Posted: 4/20/2010 8:09:59 PM EDT
|
For you guys that frequent the range please check out the "club alert" section re: ricochet alert: http://www.cjrpc.org/popups/alerts.cfm There's a tower beyond the 200 and 300 yrd ranges:  |
| So you mean to tell me that a ricochet from the 100yrd birm will travel that far and at that angle? More like the 300 yard range and someone shooting over the birm, That tower is 990 yards away from the 300 range, and 1040yards from the far end of the AP range,SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? We will not be able to shoot at water jugs or the like anymore? AGAIN WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? |
|
Quoted:
So you mean to tell me that a ricochet from the 100yrd birm will travel that far and at that angle? More like the 300 yard range and someone shooting over the birm, That tower is 990 yards away from the 300 range, and 1040yards from the far end of the AP range,SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? We will not be able to shoot at water jugs or the like anymore? AGAIN WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? A .223 can travel like 2k yards man. Put the water jugs on a pedestal or something. I think if the middle 50yd and 100yd berms are eliminated to a smooth grade, it will help with the ricochets. No other ranges have those. |
|
Wow, I really need to start checking the Hometown tab more often. I didn't realize there were so many threads on CJRPC. That whole riccochet thing seems a little fishy to me too. Seems like an awful long distance for a riccochet to go. I would more likely believe errant rounds being fired over the berm. However I can be okay with taller targets. I usually use pretty tall 1x2s to hold up my targets.
Any word on when the pits will be back in action? That is what I really miss. The newsletter said most members wanted the pits to be redone with concrete walls. I would have thought most folks would have just wanted them put back the way they were. I don't care either way, I just want to be able to use them ASAP. I love when they raise dues for improvements that actually limit my range access. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you mean to tell me that a ricochet from the 100yrd birm will travel that far and at that angle? More like the 300 yard range and someone shooting over the birm, That tower is 990 yards away from the 300 range, and 1040yards from the far end of the AP range,SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? We will not be able to shoot at water jugs or the like anymore? AGAIN WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? A .223 can travel like 2k yards man. Put the water jugs on a pedestal or something. I think if the middle 50yd and 100yd berms are eliminated to a smooth grade, it will help with the ricochets. No other ranges have those. I agree, a .223 can travel long distances, but after most of it energy is spent after hitting the birm I do not think you will be able to get those distances, not in a long shot (no pun intended), I also do agree to put the jugs on a stand. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you mean to tell me that a ricochet from the 100yrd birm will travel that far and at that angle? More like the 300 yard range and someone shooting over the birm, That tower is 990 yards away from the 300 range, and 1040yards from the far end of the AP range,SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? We will not be able to shoot at water jugs or the like anymore? AGAIN WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? A .223 can travel like 2k yards man. Put the water jugs on a pedestal or something. I think if the middle 50yd and 100yd berms are eliminated to a smooth grade, it will help with the ricochets. No other ranges have those. Those berms used to be 4ft high when I joined 23 years ago. I've slowly watched them sink over the years as nothing was ever done to rebuild them. It was never a problem with ricochet's for all those years and now it's a problem? Gee I wonder why???? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you mean to tell me that a ricochet from the 100yrd birm will travel that far and at that angle? More like the 300 yard range and someone shooting over the birm, That tower is 990 yards away from the 300 range, and 1040yards from the far end of the AP range,SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? We will not be able to shoot at water jugs or the like anymore? AGAIN WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? A .223 can travel like 2k yards man. Put the water jugs on a pedestal or something. I think if the middle 50yd and 100yd berms are eliminated to a smooth grade, it will help with the ricochets. No other ranges have those. I agree, a .223 can travel long distances, but after most of it energy is spent after hitting the birm I do not think you will be able to get those distances, not in a long shot (no pun intended), I also do agree to put the jugs on a stand. I don't have time to plug in the numbers because I am at work but this should be helpful: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1141977 |
|
I couldn't solve that equation if you gave me two calculators, a foreign exchange student and the answer. However it is very interesting nonetheless. I really didn't believe a riccochet could go that distance. An errant round however, we all need to be careful for those.
Lugerman, that is so interesting. I had no idea those berms were once four foot high. I wish they would fix that. Good info. I do love that club. |
|
Quoted:
I couldn't solve that equation if you gave me two calculators, a foreign exchange student and the answer. However it is very interesting nonetheless. I really didn't believe a riccochet could go that distance. An errant round however, we all need to be careful for those. Lugerman, that is so interesting. I had no idea those berms were once four foot high. I wish they would fix that. Good info. I do love that club. Me either haha. The berms still have to be like 3 feet high. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I couldn't solve that equation if you gave me two calculators, a foreign exchange student and the answer. However it is very interesting nonetheless. I really didn't believe a riccochet could go that distance. An errant round however, we all need to be careful for those. Lugerman, that is so interesting. I had no idea those berms were once four foot high. I wish they would fix that. Good info. I do love that club. Me either haha. The berms still have to be like 3 feet high. Not as of last Sunday. They all have been graded to almost level now. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I couldn't solve that equation if you gave me two calculators, a foreign exchange student and the answer. However it is very interesting nonetheless. I really didn't believe a riccochet could go that distance. An errant round however, we all need to be careful for those. Lugerman, that is so interesting. I had no idea those berms were once four foot high. I wish they would fix that. Good info. I do love that club. Me either haha. The berms still have to be like 3 feet high. Not as of last Sunday. They all have been graded to almost level now. i agree, i see larger speedbumps on the road these days. i personally think these are run away bullets fired by people who cant control semi automatic fire, from either rifles or pistols. |
|
The formula is fairly simple, if you are into that stuff, but that said this formula was made for use on hard targets not soft, whatever number comes out as V= would have to be divided twice for soft earth and also the variable of direction, bottom line a .223 or .308 could not travel that far in ricochet form.
That said this is a case of CJRPC placating to CJPL, it could also be a clean up issue, all of the lead hitting the back birm, who knows! |
|
Quoted:
The formula is fairly simple, if you are into that stuff, but that said this formula was made for use on hard targets not soft, whatever number comes out as V= would have to be divided twice for soft earth and also the variable of direction, bottom line a .223 or .308 could not travel that far in ricochet form. That said this is a case of CJRPC placating to CJPL, it could also be a clean up issue, all of the lead hitting the back birm, who knows! I havnt really checked out the consistency of the soil, but wouldn't soil with more rocks and harder particles be less soft then just plain soil? Either way, the way I am reading it, it was like they were under a barrage of fire. It makes me wonder if the rounds were even getting there. Maybe they just imagined it as they were hearing the snaps. I would like to hear the linesman describe what they heard. Also, if they had a specific task to finish on the tower, did they finish it or did they leave? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I couldn't solve that equation if you gave me two calculators, a foreign exchange student and the answer. However it is very interesting nonetheless. I really didn't believe a riccochet could go that distance. An errant round however, we all need to be careful for those. Lugerman, that is so interesting. I had no idea those berms were once four foot high. I wish they would fix that. Good info. I do love that club. Me either haha. The berms still have to be like 3 feet high. Not as of last Sunday. They all have been graded to almost level now. I was there (the AP range) around 1pm on sunday. Maybe it was my imagination, but the berms appeared as normal, except the dirt was obviously moved around and smoothed out. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The formula is fairly simple, if you are into that stuff, but that said this formula was made for use on hard targets not soft, whatever number comes out as V= would have to be divided twice for soft earth and also the variable of direction, bottom line a .223 or .308 could not travel that far in ricochet form. That said this is a case of CJRPC placating to CJPL, it could also be a clean up issue, all of the lead hitting the back birm, who knows! I havnt really checked out the consistency of the soil, but wouldn't soil with more rocks and harder particles be less soft then just plain soil? Either way, the way I am reading it, it was like they were under a barrage of fire. It makes me wonder if the rounds were even getting there. Maybe they just imagined it as they were hearing the snaps. I would like to hear the linesman describe what they heard. Also, if they had a specific task to finish on the tower, did they finish it or did they leave? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I couldn't solve that equation if you gave me two calculators, a foreign exchange student and the answer. However it is very interesting nonetheless. I really didn't believe a riccochet could go that distance. An errant round however, we all need to be careful for those. Lugerman, that is so interesting. I had no idea those berms were once four foot high. I wish they would fix that. Good info. I do love that club. Me either haha. The berms still have to be like 3 feet high. Not as of last Sunday. They all have been graded to almost level now. I was there (the AP range) around 1pm on sunday. Maybe it was my imagination, but the berms appeared as normal, except the dirt was obviously moved around and smoothed out. I already had taken that into account, semi soft soil, but I think you are correct even if the bullet hit a rock, no way could it have hit! |
| this story has to be crap. i doubt highly that these workers had anything wizzin' by them other than a couple of bugs. from that distance a ricochet isn't going to wiz. and the bullet drop has to be obscene with a lower velocity. the board is just panicking in my opinion. they don't want what happened at the delran marksmen club. a total shutdown for 6+ months. |
|
Quoted:
this story has to be crap. i doubt highly that these workers had anything wizzin' by them other than a couple of bugs. from that distance a ricochet isn't going to wiz. and the bullet drop has to be obscene with a lower velocity. the board is just panicking in my opinion. they don't want what happened at the delran marksmen club. a total shutdown for 6+ months. Crap is right. It's all about the lead issue and keeping the lead on club property. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
this story has to be crap. i doubt highly that these workers had anything wizzin' by them other than a couple of bugs. from that distance a ricochet isn't going to wiz. and the bullet drop has to be obscene with a lower velocity. the board is just panicking in my opinion. they don't want what happened at the delran marksmen club. a total shutdown for 6+ months. Crap is right. It's all about the lead issue and keeping the lead on club property. Then why wouldn't they come right out and say that? Why muster up a fake story about JCP&L linesman? Here is an idea. If we can access where that tower is located, we should check the surrounding area for lead or bullet impacts? Thats a grand idea IMO! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
this story has to be crap. i doubt highly that these workers had anything wizzin' by them other than a couple of bugs. from that distance a ricochet isn't going to wiz. and the bullet drop has to be obscene with a lower velocity. the board is just panicking in my opinion. they don't want what happened at the delran marksmen club. a total shutdown for 6+ months. Crap is right. It's all about the lead issue and keeping the lead on club property. Then why wouldn't they come right out and say that? Why muster up a fake story about JCP&L linesman? Here is an idea. If we can access where that tower is located, we should check the surrounding area for lead or bullet impacts? Thats a grand idea IMO! You don't know the guys on the BOD do you? Fake stories are the norm when they want to do something like that. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
this story has to be crap. i doubt highly that these workers had anything wizzin' by them other than a couple of bugs. from that distance a ricochet isn't going to wiz. and the bullet drop has to be obscene with a lower velocity. the board is just panicking in my opinion. they don't want what happened at the delran marksmen club. a total shutdown for 6+ months. Crap is right. It's all about the lead issue and keeping the lead on club property. Then why wouldn't they come right out and say that? Why muster up a fake story about JCP&L linesman? Here is an idea. If we can access where that tower is located, we should check the surrounding area for lead or bullet impacts? Thats a grand idea IMO! You don't know the guys on the BOD do you? Fake stories are the norm when they want to do something like that. Forutunetly I do not. I have been told to steer clear of them and anything to do with them or their postions. Sounds pathetic. Also, do we have a final bill on what its going to cost to remove the lead from the pits? In November, I remember them approving another $400k sent towards the project. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
this story has to be crap. i doubt highly that these workers had anything wizzin' by them other than a couple of bugs. from that distance a ricochet isn't going to wiz. and the bullet drop has to be obscene with a lower velocity. the board is just panicking in my opinion. they don't want what happened at the delran marksmen club. a total shutdown for 6+ months. Crap is right. It's all about the lead issue and keeping the lead on club property. Then why wouldn't they come right out and say that? Why muster up a fake story about JCP&L linesman? Here is an idea. If we can access where that tower is located, we should check the surrounding area for lead or bullet impacts? Thats a grand idea IMO! You don't know the guys on the BOD do you? Fake stories are the norm when they want to do something like that. Forutunetly I do not. I have been told to steer clear of them and anything to do with them or their postions. Sounds pathetic. Also, do we have a final bill on what its going to cost to remove the lead from the pits? In November, I remember them approving another $400k sent towards the project. The problem is apparently when we put in the new road aggregate, and a couple of other improvements, they enver got the permissions from the Pinelands Commission in writing. NOW all of a sudden the PC is saying we are inv iolation and everything got shut down. on the GOOD side, it looks like its all resolved at this point, and the berms look about done as well, or they did when I was there on monday. |
| So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. |
|
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. that is such fucking bullshit. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. that is such fucking bullshit. Agreed and it could get worse from what I'm hearing. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. that is such fucking bullshit. Agreed and it could get worse from what I'm hearing. Yeah,like how much are dues going to be next year ! It seems like everything they do,costs double $$ |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. so steel and jugs past 100yds are still ok? No answer on shooting prone? |
|
Quoted:
Still should be fine.
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. so steel and jugs past 100yds are still ok? YES No answer on shooting prone? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Still should be fine.
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. so steel and jugs past 100yds are still ok? YES No answer on shooting prone? Where do I find the 6' target holders, or should I just make some? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Still should be fine.
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, Whats the bottom line. Can we shoot our steel/jugs/pins hanging on a holder at the proper height. Do we have to shoot out pins and jugs and steel out past 100yds? Can we shoot them at all or just paper now? (Not happy with that option) Has anyone taken in account for shooting prone? If I hang my target up at 6' (like the bulletin says) and shoot prone, I will shoot over the berm. Someone needs to think this out. I agree with the previous poster that it prolly wasnt a ricochet, it was prolly some fool who cant shoot. No targets other then paper before the 100 yard berm. Paper only on the clubs 6 ft. target stands. I asked if we could put pins and jugs on a 6 foot platform. Negative. so steel and jugs past 100yds are still ok? YES No answer on shooting prone? Where do I find the 6' target holders, or should I just make some? They said they built some, but I would build a simple 1x3 or similar one for myself |
|
Quoted:
So all of our stands have to be this high? WBK Yes, but I believe only at the 50,100, and 150 yard positions. Lugerman will know for sure. Also, I would suggest everyone just make new target holders for their own use. The chances of these holders growing in numbers or staying around for use for any lengthy period of time seems questionable. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks 240. Are there plans for the new holders yet? WBK Same as the old ones, except longer! 
EDIT: I made mine 6' overall in height with a 12" x 24" backer, when I got to the club, the targets they made are the same height, except with a 12" x 12" backer. I used 1" x 2" wood. They come precut at 6' from lowes or homedepot making it fairly easy. The iron holders on the range require the inner dimension to be 12". Most of the iron holders have pieces of twisted metal or some shit welded to them for apparently no reason making finding a good spot for your target a PITA occasionally. I slightly bend the holders to achieve a tighter fit. Throw some of those orange rubber coated spring loaded clamps on after mounting if you want. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks 240. Are there plans for the new holders yet? WBK Same as the old ones, except longer!
EDIT: I made mine 6' overall in height with a 12" x 24" backer, when I got to the club, the targets they made are the same height, except with a 12" x 12" backer. I used 1" x 2" wood. They come precut at 6' from lowes or homedepot making it fairly easy. The iron holders on the range require the inner dimension to be 12". Most of the iron holders have pieces of twisted metal or some shit welded to them for apparently no reason making finding a good spot for your target a PITA occasionally. I slightly bend the holders to achieve a tighter fit. Throw some of those orange rubber coated spring loaded clamps on after mounting if you want. Got it - Thanks!. Guess I need to make a trip over to Home Depot and pick up more 1 x 2's. The old ones are pretty shot up anyway. I've got two cousins coming over from Austria May 21st and they can't wait to go to the range! WBK Edit - Good idea about the width of the backers and using clamps too. That was always annoyong when the backers wouldn't fit properly because I made them exactly 12" wide. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went to the club last night after work. (btw, eotech + 3x mag + 300m = no go for now) This whole 6' thing applies to both the GP and the hi power range. But of course. I'll be there this afternoon. Sadly, I have a birthday party to attend. 
I will however be there tomorrow. Hey tom, what exactly is wrong with your oculars? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went to the club last night after work. (btw, eotech + 3x mag + 300m = no go for now) This whole 6' thing applies to both the GP and the hi power range. But of course. I'll be there this afternoon. Sadly, I have a birthday party to attend.
I will however be there tomorrow. Hey tom, what exactly is wrong with your oculars? I'll be out Sunday AM too. Nothing but getting old and wearing bifocals. Not the greatest combination to see small targets past 100 yards anymore. Probably time for a stronger prescription too. 
|
|
This is ridiculous. I got that "emergency response" letter in the mail announcing the 6' target holders. This is total bullshit. These guys need to be voted out asap. I agree they are telling stories and out and out lying about the JCP&L linesmen. (the grammar in that letter was just top shelf stuff. real professional...)
The club is very quickly going the way of everything else in NJ. "Oh yeah, we need to raise your dues/(taxes) to do maintenance you already pay dues for and while we are at it we are gonna make 'improvements' that the BOD wants and by the way, we are gonna restrict your usage of other facilities for your own safety, because you can't be trusted." |
| I'm not a member but I was actually thinking of becoming one as Range 14 is to crowded. I have a simple fix. Just have JCP+L notify the range when they are going to be on the tower. The range could be closed for that time. My guess is they know well in advance when they need to access the tower. Unless the story is BS. Just my .02. |