Posted: 12/11/2012 9:44:39 AM EDT
| http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story |
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The state of Illinois would have to allow ordinary citizens to carry weapons under a federal appeals court ruling issued today, but the judges also gave lawmakers 180 days to put their own version of the law in place.
In a 2-1 decision that is a major victory for the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state's ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional. "We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside," the judges ruled. "The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden. "The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment compelled the appeals court to rule the ban unconstitutional, the judges said. But the court gave 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public." Illinois is the only state in the nation not to have some form of conceal carry after Wisconsin recently approved law. "The (Illinois) legislature, in the new session, will be forced to take up a statewide carry law," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde. The lobbyist said prior attempts to reach a middle ground with opponents will no longer be necessary because "those compromises are going out the window." House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, a longtime gun control advocate, said she hoped the state would appeal the ruling. But Currie also said lawmakers must “get cracking” on how to respond to the ruling and begin parsing its key points. Currie, D-Chicago, said that “justices surely do not mean that we would have to have wide-open” laws in Illinois. She said Illinois must now look at what other states are doing, such as disallowing guns in day-care centers and other locations. “If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.” Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan's office is reading the just-issued opinion and is unable at this point to comment about the prospects of filing an appeal, a spokeswoman said. A spokeswoman for Gov. Pat Quinn said the administration is reviewing the decision. The governor has previously said he was firmly opposed to any law allowing citizens to carry loaded guns in public. He threatened to veto previous attempts by lawmakers to pass legislation allowing concealed carry in Illinois. Reaction to the decision is rolling in from City Hall to the Capitol. Ald. Howard Brookins, 21st, chairman of the City Council black caucus, welcomed the decision, saying allowing Chicagoans to carry concealed weapons would help level the playing field in neighborhoods where law-abiding citizens feel like they need firearms to protect themselves. "Certain people will have a sense of safety and peace of mind in the ability to do it," Brookins said of conceal-carry. "I know that even people, for example, just trying to see that their loved ones get homes safely are in technical violation of all sorts of weapons violations. If you just walk out to your garage and see that your wife is coming in the house safely, and you happen to have your gun on you, you're in technical violation of our ordinance. So I would hope all these ordinances would be consolidated so there's one set of rules and people would know where the bright line is to what they can and cannot do with respect to carrying a weapon." Brookins said he's not worried doing away with the state ban would lead to an increase in gun violence as more people walk the streets with weapons. "I think those people have a gun now, they've just been made criminals because they can't legally have it," Brookins said. "And I think the gangbangers and thugs are going to have a gun regardless." |
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I think SCOTUS will rule on this before a NJ case makes it that far. Just hope it is before the conservatives retire. With Conservatives like Roberts who needs to be concerned for the future? Can't argue about Roberts but our chances will only get worse from here. |
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You guys are misunderstanding the ruling I believe. The state of Illinois had absolutely no concealed carry. There was no process, no permitting, no option and no possibility regardless of how thin that potability would be. The US Appeals Court, as I understand the summary, ruled that unconstitutional but gave them time to enact laws governing how they allow citizens to carry and what regulations they apply to the right.
While this is absolutely a step in the right direction, it isn't really applicable to NJ. NJ has concealed carry, it's just restricted. There is a process, there is a permit to obtain and once that permit is obtained it is legal to carry a firearm concealed. Illinois didn't have that and that's what the Appeals Court ruled was unconstitutional at this juncture of the case. My bet is that the IL government will enact similar concealed carry laws as our state and that's when the Federal Courts will have the ability to truly affect change to the restrictive nature of concealed carry laws. My honest opinion is that every NJ gun owner with interest in carrying concealed should go through the process of applying for a concealed carry permit. The stigma is that it will be denied, but how many have actually tried and been denied? I don't mean your friend's, sister's, room mate's aunt tried and got denied; I mean you. Because of the constant and prevalent belief that it'll never get granted, no one even bothers. If half of the gun owners in this state applied, it would be a massive increase in the amount filed and would certainly raise some eyebrows on both sides of the argument. Would that be enough to get Federal attention? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If the numbers increased dramatically, my bet is that the powers in control of the process would at the very least begin to seriously reconsider the approach simply out suspicion of looming civil liability. Right now those people have open schedules and a lot of time to forget all about concealed carry laws because nobody ever applies. |
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You guys are misunderstanding the ruling I believe. The state of Illinois had absolutely no concealed carry. There was no process, no permitting, no option and no possibility regardless of how thin that potability would be. The US Appeals Court, as I understand the summary, ruled that unconstitutional but gave them time to enact laws governing how they allow citizens to carry and what regulations they apply to the right. While this is absolutely a step in the right direction, it isn't really applicable to NJ. NJ has concealed carry, it's just restricted. There is a process, there is a permit to obtain and once that permit is obtained it is legal to carry a firearm concealed. Illinois didn't have that and that's what the Appeals Court ruled was unconstitutional at this juncture of the case. My bet is that the IL government will enact similar concealed carry laws as our state and that's when the Federal Courts will have the ability to truly affect change to the restrictive nature of concealed carry laws. My honest opinion is that every NJ gun owner with interest in carrying concealed should go through the process of applying for a concealed carry permit. The stigma is that it will be denied, but how many have actually tried and been denied? I don't mean your friend's, sister's, room mate's aunt tried and got denied; I mean you. Because of the constant and prevalent belief that it'll never get granted, no one even bothers. If half of the gun owners in this state applied, it would be a massive increase in the amount filed and would certainly raise some eyebrows on both sides of the argument. Would that be enough to get Federal attention? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If the numbers increased dramatically, my bet is that the powers in control of the process would at the very least begin to seriously reconsider the approach simply out suspicion of looming civil liability. Right now those people have open schedules and a lot of time to forget all about concealed carry laws because nobody ever applies. The concern is the question on the P2P Application (27) Have you ever had a firearms purchaser identification card, permit to purchase a handgun, permit to carry a handgun or any other firearms license or
Will be used as a reason to deny future permits. Frankly, seeing some of the crap that a few Municipalities pull when it comes to firearms permits, I cant say it's an unfounded fear.... Also, I believe on Fl, and several other states that allow Non-Resident CCW permits, there is a similar question on their apps as well
application refused or revoked in New Jersey or any other state? If yes, explain. |
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You guys are misunderstanding the ruling I believe. The state of Illinois had absolutely no concealed carry. There was no process, no permitting, no option and no possibility regardless of how thin that potability would be. The US Appeals Court, as I understand the summary, ruled that unconstitutional but gave them time to enact laws governing how they allow citizens to carry and what regulations they apply to the right. While this is absolutely a step in the right direction, it isn't really applicable to NJ. NJ has concealed carry, it's just restricted. There is a process, there is a permit to obtain and once that permit is obtained it is legal to carry a firearm concealed. Illinois didn't have that and that's what the Appeals Court ruled was unconstitutional at this juncture of the case. My bet is that the IL government will enact similar concealed carry laws as our state and that's when the Federal Courts will have the ability to truly affect change to the restrictive nature of concealed carry laws. My honest opinion is that every NJ gun owner with interest in carrying concealed should go through the process of applying for a concealed carry permit. The stigma is that it will be denied, but how many have actually tried and been denied? I don't mean your friend's, sister's, room mate's aunt tried and got denied; I mean you. Because of the constant and prevalent belief that it'll never get granted, no one even bothers. If half of the gun owners in this state applied, it would be a massive increase in the amount filed and would certainly raise some eyebrows on both sides of the argument. Would that be enough to get Federal attention? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If the numbers increased dramatically, my bet is that the powers in control of the process would at the very least begin to seriously reconsider the approach simply out suspicion of looming civil liability. Right now those people have open schedules and a lot of time to forget all about concealed carry laws because nobody ever applies. The concern is the question on the P2P Application (27) Have you ever had a firearms purchaser identification card, permit to purchase a handgun, permit to carry a handgun or any other firearms license or
Will be used as a reason to deny future permits. Frankly, seeing some of the crap that a few Municipalities pull when it comes to firearms permits, I cant say it's an unfounded fear.... Also, I believe on Fl, and several other states that allow Non-Resident CCW permits, there is a similar question on their apps as wellapplication refused or revoked in New Jersey or any other state? If yes, explain. Being denied a permit to carry IS NOT a reason to deny a pistol purchase permit when there is no grounds for the carry permit denial in the first place and if nobody is willing to fight to test that, we will never change a dam thing in this state. |
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Being denied a permit to carry IS NOT a reason to deny a pistol purchase permit when there is no grounds for the carry permit denial in the first place and if nobody is willing to fight to test that, we will never change a dam thing in this state. What have we changed so far in NJ to better our 2A Rights here since the 60's? 
I can't think of anything because the Liberal Left media hates guns and we don't have any Politicians who will stand up for our 2A Rights because they know if they do it's political suicide for them. Nothing positive is ever going to happen in NJ sad to say. |
| The Atlantic City Press printed an article years ago. It said that the LE turn in weapons were getting into criminal hands. Because of this a law was passed that turn in weapons had to be destroyed. A friend confronted the reporter. he asked the source of the information. The reporter laughed and said.'I made it up' |
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Being denied a permit to carry IS NOT a reason to deny a pistol purchase permit when there is no grounds for the carry permit denial in the first place and if nobody is willing to fight to test that, we will never change a dam thing in this state. What have we changed so far in NJ to better our 2A Rights here since the 60's?
I can't think of anything because the Liberal Left media hates guns and we don't have any Politicians who will stand up for our 2A Rights because they know if they do it's political suicide for them. Nothing positive is ever going to happen in NJ sad to say. There's that great positive approach again. It's a lost cause so lets just give up right? I'm sure that the Kingdom of Great Britain and its army was no big deal to John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, but this NJ gun law thing is way too big to fight... 
I stated in another post and I'll summarize it again here; there has never been a better time for us to gain ground in restoring our rights. The numbers of gun owners in this state and country are rising at historic numbers and these new gun owners are from all walks of life and political backgrounds. They're voters that can be swayed and they carry a fresh, new mind toward the state of our constitutional rights. They haven't been conditioned to believe that it'll never get better like you have, shit if they aren't getting there though. Wonder where they're getting it from? In NJ these new gun owners carry the same negative approach to the restriction of our rights as the one's that have been gun owners for 30+ years. Why do you think that is? Who do you think teaches them that BS? We are our own worst enemies in this fight because we spend ten times more energy bitching and moaning and spewing our negative venom, than we do trying to fight for restoration of the rights we're bitching about. Don't apply for a concealed carry permit, because the media is liberal and our rights will never get better... Instead, just get on a gun enthusiast web site where most new gun owners will stumble when they start to research guns and the 2A, and spit negativity all over it about how there's no cause to fight. 
If just 1 in 10 gun owners in NJ just attempted to apply for a concealed carry permit, I bet it would be enough to raise some serious eye brows around the state. Will it change the process, maybe or maybe not, but is it worth filling out a few forms to see how it goes? I say it absolutely is. When they deny 2 or 3 year, nobody hears about it and nobody cares but when they deny 4 or 5 THOUSAND things start to get some attention. Maybe that leads to some court cases, maybe those court cases lead to some change. Maybe they don't and maybe the effort stumbles, but in the end was the process not worth the possible reward? If you don't think so, then stop bitching about it and live with it like you have been since the 60's. I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Luger, just making a blanket statement that sums up what I've seen in this environment of gun owners and enthusiasts that "care" about our freedom. |
| I *think* nobody applies because it's believed to be held against you later when you now have to check "yes" to one of the questions you're supposed to be breezing through checking "no" at whatever the final expense is, I believe you'll have a red flag on your applications from then on out.. |
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It is all very frustrating, near extinction levels (physiological extinction) - however it we don't "push the fuck" back, we will surely lose everything. The left has been using the courts forever to de-ball men, give women a pair of balls they neither need (as they could always speak for themselves) nor would they be attractive assets to "land" a man. These court judgements are victories and should be exploited to their complete end.
Remember: PTFB!!! |
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Sooooo, has anybody here actually applied for a NJ permit, been denied, and then attempted to apply for an out of state permit?
I'm all for going down to the PD and picking up an application tomorrow, but there aren't really any definitive answers here. So if I went to the Police station picked up my paperwork for ccw I'd be turned down correct? What would the reason be? |
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Being denied a permit to carry IS NOT a reason to deny a pistol purchase permit when there is no grounds for the carry permit denial in the first place and if nobody is willing to fight to test that, we will never change a dam thing in this state. What have we changed so far in NJ to better our 2A Rights here since the 60's?
I can't think of anything because the Liberal Left media hates guns and we don't have any Politicians who will stand up for our 2A Rights because they know if they do it's political suicide for them. Nothing positive is ever going to happen in NJ sad to say. There's that great positive approach again. It's a lost cause so lets just give up right? I'm sure that the Kingdom of Great Britain and its army was no big deal to John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, but this NJ gun law thing is way too big to fight...
I stated in another post and I'll summarize it again here; there has never been a better time for us to gain ground in restoring our rights. The numbers of gun owners in this state and country are rising at historic numbers and these new gun owners are from all walks of life and political backgrounds. They're voters that can be swayed and they carry a fresh, new mind toward the state of our constitutional rights. They haven't been conditioned to believe that it'll never get better like you have, shit if they aren't getting there though. Wonder where they're getting it from? In NJ these new gun owners carry the same negative approach to the restriction of our rights as the one's that have been gun owners for 30+ years. Why do you think that is? Who do you think teaches them that BS? We are our own worst enemies in this fight because we spend ten times more energy bitching and moaning and spewing our negative venom, than we do trying to fight for restoration of the rights we're bitching about. Don't apply for a concealed carry permit, because the media is liberal and our rights will never get better... Instead, just get on a gun enthusiast web site where most new gun owners will stumble when they start to research guns and the 2A, and spit negativity all over it about how there's no cause to fight.
If just 1 in 10 gun owners in NJ just attempted to apply for a concealed carry permit, I bet it would be enough to raise some serious eye brows around the state. Will it change the process, maybe or maybe not, but is it worth filling out a few forms to see how it goes? I say it absolutely is. When they deny 2 or 3 year, nobody hears about it and nobody cares but when they deny 4 or 5 THOUSAND things start to get some attention. Maybe that leads to some court cases, maybe those court cases lead to some change. Maybe they don't and maybe the effort stumbles, but in the end was the process not worth the possible reward? If you don't think so, then stop bitching about it and live with it like you have been since the 60's. I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Luger, just making a blanket statement that sums up what I've seen in this environment of gun owners and enthusiasts that "care" about our freedom. So where and when did I post I gave up? I've been doing everything in my power since becoming a gun owner in 1973. I've done my share and still do everything in my power to reverse the downward spiral I've seen here since the 1966 Pistol Permit Act. I stood shoulder to shoulder with my 2A Brothers in 1990 at the biggest pro gun rally this State has even seen. I've written countless letters to the editor to many newspapers in the last 35+ years. I've written and phoned our political leaders in that same time frame. I've called radio stations and voiced my pro gun opinion. I'm still doing it every chance I get to turn the tide. I was a active member of The Coalition of NJ Sportsman and the NJCSD. I've been an NRA member since 1984 and have made countless donations to these organizations over the years. I'll never stop fighting for my 2A rights but I have to be perfectly honest with you. It gets you down when all your good intentions are for what it seems nothing. Am I a cynic when it comes to NJ and firearms? Hell yeah. Why because I've only seen it get worse year after year after year with nothing positive in return. I've paid my dues. I've earned the right to be cynical. Exactly what should I be "positive" about? The one gun a month law? The 1990 AWB? The smart Gun Law? How about how the NJSP dictate to the AG's office what's legal and what's not? Shall I go on or do you get the point? Truth hurts huh? So tell us all,what have you done to preserve our 2A Rights? All I see is talk, talk, and more talk on these boards on how it can only get better. These more of us now talk.
Politicians are not going to help us because it's political suicide and they damn well know it.The Liberal Left newspapers are never going to change their opinion about firearms. They have been poisoning the minds of New Jerseyites for as long as I can remember. Sorry but I just don't see it happening. I'm not picking on you either but it is what it is. After being on the forefront for all these years and seeing NOTHING positive change here I'm super cynical of anything ever changing for the positive. Hell I'll bet three quarters of the people on this board don't even vote. So if you don't mind please tell us your plan of attack to reverse the trend of the Left's plan to disarm us all? You do know that is their goal right? I'm here fighting to the end. 
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Sooooo, has anybody here actually applied for a NJ permit, been denied, and then attempted to apply for an out of state permit?
I'm all for going down to the PD and picking up an application tomorrow, but there aren't really any definitive answers here. So if I went to the Police station picked up my paperwork for ccw I'd be turned down correct? What would the reason be? "Lack of justifiable need" Nevermind that justifiable need has never been defined, or suggested towards a definition, so it can become whatever the local chief, or NJSP, or prosecutor, or superior court judge needs it to mean at that specific moment in time. |
| I never claimed to have the "master plan" and I also never asked for your resume. Like I said, I wasn't directing my entire post towards you, I was making a general statement about how there is a constant negative undertone drummed into the NJ gun community. What I do know is that what we've been doing isn't working so maybe turning the tables a little bit might be a descent start to a new approach. Putting some fuel in the tanks of the masses might be a nice start and there's certainly nothing combustible about constant hopeless and negative reinforcement. We have more numbers now than we had yesterday and the day before that, but if all we do is constantly convince them that the state is a lost cause they might as well be on the other side of the line. |
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Sooooo, has anybody here actually applied for a NJ permit, been denied, and then attempted to apply for an out of state permit?
I'm all for going down to the PD and picking up an application tomorrow, but there aren't really any definitive answers here. So if I went to the Police station picked up my paperwork for ccw I'd be turned down correct? What would the reason be? "Lack of justifiable need" Nevermind that justifiable need has never been defined, or suggested towards a definition, so it can become whatever the local chief, or NJSP, or prosecutor, or superior court judge needs it to mean at that specific moment in time. No Judge, Police Chief, etc., wants to set a precedence and say YES, become a Pariah and have no career after the fact .... Much easier for them to say no.... the ball-less POS. |
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Yes, but the topic gets a whole hell of a lot more attention when a couple thousand people apply and those same judges have to tell all couple thousand people that same excuse. Like I said, when a judge has to deny 1 or 2 a year it's no big deal but there's a shit ton of influence in numbers.
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Yes, but the topic gets a whole hell of a lot more attention when a couple thousand people apply and those same judges have to tell all couple thousand people that same excuse. Like I said, when a judge has to deny 1 or 2 a year it's no big deal but there's a shit ton of influence in numbers. There is much merit here. No one wants to be the genea pig(s). |
| For it to even have a chance, you'd need a large number of citizens going to apply all around the same time (obviously not time of day, just within the same month so that they're all reviewed at the same time). I can pretty much guarantee you that it will not affect your ability to get a pistol permit, unless of course the process uncovers some legitimate reason why you shouldn't be granted one. The typical "No Justifiable Need" denial is NOT a reason to deny a pistol permit and issuing authorities MUST have a legitimate reason to deny a PP. Large numbers also make for more interest from civil liberties unions, National 2A support groups and specialty attorneys. If you get a couple thousand people to apply, get denied then sign onto a suit; you have a MUCH better chance of getting the topic heard on a Federal level or at least getting some very beneficial and swaying attention to the topic. Like I've been saying, the window is closing with the looming possibility of SCOTUS changes and there has never been a better time to try this approach than now. We have more gun owners in this state than we ever had before and the count increases by the day. |
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Yes, but the topic gets a whole hell of a lot more attention when a couple thousand people apply and those same judges have to tell all couple thousand people that same excuse. Like I said, when a judge has to deny 1 or 2 a year it's no big deal but there's a shit ton of influence in numbers. There is much merit here. No one wants to be the genea pig(s). Exactly. Years ago I had a friend who moved. He applied for his change of residence for his FIDC. No big deal right? Well he ended up racking up a bunch of traffic tickets over a period of about three years. Parking and speeding to be exact. No DWI or anything close. No other criminal offenses either. After waiting 6 months for his new card he finally received a letter from the Chief stating he was denied. Reason given. As per N.J.S. 2C:58-3c denial is based on Public Health, Safety and Welfare. The above statute means they have "carte blanche" to fuck you over any time they want. He could have appealed the POS Chief's decision but it would have cost him thousands which he didn't have. He finally wised up and moved to PA. Never trust the Police or the Politicians of NJ. They are only here to fuck you over. |
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Never trust the Police or the Politicians of NJ. They are only here to fuck you over. And there it is. I really had respect for you as a member of this "community", as much as one could have for someone on the internet anyway, but what can I say? Your true colors shine when someone simply disagrees with you... Yet another story about "a friend" that got screwed over and all you have is what you were told. With that, you make a statement like the one above. Amazing how hypocritical some people can be. Jump to a conclusion, blanket an entire group of people into a pigeon hole and alienate anyone that might be willing to help you, then wonder why the majority of our socioty sees gun owners and enthusiests as whaco extremists. It's not just the "liberal media" sir, it's people like you too.
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Never trust the Police or the Politicians of NJ. They are only here to fuck you over. And there it is. I really had respect for you as a member of this "community", as much as one could have for someone on the internet anyway, but what can I say? Your true colors shine when someone simply disagrees with you... Yet another story about "a friend" that got screwed over and all you have is what you were told. With that, you make a statement like the one above. Amazing how hypocritical some people can be. Jump to a conclusion, blanket an entire group of people into a pigeon hole and alienate anyone that might be willing to help you, then wonder why the majority of our socioty sees gun owners and enthusiests as whaco extremists. It's not just the "liberal media" sir, it's people like you too.Respect is EARNED Son and you don't have mine yet. Sorry but it's not a "story" it happens to be a FACT!! The person I mentioned just happens to be a long time Friend. Your response is exactly what I expected from an elitist superior thinking Cop with an attitude. Go ahead John Q. Public and try to buck the system where you can't win! Take the no win chance and lose all you gun rights but I can still carry because I'm a Cop and you can't and I don't give a crap about you!! You don't know me but I know you!!
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Never trust the Police or the Politicians of NJ. They are only here to fuck you over. And there it is. I really had respect for you as a member of this "community", as much as one could have for someone on the internet anyway, but what can I say? Your true colors shine when someone simply disagrees with you... Yet another story about "a friend" that got screwed over and all you have is what you were told. With that, you make a statement like the one above. Amazing how hypocritical some people can be. Jump to a conclusion, blanket an entire group of people into a pigeon hole and alienate anyone that might be willing to help you, then wonder why the majority of our socioty sees gun owners and enthusiests as whaco extremists. It's not just the "liberal media" sir, it's people like you too.Respect is EARNED Son and you don't have mine yet. Sorry but it's not a "story" it happens to be a FACT!! The person I mentioned just happens to be a long time Friend. Your response is exactly what I expected from an elitist superior thinking Cop with an attitude. Go ahead John Q. Public and try to buck the system where you can't win! Take the no win chance and lose all you gun rights but I can still carry because I'm a Cop and you can't and I don't give a crap about you!! You don't know me but I know you!! I'm not your "son" and I'm done with this conversation. Good luck to you... |
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Never trust the Police or the Politicians of NJ. They are only here to fuck you over. And there it is. I really had respect for you as a member of this "community", as much as one could have for someone on the internet anyway, but what can I say? Your true colors shine when someone simply disagrees with you... Yet another story about "a friend" that got screwed over and all you have is what you were told. With that, you make a statement like the one above. Amazing how hypocritical some people can be. Jump to a conclusion, blanket an entire group of people into a pigeon hole and alienate anyone that might be willing to help you, then wonder why the majority of our socioty sees gun owners and enthusiests as whaco extremists. It's not just the "liberal media" sir, it's people like you too.Respect is EARNED Son and you don't have mine yet. Sorry but it's not a "story" it happens to be a FACT!! The person I mentioned just happens to be a long time Friend. Your response is exactly what I expected from an elitist superior thinking Cop with an attitude. Go ahead John Q. Public and try to buck the system where you can't win! Take the no win chance and lose all you gun rights but I can still carry because I'm a Cop and you can't and I don't give a crap about you!! You don't know me but I know you!! I'm not your "son" and I'm done with this conversation. Good luck to you... And to you Sir! |
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For it to even have a chance, you'd need a large number of citizens going to apply all around the same time (obviously not time of day, just within the same month so that they're all reviewed at the same time). I can pretty much guarantee you that it will not affect your ability to get a pistol permit, unless of course the process uncovers some legitimate reason why you shouldn't be granted one. The typical "No Justifiable Need" denial is NOT a reason to deny a pistol permit and issuing authorities MUST have a legitimate reason to deny a PP. Large numbers also make for more interest from civil liberties unions, National 2A support groups and specialty attorneys. If you get a couple thousand people to apply, get denied then sign onto a suit; you have a MUCH better chance of getting the topic heard on a Federal level or at least getting some very beneficial and swaying attention to the topic. Like I've been saying, the window is closing with the looming possibility of SCOTUS changes and there has never been a better time to try this approach than now. We have more gun owners in this state than we ever had before and the count increases by the day. If you analyze this statement and just change around a few key words you would produce the now "left" tactics of "...Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward (1926–2001) and Frances Fox Piven (b. 1932) that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".'" |
Damn I am really unhappy with our 2 members arguing who have a very similar goal and concern in mind. 
It is truly this hyper-sensitivity of how to skin a cat. Lugerman, I understand your example completely, Ptrl, what you say does in fact have great merit. You would truly need thousands to apply within a short period of time.... sad part is most are worried of losing the small list of exceptions we have. |
| I really thought we were having a productive and respectable debate, of course until I was painted with a real broad brush then called names for simply responding to that ridiculous remark. I was just as disappointed to read that statement as you were to see us involved in the juvenile banter. I'd rather not partake in the grade school name calling though, it serves no purpose. |
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Sooooo, has anybody here actually applied for a NJ permit, been denied, and then attempted to apply for an out of state permit?
I'm all for going down to the PD and picking up an application tomorrow, but there aren't really any definitive answers here. So if I went to the Police station picked up my paperwork for ccw I'd be turned down correct? What would the reason be? it's not the police that are the problem here..it's the JUDGES that determine if your "Need" is "Justifiable" |
| We have lost sight of the enemy.....and we will lose, why do vivilians argue and vilify the LEOs here? Policy is set by the Chief and politions, they are all ass kissers to someone higher up on the food chain. And in NJ they march to the beat of a liberal drum |
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Yes, but the topic gets a whole hell of a lot more attention when a couple thousand people apply and those same judges have to tell all couple thousand people that same excuse. Like I said, when a judge has to deny 1 or 2 a year it's no big deal but there's a shit ton of influence in numbers. They told a MULTIPLE KIDNAP Victim, who had been threatened again that he had no "Justifiable Need' the ONLY reason the changed and actually issued that guy a permit was because he was included in the SAF/ANJRPC Lawsuit, and they then issued him his permit. They have denied permits to people who transport large sums of Cash, Jewels and other valuables with the old "If it's that valuable Hire a Bonded Courier" nonsense. |
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We have lost sight of the enemy.....and we will lose, why do vivilians argue and vilify the LEOs here? Policy is set by the Chief and politions, they are all ass kissers to someone higher up on the food chain. And in NJ they march to the beat of a liberal drum This is a microcosm of the bigger problem... WE are not the ENEMY. It truly is a time of focus, squabbling IS what THEY want. That IS how the Democrats succeed! They cooperate inspite of their, the rainbow of groups' very NARROW demands. |
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Sooooo, has anybody here actually applied for a NJ permit, been denied, and then attempted to apply for an out of state permit?
I'm all for going down to the PD and picking up an application tomorrow, but there aren't really any definitive answers here. So if I went to the Police station picked up my paperwork for ccw I'd be turned down correct? What would the reason be? it's not the police that are the problem here..it's the JUDGES that determine if your "Need" is "Justifiable" You are right here. However, before it even get to a judges desk, your chief has to sign off on it, and most won't. |
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This is a microcosm of the bigger problem... WE are not the ENEMY. It truly is a time of focus, squabbling IS what THEY want. That IS how the Democrats succeed! They cooperate inspite of their, the rainbow of groups' very NARROW demands.
No we are so busy arguing with each other over stupid stuff to keep focus on the liberals |