-1-556.htm |
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Quoted: I am in between these two, what are your opinions on each? I have heard that the BCM is a no go because of the open port and the fact that in their marketing they reference its flash suppressing ability... What say you. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550170/dpms-muzzle-brake-branson-1-2-28-thread-ar-15-steel-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-1-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-1-556.htm |
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Nobody knows what "permanently attached" means. Imagine yourself in court watching a zealous prosecutor explain that you intended the brake to be removable. Which setup would you feel better about? I don't know if welding it is necessary, but I'd feel a little more comfortable that way. The state has NEVER Actually defined what the term means......we've been operating off of what the BATF considered "Permanent" during the federal ban for Stocks and Muzzle Devices...magazines is where it REALLY gets sticky..at one time a Pop Rivet with a wooden block that physically limited the mag to 15 was fine....but once again the state has never DEFINED what the standard for "Not Readily Converted back to High (Actually Standard) Capacity actually Entails. |