Posted: 1/21/2011 6:51:31 AM EDT
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The sponsored rifle competition planned for April 2011 at W.M.S. in mid-Wales been cancelled.
Don't know why, or why I received an email about it. |
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Also the fact that the MOD wouldn,t issue a range certificate on inspection. Dont ask me what they were inspecting for, as i dont know. However, everyone that does know isn,t saying, so its no wonder that people take a guess really.  I thought the MoD didnt issue range certs anymore ???? |
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They do for their own use, and it wasn,t suitable. Appriciate that point Dave, but that would not effect civilian use, as long as it is Licenced by the Home Office and has the relevent insurance in place. I can see this topic going full circle as before
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I stand corrected, yes for their own use it would need a Range Certificate issued by the relevant MoD Authority and would only use it on signing a MoD Form 906, they don't certify private ranges anymore. Couldn't they(MOD) simply decline to participate though, as it doesn't meet their, albeit self-imposed criteria. From a commercial standpoint this would have an adverse effect on other participants and therefore organisers and sponsors? |
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They do for their own use, and it wasn,t suitable. Appriciate that point Dave, but that would not effect civilian use, as long as it is Licenced by the Home Office and has the relevent insurance in place. I can see this topic going full circle as before I can see the problem now being that as the MoD did inspect and deem unsuitable then any civilian use as a 'Range" (as opposed to a place where a 'Open' ticket holder uses it to zero his stalking rifle) would be on dodgy ground with an insurance company if they heard of the MoD Assessment. Probably would have been better not to invite the MoD to inspect unless they were 100% certain that it would meet all their criteria (and there are lots). |
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I stand corrected, yes for their own use it would need a Range Certificate issued by the relevant MoD Authority and would only use it on signing a MoD Form 906, they don't certify private ranges anymore. This is as I understand it. To my knowledge there is no range licensing. Clubs have to be registered (hence the club number) however from what I'm being told at the moment if you want to set up your own private range and have people come on and shoot competitions on it then there is no licensing regime since the MOD ceased certifying ranges 2-3 years ago. There are people out there who act as consultants on this issue with regards to range construction and safety areas, but I'm nopt fully familiar with this yet. A friend of mine is in the process of setting up a small zeroing range on his farm. He's an RFD and runs a clay shoot already but he's also lookig to set up a 100yd range for people to try out firearms and zero their rifles. The who safety area/backstop construction issue is what we are looking at now. If it is the lack of clear guidance on the use of the land as a range that has caused the event to be cancelled then I really sympathise with the organisers of the Welsh range.
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MoD Guidance is crystal clear and available for all to see:
JSP 403 |
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They do for their own use, and it wasn,t suitable. Appriciate that point Dave, but that would not effect civilian use, as long as it is Licenced by the Home Office and has the relevent insurance in place. I can see this topic going full circle as before I can see the problem now being that as the MoD did inspect and deem unsuitable then any civilian use as a 'Range" (as opposed to a place where a 'Open' ticket holder uses it to zero his stalking rifle) would be on dodgy ground with an insurance company if they heard of the MoD Assessment. Probably would have been better not to invite the MoD to inspect unless they were 100% certain that it would meet all their criteria (and there are lots). I think it's a little more that, although that is a valid point. The issue comes from people with open tickets shooting over the land for purposes other than those stated. For pest/vermin control, zeroing and testing purposes with an open ticket the land is probably fine, and we are covered with insurance. However, the minute you conduct competitive shooting there the question is raised about the purpose for the use (shooting on approved ranges?). The fact that approved ranges kind of loses it's meaning because there is no system of approval at the moment, will not necessarily mean you are shooting within the conditions of use stipulated on your FAC. If you are outside your conditions, your insurance may be void. No insurance company will insure you to break the law. For the purposes of the law, if this were permissable, then there would be nothing to stop those of us with an open ticket obtaining permission from any land owner and setting up a shooting competition over land provided there was a decent backstop (obviously there's a lot more to it than a backstop). To be honest the whole thing seems very confusing and needs clarification. Like I said my sympathies go to the guys trying to get the Welsh range up and running. I really hope it comes to fruition but if they are up against what we are trying to resolve with a 100yd range then they are probably being stonewalled by blank expressions and red tape from many places. It would be nice to have a clearer accreditation system that looks at each range on it's individual merits. |
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Thanks, that is helpful..... but there is still no form of accreditation system
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We have just renewed our home office licence, this week.
The MoD used to come out to see the range every 5 years, this year all we had to do was re-apply for the licence from the home office. We still have our initial Range saftey cert issued by the MoD in the 80's when our range was moved from its original location and rebuilt in its currant location. An MoD inspector visited the range regullay during its construction as it was built to ensure it was 'to spec' I was not involved in the club then (still at school), but my dad was and is the currant club sec. We do have photos documenting the full construction of the range which is a 6 lane 100 Mtr (110 yd) NDA range. |
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We have just renewed our home office licence, this week. The MoD used to come out to see the range every 5 years, this year all we had to do was re-apply for the licence from the home office. We still have our initial Range saftey cert issued by the MoD in the 80's when our range was moved from its original location and rebuilt in its currant location. An MoD inspector visited the range regullay during its construction as it was built to ensure it was 'to spec' I believe that the thinking behind this is that as long as the range hasn't been altered then the original certificate will still be valid and doesn't need to be re-issued. However if it has now been changed I've no idea what will happen. |
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We have just renewed our home office licence, this week. The MoD used to come out to see the range every 5 years, this year all we had to do was re-apply for the licence from the home office. We still have our initial Range saftey cert issued by the MoD in the 80's when our range was moved from its original location and rebuilt in its currant location. An MoD inspector visited the range regullay during its construction as it was built to ensure it was 'to spec' I believe that the thinking behind this is that as long as the range hasn't been altered then the original certificate will still be valid and doesn't need to be re-issued. However if it has now been changed I've no idea what will happen. Rixy, it was moved in the 80's a re certified on completion |
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We have just renewed our home office licence, this week. The MoD used to come out to see the range every 5 years, this year all we had to do was re-apply for the licence from the home office. We still have our initial Range saftey cert issued by the MoD in the 80's when our range was moved from its original location and rebuilt in its currant location. An MoD inspector visited the range regullay during its construction as it was built to ensure it was 'to spec' I believe that the thinking behind this is that as long as the range hasn't been altered then the original certificate will still be valid and doesn't need to be re-issued. However if it has now been changed I've no idea what will happen. Rixy, it was moved in the 80's a re certified on completion Yep, but now that MOD stopped certifying a couple of years back I'm not sure what would happen if it was modified since then. |
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They do for their own use, and it wasn,t suitable. Appriciate that point Dave, but that would not effect civilian use, as long as it is Licenced by the Home Office and has the relevent insurance in place. I can see this topic going full circle as before I can see the problem now being that as the MoD did inspect and deem unsuitable then any civilian use as a 'Range" (as opposed to a place where a 'Open' ticket holder uses it to zero his stalking rifle) would be on dodgy ground with an insurance company if they heard of the MoD Assessment. Probably would have been better not to invite the MoD to inspect unless they were 100% certain that it would meet all their criteria (and there are lots). Bingo! Who would insure a range that the 'Professional Assessors' had failed ..............? |
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Sounds like they shot themselves in the foot, especially so as they appeared somewhat naive after all that was posted here in the last thread.
It's a shame but they did seem a little ignorant of the requirements, especially when it came to liability insurance and the stating that you had to have your own. Good job LittleGavin didn't go ahead and build a supergun for teh event 
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How does the range at Aberystwyth differ from the private range at Radnor that the FCSA use  Didn't that one get closed down for similar reasons? FCSA use "F" Range Sennybridge, C 8 Range, Warcop & Serial 45 Range, Lydd, all MOD ranges THe FCSA have definatley shot at Radnor, maybe not recently, I shot at Radnor a good few years ago and it was a good day out |