Posted: 9/3/2011 7:09:45 AM EDT
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Hello is it ok legally to swap my .223 upper onto my .22lr lower .my buffer pin popped out ,and the buffer jammed the gun .I also had my spikes st 22 with me so swapped lowers and carried on but the bloke at the range got a bit upset me running a CF on a rimfire lower .All the spikes lowers are the same spec anyway whatever cal they have on them .
Mick |
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I can see the man's point, I suspect he's unfamiliar with AR's though. The trouble is, the AR's modularity is not catered for. Each gun serial number on your FAC will relate to a specific calibre, yes? Therefore if you're using a .22lr serialed lower with a .223 upper, that's not what is says on your FAC. Your RO is essentially saying the same thing. However, I agree you should be able to. I suppose it could be got round by declaring your lowers/uppers interchangable on your FAC. When I started with a .22lr AR I later applied for a .223 and explained that I would get the upper first, and another lower later. So I acquired an upper, with of course NVN, which I used on my .22lr lower until it got it's own, and made a complete new rifle. As I explained it all beforehand it wasn't a problem, although I can see where you man is coming from......... I think as long as you can account for what you are authorised to possess, you will be ok........of course, the other 42 Forces may have 42 different opinions..
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I can see the man's point, I suspect he's unfamiliar with AR's though. The trouble is, the AR's modularity is not catered for. Each gun serial number on your FAC will relate to a specific calibre, yes? Therefore if you're using a .22lr serialed lower with a .223 upper, that's not what is says on your FAC. Your RO is essentially saying the same thing. However, I agree you should be able to. I suppose it could be got round by declaring your lowers/uppers interchangable on your FAC. When I started with a .22lr AR I later applied for a .223 and explained that I would get the upper first, and another lower later. So I acquired an upper, with of course NVN, which I used on my .22lr lower until it got it's own, and made a complete new rifle. As I explained it all beforehand it wasn't a problem, although I can see where you man is coming from......... I think as long as you can account for what you are authorised to possess, you will be ok........of course, the other 42 Forces may have 42 different opinions.. For the purposes of shooting it's really irrelevant. If the kit is listed on Aggy's ticket and he is passed for the calibres concerned then it is really not something that anyone is going to be bothered about. It would take a pedantic busybody with nothing better to do but make a twat of themselves to take issue with it. Your point about the 43 different opinions interpretations is, of course bang on. I'd have been inclined to offer an explaination to the aforementioned "Range expert" and if he continued to make a prick of himself ask him explain why it is causing a problem. FWIW I have my lowers and uppers all listed as seperate entities on my ticket and conditioned for use as combinations thereof. It's great when the legislation and systems surrounding it are so complicated and contradictory. |
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Quoted: Quoted: So none of you think education is worthwhile? I did suggest offering an explanation above You also wrote him off as a tit, which may or may not be the case. Consider this: Having escaped the orbit of the Range Nazi Aggy is on the way home when he is stopped by Pc Savage for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area. Aggy smoothly talks his way out of a FPN, PC Savage then asks.'what's in the back Mr. Aggy?' 'Guns actually' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' 'Got your heff hay see wiv you?' 'Yes hofficer' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' After pondering over a document he probably only ever sees once every ten years PC Savage's brow furrows and he remarks 'It sez 'ere that your hay har fifteen serial no. ABC123 is .22lr. This 'ere barrel wot is on it sez .223.......................you're nicked son' Interestingly, as an aside, neither of my AR lowers, one an SGC the other a Sabre Defence, has the calibre marked on, just serial nos.. |
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So none of you think education is worthwhile? I did suggest offering an explanation above You also wrote him off as a tit, which may or may not be the case. Consider this: Having escaped the orbit of the Range Nazi Aggy is on the way home when he is stopped by Pc Savage for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area. Aggy smoothly talks his way out of a FPN, PC Savage then asks.'what's in the back Mr. Aggy?' 'Guns actually' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' 'Got your heff hay see wiv you?' 'Yes hofficer' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' After pondering over a document he probably only ever sees once every ten years PC Savage's brow furrows and he remarks 'It sez 'ere that your hay har fifteen serial no. ABC123 is .22lr. This 'ere barrel wot is on it sez .223.......................you're nicked son' Interestingly, as an aside, neither of my AR lowers, one an SGC the other a Sabre Defence, has the calibre marked on, just serial nos.. Push out two pins, separate each upper and lower. Job done. |
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The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database.
I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail |
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So none of you think education is worthwhile? I did suggest offering an explanation above You also wrote him off as a tit, which may or may not be the case. Consider this: Having escaped the orbit of the Range Nazi Aggy is on the way home when he is stopped by Pc Savage for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area. Aggy smoothly talks his way out of a FPN, PC Savage then asks.'what's in the back Mr. Aggy?' 'Guns actually' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' 'Got your heff hay see wiv you?' 'Yes hofficer' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' After pondering over a document he probably only ever sees once every ten years PC Savage's brow furrows and he remarks 'It sez 'ere that your hay har fifteen serial no. ABC123 is .22lr. This 'ere barrel wot is on it sez .223.......................you're nicked son' Interestingly, as an aside, neither of my AR lowers, one an SGC the other a Sabre Defence, has the calibre marked on, just serial nos.. What a waste of taxpayers money that would be. Not exactly a risk based approach to law enforcement I'm sure you;d agree. Nicking a law abiding person for being in posession of something that is listed on his FAC and is in his possession lawfully? The items will be listed on his FAC, and he will have conditions on the front page allowing him to shoot the calibres specified on ranges/land or whatever. It wouldn't be Aggy's fault if PC Savage is lacking the training and skills to recognise a flawed firearms licensing system that is inflexible, onerous and over-bearing in it's efforts to regulate the life out of law abiding people in persuait of lawful activities. Come to mention it, it's not PC Savage's fault that the system is so overbearing complex and contradictory. As for the Range Nazi, he could have asked about the issue and learned something. Instead he made a fellow shooter feel uncomfortable, unwelcome and made him doubt his legitimacy as a shooter even with all the aforementioned uppers and lowers listed on his ticket....... with conditions for use on ranges in place. No wonder this sport has spent so long on it's arse with pedants like that trying to find minor technical anomalies to stuff up someone's day on the range. Furthermore, the Range Nazi also failed to recognise that Aggy's activities, lawful as they were, posed no risk or immediate danger (assuming the rifle calibre was permitted at the range of course ).
Honeslty.... I sometimes think that the biggest anti's are shooters themselves. |
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Quoted: I agree, make sure the right bits are together, but if you went out with the 'wrong' bit together because they were what was working you could come unstuck. I agree it's a technicality but you can't expect the authorities entrusted with firearms licensing and enforcement to know anything about guns...Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So none of you think education is worthwhile? I did suggest offering an explanation above You also wrote him off as a tit, which may or may not be the case. Consider this: Having escaped the orbit of the Range Nazi Aggy is on the way home when he is stopped by Pc Savage for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area. Aggy smoothly talks his way out of a FPN, PC Savage then asks.'what's in the back Mr. Aggy?' 'Guns actually' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' 'Got your heff hay see wiv you?' 'Yes hofficer' 'Gissa look then' 'Certainly' After pondering over a document he probably only ever sees once every ten years PC Savage's brow furrows and he remarks 'It sez 'ere that your hay har fifteen serial no. ABC123 is .22lr. This 'ere barrel wot is on it sez .223.......................you're nicked son' Interestingly, as an aside, neither of my AR lowers, one an SGC the other a Sabre Defence, has the calibre marked on, just serial nos.. Push out two pins, separate each upper and lower. Job done.  |
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The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail Yeah.... you and Icarus both have a point on that..... and despite the irrelevance of the technicallity as Icarus rightly suggests there will always be some doofus who wants to kae a meal of it. Aggy, One option is to phone your FEO on Monday and tell them what you do with the uppers and lowers. Explain your problem and then ask them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. |
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Quoted: The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail 'swot I said........and please don't talk firearms licensing and common sense in the same scenario... |
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Quoted: Quoted: The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail Yeah.... you and Icarus both have a point on that..... and despite the irrelevance of the technicallity as Icarus rightly suggests there will always be some doofus who wants to kae a meal of it. Aggy, One option is to phone your FEO on Monday and tell them what you do with the uppers and lowers. Explain your problem and then ask them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. It's not just the doofus factor, PC Savage would be correct in his assertion that those two bits don't belong together, according to the paperwork presented, and therefore that is an unlicensed firearm and rubber glove time  |
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The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail Yeah.... you and Icarus both have a point on that..... and despite the irrelevance of the technicallity as Icarus rightly suggests there will always be some doofus who wants to kae a meal of it. Aggy, One option is to phone your FEO on Monday and tell them what you do with the uppers and lowers. Explain your problem and then ask them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. It's not just the doofus factor, PC Savage would be correct in his assertion that those two bits don't belong together, and therefore that is an unlicensed firearm and rubber glove time We all better get a variation and have our tickets changed then 
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The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail Yeah.... you and Icarus both have a point on that..... and despite the irrelevance of the technicallity as Icarus rightly suggests there will always be some doofus who wants to kae a meal of it. Aggy, One option is to phone your FEO on Monday and tell them what you do with the uppers and lowers. Explain your problem and then ask them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. It's not just the doofus factor, PC Savage would be correct in his assertion that those two bits don't belong together, according to the paperwork presented, and therefore that is an unlicensed firearm and rubber glove time You are of course relying on the fact that PC Savage would recognise the calibre is wrong for the serial number - which is pretty unlikely. If he did, he would probably be able to understand the reasoning behind the upper/lower swap.... |
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Quoted: It's one of those anomalies in firearms licensing that has never been tested. My own view is that if you are in possession of all the relevant bits of firearm, you won't have a problem. For instance, you could have all your uppers and lowers separated, but present together and it would comply with what is on your FAC. However, if you went out solely with your serialed .22lr lower attached to your .223 upper you could have a problem, unless your .223 upper is separately identified on your FAC.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail Yeah.... you and Icarus both have a point on that..... and despite the irrelevance of the technicallity as Icarus rightly suggests there will always be some doofus who wants to kae a meal of it. Aggy, One option is to phone your FEO on Monday and tell them what you do with the uppers and lowers. Explain your problem and then ask them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. It's not just the doofus factor, PC Savage would be correct in his assertion that those two bits don't belong together, and therefore that is an unlicensed firearm and rubber glove time We all better get a variation and have our tickets changed then As I've just spent 4 years shooting with the wrong conditions on my FAC (their admitted mistake, now corrected) I wouldn't worry too much, but it's an interesting technicality argument..
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Quoted: me too Quoted: It's one of those anomalies in firearms licensing that has never been tested. My own view is that if you are in possession of all the relevant bits of firearm, you won't have a problem. For instance, you could have all your uppers and lowers separated, but present together and it would comply with what is on your FAC. However, if you went out solely with your serialed .22lr lower attached to your .223 upper you could have a problem, unless your .223 upper is separately identified on your FAC.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The issue as I see it is that you have technically created a firearm that doesn't exist and is therefore not on any license, register or database. I know that for the purposes of this that it isn't a big deal....but it might be. That said, the RO should have let common sense prevail Yeah.... you and Icarus both have a point on that..... and despite the irrelevance of the technicallity as Icarus rightly suggests there will always be some doofus who wants to kae a meal of it. Aggy, One option is to phone your FEO on Monday and tell them what you do with the uppers and lowers. Explain your problem and then ask them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. It's not just the doofus factor, PC Savage would be correct in his assertion that those two bits don't belong together, and therefore that is an unlicensed firearm and rubber glove time We all better get a variation and have our tickets changed then As I've just spent 4 years shooting with the wrong conditions on my FAC (their admitted mistake, now corrected) I wouldn't worry too much, but it's an interesting technicality argument..  sort of |