Posted: 1/6/2009 2:08:08 PM EDT
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Canot recall where I read it and was unable to find anything on the interweb on it but.............
Apparently, the future of sniping lays in the remote control sniper ! A rifle is mounted on a low profile mini caterpillar tracked vehicle. The rifle can be sighted via cctv by an operator much like the drones over Iraq operated by a boffin in a portacabin on an airbase in Nevada. The unit is parachuted into the operation zone. It does not need food or water. It does not need to poo into plastic bags. It does not suffer fatigue. It will wait patiently for the target to present itself etc etc Deniability is a bonus too, for even if captured, there is no proof of who is behind the operation / assassination / call it what you will. Only thing I could think of as a problem was clearing stoppages if the weapon jams................. |
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Well, I assume an electric motor is fairly quiet. Probably possible to cam it / disguise it as something else, prior to insertion.
Probably better for ambush than stalking but in theory the cctv would see what the sniper would see, and it could be propelled anywhere he/she could have crawled ? As to wind reading - a wind meter on the machine would read wind where its likely to affect the bullet most - and the operator could see via cctv the other indicators of wind that the sniper would read ? Still a human, deciding the path to take, the laying up position to choose and pulling the trigger - just remotely. And of all the stages, the infiltration is painstaking, risky and tiring, the wait can be long and then the act of pulling the trigger is nothing compared to the ability to exfiltrate - having alerted the enemy to the presence of a sniper by firing, the tough bit is getting out alive. This is not an issue with the remote control unit. |
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Well, I assume an electric motor is fairly quiet. Probably possible to cam it / disguise it as something else, prior to insertion. Probably better for ambush than stalking but in theory the cctv would see what the sniper would see, and it could be propelled anywhere he could have crawled ? As to wind reading - a wind meter on the machine would read wind where its likely to affect the bullet most - and the operator could see via cctv the other indicators of wind that the sniper would read ? Still a human, deciding the path to take, the laying up position to choose and pulling the trigger - just remotely. And of all the stages, the infiltration is painstaking, risky and tiring, the wait can be long and then the act of pulling the trigger is nothing compared to the ability to exfiltrate - having alerted the enemy to the presence of a sniper by firing, the tough bit is getting out alive. This is not an issue with the remote control unit. You just haven't got the awareness with a machine that a human has. Any movement is going to draw the eye, and a computer operator potentially hundreds of miles away just isn't going to have it. The silhouette alone is going going to be far greater than a human sniper and the pure reactions just aren't going to be there. I'm sure in this day and age of health and safety and risk assesment some bright spark thought this would be a good idea, but come on, you just can't replace a highly trained sniper! I'm not having a pop at you by the way! |
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Well, I assume an electric motor is fairly quiet. Probably possible to cam it / disguise it as something else, prior to insertion. Probably better for ambush than stalking but in theory the cctv would see what the sniper would see, and it could be propelled anywhere he could have crawled ? As to wind reading - a wind meter on the machine would read wind where its likely to affect the bullet most - and the operator could see via cctv the other indicators of wind that the sniper would read ? Still a human, deciding the path to take, the laying up position to choose and pulling the trigger - just remotely. And of all the stages, the infiltration is painstaking, risky and tiring, the wait can be long and then the act of pulling the trigger is nothing compared to the ability to exfiltrate - having alerted the enemy to the presence of a sniper by firing, the tough bit is getting out alive. This is not an issue with the remote control unit. You just haven't got the awareness with a machine that a human has. Any movement is going to draw the eye, and a computer operator potentially hundreds of miles away just isn't going to have it. The silhouette alone is going going to be far greater than a human sniper and the pure reactions just aren't going to be there. I'm sure in this day and age of health and safety and risk assesment some bright spark thought this would be a good idea, but come on, you just can't replace a highly trained sniper! I'm not having a pop at you by the way! I know. 
Yes, I agree ( especially being a bit of a luddite when it comes to new fangled gadgets - and the instability of computers ) that the human touch can be better. Though I can see where it might be an option in operations where the risks are bordering on suicidal or where deniability is required. |
| It may have some limited use but I would be surprised if it could climb towers and negotiate rough ground etc. Concealment has already been mentioned. Also a large part of what snipers do involves covert observation and intelligence gathering, not a job for a machine rumbling about the landscape...... |
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As with most developments of technology, it's not about replacment but augmentation. Another tool to use - A sniper who can be inserted 3 months before you need him, isn't affected by fatigue (although battery life might be an issue) and doesn't need resupply might be useful, just like a drone with 36 hours endurance - you don't need it all the time but having the capability can come in handy...
You always need a man in the loop but that man doesn't always have to be on the spot. Watching the big screens in Qatar and Nevada isn't always perfect but usualy it's good enough. One interesting fact is that there have been very few blue on blue from UAVs - there are lots of limiting factors as to the use of any unmanned system, but having it as an option can be extremely useful. Snipers are now recognised as making a massive difference, and the use of them is taken much more seriously at a senior level, and I don't see that being replaced by a new wheelbarrow in the next few years. |
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Think you mean this or this ? Saw it on Future Weapons with a .50 M82 mounted.... seem to remember it being able to track multiple targets and engage very quickly... Yes thats the idea. The one I saw was about 3 foot wide, 5 foot long and 1 foot high - very low profile - the rifle was inside with only barrel produting at the front rather than on top. Yes, from the points raised, I can see that although there are things it can do better than a human but there are a few things it CANNOT do as well as a human. |
It will break down, fall down stairs, be wiped out by an EMP......be incapable of negotiating tight spaces, have a hissy fit everytime someone keys a radio mic within 500yds, and, as Mark says it can't read wind.......oh yeah, it still needs a human operator and costs mucho wonga.....
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It will break down, fall down stairs, be wiped out by an EMP......be incapable of negotiating tight spaces, have a hissy fit everytime someone keys a radio mic within 500yds, and, as Mark says it can't read wind.......oh yeah, it still needs a human operator and costs mucho wonga.....
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
If you can get near enough to pop a cap in that lenses ass, then you da man, man 
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
If you can get near enough to pop a cap in that lenses ass, then you da man, man
A human sniper could........................  ,.................of course if it had cctv and thermal it might be more interesting..
In all seriousness I reckon there's plenty of military snipers that could take that lens out before they were spotted.and probably a good few on here too....... |
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
As opposed to human sentries who have bulletproof eyes?
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
As opposed to human sentries who have bulletproof eyes? Off the point Matt. Sentries are not snipers, neither is this thing. It's a really cool toy with some limited applications but will not replace a human sniper..................it would make a crap sentry as well...............
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
As opposed to human sentries who have bulletproof eyes? Off the point Matt. Sentries are not snipers, neither is this thing. It's a really cool toy with some limited applications but will not replace a human sniper..................it would make a crap sentry as well...............
But think of the fun you could have driving it down Barton Street; while sat in a nice warm office with a cup of coffee! |
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I've been following this and think that technology needs to advance some more.
Chameleon type camouflage with solar panel self charging cells is what is required, as to the method of movement, hovering and flight al la helicopter, and instead of a rifle a laser target designator for the prowler type unmanned bomb's or the air forces impressive array of LTD missiles & rockets. It's great living in cuckoo land,  .
Tony |
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More info on the 'bot
Qinetiq ships first 'Transformer' war-droid http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/05/qinetiq_first_maars_shipment/ Cunningly disguised as heavily armed killer robot 
By Lewis Page Posted in Policing, 5th June 2008 12:17 GMT The US war robot manufacturing arm of controversial Brit gov spinoff bonanza company Qinetiq has announced the first shipment of its so-called "Transformer" battle droid. Qinetiq informs the world today that the MAARS - Modular Advanced Armed Robotic System - has now been placed in the hands of the US military's Combating Terrorism Technical Support Office, also famous for its combat deployable climate-controlled swimming pools for US Navy war dolphins*. A MAARS in play keeps the terrorist at bay Force escalation: non-lethal, less-lethal, totally lethal or 'groundbreaking'. “The MAARS robot, building on valuable experience gained with our SWORDS robot system in Iraq, is now ready to provide the needed core platform to develop tactics, techniques and procedures for using armed, yet human-controlled**, robotic ground systems," says Qinetiq's Dr William Ribich. The SWORDS robot (Special Weapons Observation Reconnaissance Direct-action System) has apparently never fired a shot in combat, so the experience must be a little limited. And, contrary to sensationalist reports in the gutter press, SWORDS absolutely never swivelled its guns round unexpectedly, causing nearby Americans to fear an automated killing spree. Well, actually there were "several minor movement issues", according to Qinetiq, but only in American testing, not in Iraq, and the nearby humans - Qinetiq engineers - weren't frightened at all. Indeed, they "expected" such events. So the lessons learned in Iraq were not those of how to suppress homicidal mutiny among the machine warriors, either - Qinetiq wants to be absolutely crystal clear on that. Even so, it seems that most of the differences between SWORDS and MAARS consist of extra safety features and tighter control for the machine's human overseer. SWORDS was already able to mount a fearful array of weapons if desired: machine guns in various calibres, grenade throwers, even rocket launchers capable of taking out a tank. Initially, however, SWORDS was sent to Iraq with only a 5.56mm light automatic weapon. MAARS offers non-lethal options too, including a loudspeaker for shouting at non-compliant humans and "a green, eye-safe laser to dazzle people". It can also fire riot beanbags or gas bombs out of its 40mm grenade launcher. But the MAARS also offers more robust options in the event that a stern talking-to, gassing or beanbag shot to the breadbasket doesn't quell any obstreperous humans. The droid warrior also totes a hefty 7.62mm machine gun, and its 40mm quad launcher can be loaded with high-explosive grenades instead of limp-wristed riot ammo. As for safety, human troops considered to be friendly by the robo-soldiers need have no fear. "MAARS’ two-way communication features allow the operator to interact from a safe distance," according to the Qinetiq blurb. The controls work "up to a range of over one kilometre from the operator ... enhancing his survivability ... the operator always sees where the weapon is pointed in relation to himself". "No encounter is ever completely safe," adds Ribich - presumably he means an encounter with terrorists rather than one with MAARS - before going on to say reassuringly that "groundbreaking levels of force escalation will help to save both troops lives as well as non-combatants in the area." |
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
As opposed to human sentries who have bulletproof eyes? Off the point Matt. Sentries are not snipers, neither is this thing. It's a really cool toy with some limited applications but will not replace a human sniper..................it would make a crap sentry as well...............
The luddites felt that weaving machines could never make better fabric than that made by hand. And IBM when making the first computers predicted that the world would probably need a total of 5 computers. Disclaimer - the views expressed by Luddites and IBM employees are not necessarily the views of the author 
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I was reading something a while back about similar wheelbarrows with M249's being trialled for sentry duties... Ooh f**kin' yes http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/10/foster-miller-inc-robot.jpg Nah, piece of shit....one round in that huge lens and it's fucked..
As opposed to human sentries who have bulletproof eyes? Off the point Matt. Sentries are not snipers, neither is this thing. It's a really cool toy with some limited applications but will not replace a human sniper..................it would make a crap sentry as well...............
The luddites felt that weaving machines could never make better fabric than that made by hand. And IBM when making the first computers predicted that the world would probably need a total of 5 computers. Disclaimer - the views expressed by Luddites and IBM employees are not necessarily the views of the author
Weaving machines and simple IBM's work off a very simple binary system of yes no commands and if they cock it up you get either a crap rug or a blank screen. Sniping requires the assessment of multiple variables with varying degrees of effect, a risk assessment of the precise circumstances and perfect timing, not to mention escape and evasion, terrain blah blah blah.....while this will no doubt be achievable one day, mounting an M60 on Number Johnny 5 from the film Short Circuit, and expecting it to do the same job as a trained marksmen/observer is bonkers. |
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Weaving machines and simple IBM's work off a very simple binary system of yes no commands and if they cock it up you get either a crap rug or a blank screen. Sniping requires the assessment of multiple variables with varying degrees of effect, a risk assessment of the precise circumstances and perfect timing, not to mention escape and evasion, terrain blah blah blah.....while this will no doubt be achievable one day, mounting an M60 on Number Johnny 5 from the film Short Circuit, and expecting it to do the same job as a trained marksmen/observer is bonkers. Johnny 5 with the machine gun is a sentry robot not a sniper... |
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Weaving machines and simple IBM's work off a very simple binary system of yes no commands and if they cock it up you get either a crap rug or a blank screen. Wheras I guess that if the intended target is subect to a near miss from the robot sniper, he will crap on his rug ? Sniping requires the assessment of multiple variables with varying degrees of effect, a risk assessment of the precise circumstances and perfect timing, not to mention escape and evasion, terrain blah blah blah.....while this will no doubt be achievable one day, mounting an M60 on Number Johnny 5 from the film Short Circuit, and expecting it to do the same job as a trained marksmen/observer is bonkers. Johnny 5 with the machine gun is a sentry robot not a sniper...
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Weaving machines and simple IBM's work off a very simple binary system of yes no commands and if they cock it up you get either a crap rug or a blank screen. Sniping requires the assessment of multiple variables with varying degrees of effect, a risk assessment of the precise circumstances and perfect timing, not to mention escape and evasion, terrain blah blah blah.....while this will no doubt be achievable one day, mounting an M60 on Number Johnny 5 from the film Short Circuit, and expecting it to do the same job as a trained marksmen/observer is bonkers. Johnny 5 with the machine gun is a sentry robot not a sniper... You get them on Level 6 of Deus Ex, easy to defeat, just use an EMP grenade and send in the spider bombs.
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