[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Breaking News........ (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/9/2008 8:47:37 AM EDT
Housewie in Dorset mistakenly receives 'machine gun' meant to be delivered to local Police.................
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Realistic Imitation Firearm....You know...Those dangerous illegal things!
Maybe most "armed" coppers should be issued with imitations anyway. It would be safer for the public. It always strikes me that they are more interested in posing as it is. I never get that impression with Dutch or German police. Why UK police forces seem intent on the most military looking kit possible beats me....SAS wannabes perhaps! Mike |
Media Hype....again
Its that whole "Guns are Bad" thing and the media playing on the fears of an un-educated public. Fear is power after all. The actual implications of what happened appear to be that a housewife has had a glorified lazerquest toy delivered to her door. 
Even if it had fallen into the "wrong hands", what are they going to do with it? its worthless and innefective.....There's more airsoft guns out there that look the business and actually fire projectiles....You can go out and buy an Airsoft AK47 that looks and feel lke the real thing, the majority of which are used for completley harmless purposes. If it had fallen into the wrong hands it's not the gun's fault if some retard decides to go about with a toy gun and scare people. The same retard could just as easily scare people with a knife and do a damned site more damage with it. |
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Realistic Imitation Firearm....You know...Those dangerous illegal things! Maybe most "armed" coppers should be issued with imitations anyway. It would be safer for the public. It always strikes me that they are more interested in posing as it is. I never get that impression with Dutch or German police. Why UK police forces seem intent on the most military looking kit possible beats me....SAS wannabes perhaps! Mike Excellent, you clearly know where we can get some non-military looking: 5.56mm semi-automatic carbines with hi-cap magazines and options for optical sights 7.62mm sniper rifles (bolt and semi-auto options)with detachable magazines and telescopic sights 9mm semi-automatic pistols with hi-cap magazines Pump/semi-auto shotguns Wearing/carrying systems associated with all the above Bullet/stab resistant body armour Ballistic helmets Respirators Coveralls suitable for firearms use on extended operations Boots for the same etc. etc................. Let me have this 'non-military looking all the above stuff and more..'supplier's telephone number and I'll give them a bell..Seriously, if Chief Constables could have us looking totally unlike the military they would. It's rather like saying 'Why do sporting shooters use military camouflage clothing and shoot with military style/tactical rifles..........wannabes perhaps? The other side of it, and the sad reality is that the military and police mission are getting ever closer together. You can bury your head in the sand all you like, but that's what's happening. We have never been closer to the military than we are right now. We learn things from each other and have overlap in some areas, particularly firearms work so it's hardly surprising that we have the same or very similar equipment. What firearms do you possess riflemike  ?
Oh wait, I remember, you're advertising in the UKHTF EE for M16A1 and M4 SP1 bits. What on earth would a recreational sporting shooter want with such WMD military hardware...wannabe perhaps 
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Bugger…
All these 'mistakes' happen when I'm not around. One is reminded of the incident when West Midlands finest forgot to lock the back door of the van after a day at the range and a box of a dozen or so shooters dropped into the road in front of a somewhat surprised old boy following behind… Plod didn't even know they'd lost them until he handed them in at his local nick…
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5.56mm semi-automatic carbines with hi-cap magazines and options for optical sights 7.62mm sniper rifles (bolt and semi-auto options)with detachable magazines and telescopic sights 9mm semi-automatic pistols with hi-cap magazines Pump/semi-auto shotguns Wearing/carrying systems associated with all the above Bullet/stab resistant body armour Ballistic helmets Respirators Coveralls suitable for firearms use on extended operations Boots for the same etc. etc................. Let me have this 'non-military looking all the above stuff and more..'supplier's telephone number and I'll give them a bell..Seriously, if Chief Constables could have us looking totally unlike the military they would. Firstly.. In a society where according to the then home secretary "All HANDGUNS are off the streets" why do you and some of your colleges feel the need for all of that kit? surely a nice wooden stocked .243 with a fixed power 4X scope would cover every eventuality wouldn't it? maybe a lever action as I'm sure 10 rounds of .357 magnum is more than enough to handle any Brocock conversion wielding criminal ( was it 90% of firearms recovered being brococks or was it .9% I cant remember) why do you feel the need to have a 9mm pistol, bullet proof vest, smg, sniper rifle, assault rifle cs gas, pepper spray, tazer or the like, when all of these things are prohibited? why when asked do most police officers say we need these things to protect ourselves from violent armed offenders..... Yet I am not allowed to protect myself at all, unless you count using a mobile phone to call the police and ask them to come and help me, which could take a few F***ing hours! and as for your We need to look this way I give the following evidence.... Ireland where the average criminal is a current or ex terrorist, armed to the teeth with everything from a pistol to a gpmg and the odd rpg and kilo of plastic explosive in-between for good measure.... 
The average English, Scottish Or Welsh SAS Wannabe Armed response (or is it Tacticooll firearms unit?) Member 
As for your quote of.... "We have never been closer to the military than we are right now" Your right, lots of them have shot innocent civilians and got away with murder too.... 
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Bugger… All these 'mistakes' happen when I'm not around. One is reminded of the incident when West Midlands finest forgot to lock the back door of the van after a day at the range and a box of a dozen or so shooters dropped into the road in front of a somewhat surprised old boy following behind… Plod didn't even know they'd lost them until he handed them in at his local nick… Don't go there, you know full well who has the worst record for having firearms lost/mislaid/stolen as well as all other firearms mishaps..........
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5.56mm semi-automatic carbines with hi-cap magazines and options for optical sights 7.62mm sniper rifles (bolt and semi-auto options)with detachable magazines and telescopic sights 9mm semi-automatic pistols with hi-cap magazines Pump/semi-auto shotguns Wearing/carrying systems associated with all the above Bullet/stab resistant body armour Ballistic helmets Respirators Coveralls suitable for firearms use on extended operations Boots for the same etc. etc................. Let me have this 'non-military looking all the above stuff and more..'supplier's telephone number and I'll give them a bell..Seriously, if Chief Constables could have us looking totally unlike the military they would. Firstly.. In a society where according to the then home secretary "All HANDGUNS are off the streets" why do you and some of your colleges feel the need for all of that kit? surely a nice wooden stocked .243 with a fixed power 4X scope would cover every eventuality wouldn't it? maybe a lever action as I'm sure 10 rounds of .357 magnum is more than enough to handle any Brocock conversion wielding criminal ( was it 90% of firearms recovered being brococks or was it .9% I cant remember) why do you feel the need to have a 9mm pistol, bullet proof vest, smg, sniper rifle, assault rifle cs gas, pepper spray, tazer or the like, when all of these things are prohibited? why when asked do most police officers say we need these things to protect ourselves from violent armed offenders..... Yet I am not allowed to protect myself at all, unless you count using a mobile phone to call the police and ask them to come and help me, which could take a few F***ing hours! and as for your We need to look this way I give the following evidence.... Ireland where the average criminal is a current or ex terrorist, armed to the teeth with everything from a pistol to a gpmg and the odd rpg and kilo of plastic explosive in-between for good measure.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00782/belfast-police-chec_782157c.jpg The average English, Scottish Or Welsh SAS Wannabe Armed response (or is it Tacticooll firearms unit?) Member http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/images/29_arrest_gl.jpg As for your quote of.... "We have never been closer to the military than we are right now" Your right, lots of them have shot innocent civilians and got away with murder too....
You do yourself an injustice. You know as well as I do that the Home Secretary is a waste of space and a politician and therefore by definition a liar. It is beneath you to vent your frustration on the Police because they are charged with doing a task that you feel you could do yourself, and would like the opportunity to. You also know that the serious criminal, and terrorist has ready access to firearms, explosives and worse and yet you wish to deny the Police the means to do their job, just because you can't have the same what you see as 'toys'. Go tell your mummy, she might have more sympathy and get you some for christmas... And as for your Ireland and everywhere else comparison. Most of the time I look more like the Irish picture, except I don't routinely carry a carbine and NEVER as an AFO would I contemplate wearing a hi-viz jacket, and the only time I look even remotely like the lower picture is if I am out on a specific job, as that individual clearly is. Your suggestion that he is on a routine patrol dressed like that is simply ridiculous... 
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You do yourself an injustice. You know as well as I do that the Home Secretary is a waste of space and a politician and therefore by definition a liar. You'll never get that promotion calling your superiors (Did you not say that most ranks above sergeant are politicians?) liars! I have no problem with armed officers except that some of them, (entire police forces in some cases) are cowboys, leaving live ammo on cadet ranges or the odd gun at the side of the road... I personally know a few Armed officers, of which I wouldn't trust a single one with a toy gun never mind a real one! And I've told them that! the thing that does upset me about the "Police Service" as it has become is the lack of any common sense, I do not wish to go around and patrol the local area tooled up like an SAS wannabee, I'd just like some common sense, Like the good old days.... for example when my Mummy's shop was burgled and I went there to meet my friend the local beat bobby and his shiny new pc friend, and was told by said shiny new pc friend that I was going to be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon when I turned up with a 4d Maglite..... common sense applied and the new pc was told to F**k off and stop being so stupid by the local beat bobby..... By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one 
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Well...I think I touched a nerve there didn't I! Icarus, there was no personal insult intended at all. let me make that clear. I guessed there would be a couple of armed response officers in the forum though!
I did not intend to suggest that in the world we live in today we do not need firearms trained officers or the necessary tools of the job. I am also happy that there are many many armed officers out there who to a great job protecting the public. What I do have an issue with is the image they sometimes seem to enjoy projecting. I could be wrong too but I also get the impression that armed officers sometimes think they are a cut above the average bobby. I hesitate to use the word elite! I have even met a couple of private shooting policemen in the past who have had less than flattering things to say about their armed response colleagues. Chief Constables seem intent on making their officers look as intimidating as possible in the hope that the public will feel protected! Window dressing! The photos that you attached show Dutch and German police responding to an incident of some kind or perhaps in training. I am worried by the deployment of excessive amounts of military equipment on routine patrol. In the US where their police and other agencies are necessarily well equipped, they all carry handguns and one doesn't even notice them carrying! They all have AR15s and shotguns and other serious kit in their vehicles of course. They don't strut around with them on public display all the time. As for me....I am interested in all classic firearms. My collection range starts in the mid 1800s and stops at the AR 15, say 1959. My collection is entirely legal and I am very careful about that. On some occasions I even shoot them! My interest in the A1 rifle in particular in no way makes me a military wannabe. I do not wear camoflague at the range either. A lot of shooters are ex forces in some capacity and have a natural interest in military equipment. Are they to be described as military wannabes? I am sure there will be further discussion on the subject. Am relatively new to this posting lark. It seems I am interact with a few interesting people! Mike |
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"By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one"
Apparently they do door to door deliveries now too...... 
I think their kit should all be pink. Then we'll know they're the cute fluffy bunny good guys .... I do find it deeply disturbing when they show up in balaclavas though. I can't see any valid reason for it and it sends out the wrong message. Apparently ( and I may be wrong)it's to so they can still work undercover( but what are undercover officers doing on an armed response team)..... or is it so they can't be individually identified by witnesses when the team does a de Menezes .... Should be a no balaclavas policy.... |
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You do yourself an injustice. You know as well as I do that the Home Secretary is a waste of space and a politician and therefore by definition a liar. You'll never get that promotion  I jumped off that bandwagon years ago. I have been told that I have too much integrity for senior rank......calling your superiors (Did you not say that most ranks above sergeant are politicians?) liars! Too late  , it's what got me where I am today..
I have no problem with armed officers except that some of them, (entire police forces in some cases) are cowboys, leaving live ammo on cadet ranges or the odd gun at the side of the road... I agree. I also accept that there are cowboys in any organisation (a term I use very loosely here). I also accept that individuals are also capable of cowboy behaviour. It is human nature.. I personally know a few Armed officers, of which I wouldn't trust a single one with a toy gun never mind a real one! And I've told them that! ..and I'm sure they love you too. the thing that does upset me about the "Police Service" as it has become is the lack of any common sense, Common sense has been discontinued as a practice out-dated and out of step with political aspirations..It will however be repeatedley referred to as what should have been used following screw-ups that everyone else saw coming I do not wish to go around and patrol the local area tooled up like an SAS wannabee, I'd just like some common sense, See above Like the good old days.... for example when my Mummy's shop was burgled and I went there to meet my friend the local beat bobby and his shiny new pc friend, and was told by said shiny new pc friend that I was going to be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon when I turned up with a 4d Maglite..... common sense applied and the new pc was told to F**k off and stop being so stupid by the local beat bobby..... There you go, it's not completely dead in your Force area, until that bobby retires anyway..
By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one ....you're getting mixed up with the Army now
Well if you want to become an armed police groupie you're bound to have the opportunity to pick one up sooner or later, or you could just hang around the toilets at Starbucks, but your best bet would just be to join the military and they'll give you one of your own...
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Hey Mark,
I wasn't backing down really. And it is also interesting to hear Icarus's replies. He has valid points to make and I am sure he does a good job. I don't believe though that the senior ranks in the police would rather have equipment without a military appearance. As we all know, senior police officers are primarily concerned about politics, targets, playing to the press and being seen to respond to terrorism. British police forces do though have something of an image problem with respect to firearms. This hasn't been helped by some of the recent high profile errors they have made. I am really uncomfortable with apparent elitism in this area too. Perhaps it is time to separate high profile paramilitary policing from more routine policing like the French have. The police deserve our respect because thay are serving us. Not because they have a weapon. Isn't internet debating fun!!! Maybe I have a few lessons to learn here but I am anxious to be fair and reasonable with my points! I look forward to meeting you and the others in the forum on the range some day soon. We all have a common interest.... There aren't that many of us and our backs are against the wall! Mike |
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I personally know a few Armed officers, of which I wouldn't trust a single one with a toy gun never mind a real one! And I've told them that! ..and I'm sure they love you too. Two of them certainly do.. the first one after I put his Glock back together for him, the second one when I handed him the 97 rounds of hollow point 9mm he'd left on the floor of a cadet range "Practising" Stoppage drills By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one ....you're getting mixed up with the Army now
No I think the police are guilty of losing and occasionally Selling the odd Gun too... Bent Copper sells Gats... |
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Hey Mark, I wasn't backing down really. And it is also interesting to hear Icarus's replies. He has valid points to make and I am sure he does a good job. I don't believe though that the senior ranks in the police would rather have equipment without a military appearance. As we all know, senior police officers are primarily concerned about politics, targets, playing to the press and being seen to respond to terrorism. British police forces Services do though have something of an image problem with respect to firearms. This hasn't been helped by some of the recent high profile errors they have made. I am really uncomfortable with apparent elitism in this area too. Perhaps it is time to separate high profile paramilitary policing from more routine policing like the French have. The police deserve our respect because thay are serving us. Not because they have a weapon. Isn't internet debating fun!!! Maybe I have a few lessons to learn here but I am anxious to be fair and reasonable with my points! I look forward to meeting you and the others in the forum on the range some day soon. We all have a common interest.... There aren't that many of us and our backs are against the wall! Mike |
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Hey Mark, I wasn't backing down really. And it is also interesting to hear Icarus's replies. He has valid points to make and I am sure he does a good job. I don't believe though that the senior ranks in the police would rather have equipment without a military appearance. As we all know, senior police officers are primarily concerned about politics, targets, playing to the press and being seen to respond to terrorism. British police forces do though have something of an image problem with respect to firearms. This hasn't been helped by some of the recent high profile errors they have made. I am really uncomfortable with apparent elitism in this area too. Perhaps it is time to separate high profile paramilitary policing from more routine policing like the French have. So.... if UK police forces were to establish well trained and equipped armed (or paramilitary, depending on your point of view) sections would that meet with your approval? Or would that section become an elite by virtue of training, equipping and expected role, and thus make you feel uncomfortable??? The French CRS are, I believe, drawn from the national traffic force because, like most countries, they can't afford full time armed response sections who go into action relatively infrequently. The police deserve our respect because thay are serving us. Not because they have a weapon. Very, very, true. They are a long way from perfect, they can be lions led by donkeys in too many cases, they are human, drawn from our society and will at times get it wrong just like everyone else does. Isn't internet debating fun!!! Maybe I have a few lessons to learn here but I am anxious to be fair and reasonable with my points! I look forward to meeting you and the others in the forum on the range some day soon. We all have a common interest.... There aren't that many of us and our backs are against the wall! Mike |
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Well...I think I touched a nerve there didn't I! Icarus, there was no personal insult intended at all. let me make that clear. I guessed there would be a couple of armed response officers in the forum though! No not a nerve just a well worn thread of misconception..again 
I did not intend to suggest that in the world we live in today we do not need firearms trained officers or the necessary tools of the job. I am also happy that there are many many armed officers out there who to a great job protecting the public. What I do have an issue with is the image they sometimes seem to enjoy projecting. I don't know where you have seen them enjoying their image but of course it's possible, human nature again. Or is it you resenting the image, or the reminder that you live in an unsafe society. Is it wrong to be proud of what you you, would you rather they kept apologising for being armed. There are doubtless those who are over the top. I have seen it myself but I would hazard a guess that they are on the whole the younger element. Exuberance of youth and all that. Any of my lot caught 'giving it large' as a colleague of mine puts it, gets short shrift and repeated offences are a sure ticket off the department. I certainly recall when I was a budding Naval aviator, operating out of a civilian airport departure lounge we made no attempt to hide our flying kit and aircrew status. We were proud of what we did, and it got us laid. A lot...Not that a serving police officer would do such a thing of course. I could be wrong too but I also get the impression that armed officers sometimes think they are a cut above the average bobby. I hesitate to use the word elite! I have even met a couple of private shooting policemen in the past who have had less than flattering things to say about their armed response colleagues. You should speak as you find, but form your own opinion based on experience, not just spout off the views of others. Most of my colleagues play down their role, as we can do without the ensuing barrage of inane questions and ill-conceived comments. As for the inter-police opinion, no surprise there. Beat Officers will slag off Armed who will slag off Traffic who will slag of CID, etc., etc. A considerable number of police officers who are not AFO's are shooters and their opinions will vary, some depending on whether they failed their AFO Course...........Chief Constables seem intent on making their officers look as intimidating as possible in the hope that the public will feel protected! Window dressing! The photos that you attached show Dutch and German police responding to an incident of some kind or perhaps in training. I am worried by the deployment of excessive amounts of military equipment on routine patrol. In the US where their police and other agencies are necessarily well equipped, they all carry handguns and one doesn't even notice them carrying! They all have AR15s and shotguns and other serious kit in their vehicles of course. They don't strut around with them on public display all the time. My point exactly, those pictures clearly relate to specialist officer deployed on specific incidents, hardly routine patrol. Most of the time I carry only a handgun and otherwise look virtually identical to any beat bobby stood next to me. It's usually the kids that notice the gun first.. As for me....I am interested in all classic firearms. My collection range starts in the mid 1800s and stops at the AR 15, say 1959. My collection is entirely legal and I am very careful about that. On some occasions I even shoot them! My interest in the A1 rifle in particular in no way makes me a military wannabe. I do not wear camoflague at the range either. A lot of shooters are ex forces in some capacity and have a natural interest in military equipment. Are they to be described as military wannabes? My point again. I have two AR's, and a T4 set up like a sniper rifle because they are the best suited guns available for the target disciplines I shoot (which are incidentally based on military courses of fire. Does that make me a SAS/military wannabe, like the vast majority of posters on here-YOU decide)
I am sure there will be further discussion on the subject. Am relatively new to this posting lark. It seems I am interact with a few interesting people! Mike |
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"By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one" Apparently they do door to door deliveries now too...... 
I think their kit should all be pink. Then we'll know they're the cute fluffy bunny good guys .... I do find it deeply disturbing when they show up in balaclavas though. I can't see any valid reason for it and it sends out the wrong message. Apparently ( and I may be wrong)it's to so they can still work undercover( but what are undercover officers doing on an armed response team)..... or is it so they can't be individually identified by witnesses when the team does a de Menezes .... Should be a no balaclavas policy.... Some do undercover work and have retained firearms skills. Some do armed surveillance. Some forces care enough about their officers that following the usual blaze of publicity and media hysteria (bit like on here really) of a major firearms incident, they recognise that it can be difficult for officers if they keep getting recognised out in public, even if they have done nothing wrong and acted correctly. The media and sadly a lot of the public, can't tell the difference anyway.. |
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Hey Mark, I wasn't backing down really. And it is also interesting to hear Icarus's replies. He has valid points to make and I am sure he does a good job. I don't believe though that the senior ranks in the police would rather have equipment without a military appearance. As we all know, senior police officers are primarily concerned about politics, targets, playing to the press and being seen to respond to terrorism. British police forces do though have something of an image problem with respect to firearms. This hasn't been helped by some of the recent high profile errors they have made. I am really uncomfortable with apparent elitism in this area too. Perhaps it is time to separate high profile paramilitary policing from more routine policing like the French have. Your wish has been granted, more PCSO's than ever before. Now I'm off to my elitist ivory tower where I can look down upon the peasantry and decide if they are worthy of my service....... The police deserve our respect because thay are serving us. Not because they have a weapon.
Isn't internet debating fun!!! Maybe I have a few lessons to learn here but I am anxious to be fair and reasonable with my points! I look forward to meeting you and the others in the forum on the range some day soon. We all have a common interest.... There aren't that many of us and our backs are against the wall! Mike |
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I personally know a few Armed officers, of which I wouldn't trust a single one with a toy gun never mind a real one! And I've told them that! ..and I'm sure they love you too. Two of them certainly do.. the first one after I put his Glock back together for him, the second one when I handed him the 97 rounds of hollow point 9mm he'd left on the floor of a cadet range "Practising" Stoppage drills By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one ....you're getting mixed up with the Army now
No I think the police are guilty of losing and occasionally Selling the odd Gun too... Bent Copper sells Gats... Wow! I stand corrected, what a dickhead!
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Hey Mark, I wasn't backing down really. And it is also interesting to hear Icarus's replies. He has valid points to make and I am sure he does a good job. I don't believe though that the senior ranks in the police would rather have equipment without a military appearance. As we all know, senior police officers are primarily concerned about politics, targets, playing to the press and being seen to respond to terrorism. British police forces Services do though have something of an image problem with respect to firearms. This hasn't been helped by some of the recent high profile errors they have made. I am really uncomfortable with apparent elitism in this area too. Perhaps it is time to separate high profile paramilitary policing from more routine policing like the French have. The police deserve our respect because thay are serving us. Not because they have a weapon. Isn't internet debating fun!!! Maybe I have a few lessons to learn here but I am anxious to be fair and reasonable with my points! I look forward to meeting you and the others in the forum on the range some day soon. We all have a common interest.... There aren't that many of us and our backs are against the wall! Mike ...and therein lies the whole problem....not so much the word itself, but the interpretation of it..
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I personally know a few Armed officers, of which I wouldn't trust a single one with a toy gun never mind a real one! And I've told them that! ..and I'm sure they love you too. Two of them certainly do.. the first one after I put his Glock back together for him, the second one when I handed him the 97 rounds of hollow point 9mm he'd left on the floor of a cadet range "Practising" Stoppage drills By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one ....you're getting mixed up with the Army now
No I think the police are guilty of losing and occasionally Selling the odd Gun too... Bent Copper sells Gats... A complete tosser who deserved whatever came his way, I imagine that the error of his ways was explained at length once "inside". This is however an old story, 19 Jun 2001 and concerned a pistol confiscated after Dunblane, so it's a pretty infrequent occurence if that's the most recent to be found. |
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I guess there will always be a bit of them and us. As members of the public we have a right to express a concern or two. The ACPO mob haven't found a way to stop us having our own opinions..... yet at least.
The whole PCSO thing is another argument that worries the rank and file that will run and run. Maybe they should be better equipped too. What about our paramilitary traffic wardens and council parking inspectors, even the RSPCA inspectors...we could go on..... Who knows, when they are all suitably equipped, maybe they could forget about their image and find some time to catch a few real criminals! Nothing wrong with a bit of pride in what you do though. Mike |
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A complete tosser who deserved whatever came his way, I imagine that the error of his ways was explained at length once "inside". This is however an old story, 19 Jun 2001 and concerned a pistol confiscated after Dunblane, so it's a pretty infrequent occurence if that's the most recent to be found. That's just one that I personally Knew about, I'm sure in today's Police service it would never happen,
If anyone has seen Ross Kemp on gangs though, when every gang is asked the question where do you get your guns from lots of them seem to to answer "the police" |
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I guess there will always be a bit of them and us. As members of the public we have a right to express a concern or two. The ACPO mob haven't found a way to stop us having our own opinions..... yet at least. The whole PCSO thing is another argument that worries the rank and file that will run and run. Maybe they should be better equipped too. What about our paramilitary traffic wardens and council parking inspectors, even the RSPCA inspectors...we could go on..... Who knows, when they are all suitably equipped, maybe they could forget about their image and find some time to catch a few real criminals! Nothing wrong with a bit of pride in what you do though. Mike As a rule, RSPCA inspectors should all be EX Military and should be issued with Ruger suppressed pistols for the in-humane destruction of animal mistreating scum.... |
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I guess there will always be a bit of them and us. I'm sure you're right, but there shouldn't be. I sit here now as a member of the public who happens to be a police officer for a living. I live in the community that I police..As members of the public we have a right to express a concern or two. Certainly, but base it on fact not supposition and media hype..The ACPO mob haven't found a way to stop us having our own opinions..... yet at least. The whole PCSO thing is another argument that worries the rank and file that will run and run. Maybe they should be better equipped too. Thing with PCSO's is that they are meant to be close to the community doing stuff that regulars don't seem to find time for, but they inevitably come up against what the Police were dealing with when they were more available to the community at large and so they need the same training and equipment, so they then become in effect police officers. Stupid thing is they are currently less capable through no training, not sworn officers so no lawful powers (other than those of every other citizen), don't work nights and are in fact far more expensive. A shiny new PC gets 22k a year and is available 24/7 and can be widely abused by the organisation. A PCSO doesn't work after 2200hrs and gets 26k a year and is able to do far less. You figure it out. Doesn't mean they are bad people, it was just doomed to failure from the start.What about our paramilitary traffic wardens and council parking inspectors, even the RSPCA inspectors...we could go on..... Who knows, when they are all suitably equipped, maybe they could forget about their image and find some time to catch a few real criminals! Nothing wrong with a bit of pride in what you do though. Mike |
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A complete tosser who deserved whatever came his way, I imagine that the error of his ways was explained at length once "inside". This is however an old story, 19 Jun 2001 and concerned a pistol confiscated after Dunblane, so it's a pretty infrequent occurence if that's the most recent to be found. That's just one that I personally Knew about, I'm sure in today's Police service it would never happen,
If anyone has seen Ross Kemp on gangs though, when every gang is asked the question where do you get your guns from lots of them seem to to answer "the police" I once hosted a visiting policing minister from South Africa. He was talking about how his officers kept 'losing' or were being 'robbed' of their police issue firearms. I ponted out that if their pay and working conditiond were better then perhaps they wouldn't lose or get robbed quite so much...
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I personally know a few Armed officers, of which I wouldn't trust a single one with a toy gun never mind a real one! And I've told them that! ..and I'm sure they love you too. Two of them certainly do.. the first one after I put his Glock back together for him, the second one when I handed him the 97 rounds of hollow point 9mm he'd left on the floor of a cadet range "Practising" Stoppage drills By the way I've just got off the phone with mummy, she says that if I want a machine gun for Christmas I should ask a policeman, they'll either lose one accidentally that I can pick up or just plain sell me one ....you're getting mixed up with the Army now
No I think the police are guilty of losing and occasionally Selling the odd Gun too... Bent Copper sells Gats... Wow! I stand corrected, what a dickhead!
A Sgt from Dagenham is/did time for selling on gats handed in during firearms amnesties… sold quite a few IIRC. |
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I agree with you there. The PCSO's must be having an interesting time integrating with a mother organisation that doesn't want them. As you say good people but doomed to failure. Somebody needs to look at those pay scales too.
It seems that the whole thing is the result of politicians trying to be policemen and senoir policemen trying to be politicians. It would be much better if they would just stick to their own jobs. Politicians actually doing what we elected them to do and Chief Constables going after real criminals and not chasing easy targets! I think we are probably done with this discussion for now. It has been an interesting one... We have plenty of common ground I am sure! Mike |
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And as for your Ireland and everywhere else comparison. Most of the time I look more like the Irish picture, except I don't routinely carry a carbine and NEVER as an AFO would I contemplate wearing a hi-viz jacket, and the only time I look even remotely like the lower picture is if I am out on a specific job, as that individual clearly is. Your suggestion that he is on a routine patrol dressed like that is simply ridiculous...
Maybe the reason that some armed coppers in NI wear hi-viz jackets is beacause they're all armed -it's just a normal thing - and if they're controlling traffic then they will have a gat and need for a high-viz jacket. However, the RUC always had various other gangs who didn't wear high viz kit and lots of exciting stuff - but, they managed to avoid looking like extras from "Ultimate Force". I guess it's all about just getting on with the job when there was a daily threat rather than hanging about airports. On the mainland, it's unusual to be armed, and so the armed coppers pose it up something rotten at places like airports, because they're the only ones with weapons. If they all had them, it would be nothing special and they would soon forget about the posing and just get on with the rest of the job like coppers in NI, and almost every other country around the world. I always get very nervous around armed mainland coppers - the number of unarmed people shot by NDs (or UDs or even deliberately) far exceeds actual armed criminals - but I imagine it's just as worrying for the other coppers - the blue-on-blue rate seems surprisingly high of late... Still, I'm sure they're all super blokes and just hate ordering people around
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Icarus - yet again, I find myself admiring your articulation - well said.
This debate reminds me of the people in this country who constantly criticise many of the things they see as wrong with the UK but fail to compare it with the rest of the world. The fact remains that the British Police Services are probably THE most restrained law enforcement in the world. To any person who feels they are anything less than professional and restrained ( the vast majority ) I can point them in the direction of several countries where they might want to live instead of the UK and experience another type of policing. As to the "wannabe" reference - pathetic coming from members of a forum dedicated to an assault rifle !! Before you criticise the Police choice of equipment, take a long hard look at yourselves. Look at the rifles you like. Look at the photos of a pratical rifle match on another thread here with shooters dressed head to toe in DPM. And shooting AR15 type rifles. And if any of you feel you can do the job of law enforcement better than its current staff - well, there is an old Irish saying "Either shit, or get off the pot" - go and join the Special Constabulary for your area. Its like a police version of the TA. You can do a few days a month in uniform, on patrol and fighting crime. You are a part time officer with all the powers of arrest etc and paid expenses etc You can then show all the inefficient officers how you can do it better. But I bet not one of you will. Easier to criticise than it it is to actually show you CAN do the job better.
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I rarely have to order anyone around, I get by on my charm and wit. The last person I 'ordered' to do anything was an armed criminal......
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And as for your Ireland and everywhere else comparison. Most of the time I look more like the Irish picture, except I don't routinely carry a carbine and NEVER as an AFO would I contemplate wearing a hi-viz jacket, and the only time I look even remotely like the lower picture is if I am out on a specific job, as that individual clearly is. Your suggestion that he is on a routine patrol dressed like that is simply ridiculous...
Maybe the reason that some armed coppers in NI wear hi-viz jackets is beacause they're all armed -it's just a normal thing - and if they're controlling traffic then they will have a gat and need for a high-viz jacket. However, the RUC always had various other gangs who didn't wear high viz kit and lots of exciting stuff - but, they managed to avoid looking like extras from "Ultimate Force". I guess it's all about just getting on with the job when there was a daily threat rather than hanging about airports. On the mainland, it's unusual to be armed, and so the armed coppers pose it up something rotten at places like airports, because they're the only ones with weapons. Or maybe they are supposed to be a visible deterrentIf they all had them, it would be nothing special and they would soon forget about the posing and just get on with the rest of the job like coppers in NI, and almost every other country around the world. I always get very nervous around armed mainland coppers - the number of unarmed people shot by NDs The last two ND's I was present at happened on a Practical Rifle comp. where members of this esteemed board were also present..(or UDs or even deliberately) far exceeds actual armed criminals - but I imagine it's just as worrying for the other coppers - the blue-on-blue rate seems surprisingly high of late... Still, I'm sure they're all super blokes and just hate ordering people around |
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As to the "wannabe" reference - pathetic coming from members of a forum dedicated to an assault rifle !! Before you criticise the Police choice of equipment, take a long hard look at yourselves. Look at the rifles you like. Look at the photos of a pratical rifle match on another thread here with shooters dressed head to toe in DPM. And shooting AR15 type rifles.] You know, when you talk like that, your ingrained resentment of us 'little people' having gats shines through loud and clear. I've already taken you to task for a recent rant of yours that was almost word for word the shiite the GCN used to get handguns banned… You've made your position loud and clear, just like the GCN and most senior Plods I strongly suspect you think the 'little people' should only be allowed single shot .22's and double barelled shotguns. |
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And as for your Ireland and everywhere else comparison. Most of the time I look more like the Irish picture, except I don't routinely carry a carbine and NEVER as an AFO would I contemplate wearing a hi-viz jacket, and the only time I look even remotely like the lower picture is if I am out on a specific job, as that individual clearly is. Your suggestion that he is on a routine patrol dressed like that is simply ridiculous...
Maybe the reason that some armed coppers in NI wear hi-viz jackets is beacause they're all armed -it's just a normal thingg - and if they're controlling traffic then they will have a gat and need for a high-viz jacket. However, the RUC always had various other gangs who didn't wear high viz kit and lots of exciting stuff - but, they managed to avoid looking like extras from "Ultimate Force". I guess it's all about just getting on with the job when there was a daily threat rather than hanging about airports. On the mainland, it's unusual to be armed, and so the armed coppers pose it up something rotten at places like airports, because they're the only ones with weapons. If they all had them, it would be nothing special and they would soon forget about the posing and just get on with the rest of the job like coppers in NI, and almost every other country around the world. I always get very nervous around armed mainland coppers - the number of unarmed people shot by NDs (or UDs or even deliberately) far exceeds actual armed criminals - but I imagine it's just as worrying for the other coppers - the blue-on-blue rate seems surprisingly high of late... Still, I'm sure they're all super blokes and just hate ordering people around Yes…… Oh snap! Hmmmm… do ANY of these 'armed officers' fill me with confidence with their weapons handling? 
You make a very valid point… Compare MoDPol with CivPol MoDPol - are all armed as a matter of course and don't go in for 'hey look at me! I've got a shooter' hairstyles and attitudes… CivPol - Far too often you get the impression that either the Officer is scared shitless because he's got a gat, or is stoked with a 'w00t! check out my gat' attitude. |