[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .22 AR15 Help (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/2/2008 4:41:56 AM EDT
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Hi, Please can you help me. I'm looking to buy a .22 AR15 style rifle and have found numerous mixed reports regarding reliability and inability to cycle subsonics. Please can you advise, in your opinion, which are the best makes in terms of reliability, accuracy and looks (I quite like M4 Carbine style) and price. I'm told the Nordic AR22 with ruger action is one of the most reliable but I'm not sure if it looks quite right. Perhaps it the magazine? Southern Gun Company really does look the business, especially the military version, but I've heard there is a huge waiting list and they are expensive. Do you know of any second hand .22 AR15’s that are available? Your experienced opinion is greatly appreciated. Regards, Darren Winnard |
Hi Darren welcome aboard  The .22 on offer from SGC uses a V22 upper from CZ. To be honest, they're not the best thing available but for the money hard to beat. If you think they're expensive then some of the others will scare the living daylights out of you. There aren't really that many choices and whatever you do, you will have to be prepared to carry out a substantial raid on your piggy bank!! Used Bremmer .22's are always a good purchase and at times can be had very reasonably. But there is no M4 model available and if you get one and want it modified it will cost quite a bit to do. NWCP are selling the TacSol range and seem to be reasonably priced, but you're still looking at around £750 or so for a base model. I do my own .22 build based around a modified Ceiner kit but that will cost you even more though. Occasionaly other models appear on the market so either save your money and buy new or keep your eyes peeled for a good second hand one Mark |
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There have been a few on Airgun BBs recently: www.airgunbbs.com/forums/index.php the sales section there is excellent and worth keeping an eye on. Guntrader is also worth watching, there is at least one V22 on there at the moment but it's not cheap: www.guntrader.co.uk/ As Mark points out a major piggy bank raid will be needed but a proper .22 AR is far more satisfying then a blinged up Ruger 10-22, which can be surprisingly expensive at the end of the day. There is a rimfire forum on this site: www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=15 where a lot of good information can be found. Good luck and welcome aboard. Martin |
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Thanks for the very warm welcome as well as your help.hink I saw the V22 on Gun Trader but I was hoping to find a second hande one that might have a few spares thrown in. Like maybe a modified SA80 to house the .22 mag. They just seem so expensive.....but I just love how they look.....and people tell me that can be quite finiky (if thats a word) and not that reliably.....but I just love the way they look. Head says go for the Ruger but heart says AR and in this case looks count just as much. Does any one know about someone who wants to sell their .22 AR15 ? |
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Personally I don't consider the Nordic approach (basically housing a Ruger action in a box that accepts AR type accessories) an AR at all. If it doesn't use AR based upper and lower receivers, it's not an AR imho. The Bremmers have a good reputation but the ones that are similar, ie Ceiner based conversion kits, seem to vary a lot, although they look more authentic, even though it's only cosmetic. If you go for one of these I would be looking for an undertaking from the supplier that it is functioning reliably before you buy. Try it yourself if at all possible. I have owned a CZ V22 for over five years now and it functions very well. It took a little wearing in from new and would initially only cycle high velocity rounds. After a couple of thousand it cycled subsonics too  . It snapped the original firing pin at @2500-3000rnds. The replacement is still going strong at around 6500-7000rnds (touches wood and crosses fingers). The only other issue I ever had with this gun were crap ammo and crap magazine related. Now that BDM mags are available and I buy decent ammo I have few worries............................There has recently been an explosion of Tac Sol .22 Ar's in the UK via NWCP but I have seen few reviews. Come on chaps, someone must have something to say about their new toys......  Welcome btw.. |
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Spike's Tactical is great. You can read more about them here. Video |
Mine is still going well - only 160 rounds through it so far though. To start with I had a couple of problems chambering the first round from a magazine, but cured that by being more positive in the cocking action... No failures to fire or eject. And accuracy is looking v promising, so much so that I'm planning to ditch the irons and plonk a scope on to get the most from it. |
That's because you have to file down the hook on the charging handle latch. TacSol should've taken care of that at the factory |
Most of these .22 kits work just fine but generally the recoil springs are marginal at best at overcoming the resistance of the charging handle latch spring. It's a reliability thing and doesn't take more than a few minutes to do, or put another way, one of the actions to carry out to ensure fewer future problems Mark |
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Bremmer for the win… Best quality, end of. (even better when you let some bodger fiddle with it) You can get original 'M4' carbine Bremmers, look out for CAR-15 as against SAR-15. They are rare and pretty expensive. £2-300 premium over a 20" SAR-15 seems to be the going rate. |
They're 16" and are A2 receivered as opposed to flat tops. To convert a 20" A2 to "M4" styling can cost up to £300-350 or so. |
Nothing wrong with A2's…  And what's a couple of inches between friends. 
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Didn't the original M4 have an A2 receiver? |
No that was the M4A2 but there never was an official rifle of this designation |
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welcome aboard dyna494 i have a v22 from SGC. the common problem is extractor not doing its job (extracting). but apart from that no problems. runs well on mini mag hv. shooting 96 and 97 at the moment and it's great fun on practical's too. i ordered mine with the ten round mag then ordered a couple of Black Dog Mags and a Magpul CTR stock from a well respected moderator with funny hairhe good luck bullet tooth |
| Fantastic responce and brilliant info. Many thanks everyone here |
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Went to NWCP yesterday. Put a deposit down on a new one. he I'm getting a Sabre Defence lower with .22 M4 upper. houldn Plus you get a warrantee on a new gun. NWCP was really well stocked with loads of extras which is really good, unless you end up like a kid in a sweet shop and spend an extra £300 on goodies. But what the hell, in for a penny...He |
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Hi Darren welcome aboard
I do my own .22 build based around a modified Ceiner kit but that will cost you even more though. Mark Mark, What barrel do you use on your model of .22rf What are the advantages of the modified ceiner approach ? Have you seen one of the fully suppressed TacSol uppers ? Anybody else here seen one ? Any photos ? Is full suppression an option on your model ? |
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Mark, What barrel do you use on your model of .22rf What are the advantages of the modified ceiner approach ? Have you seen one of the fully suppressed TacSol uppers ? Anybody else here seen one ? Any photos ? Is full suppression an option on your model ? 1) Douglas 2) Compared to what? 3) Not familiar with them. See Chefie 4) If you really want |
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2) Compared to what? Compared to the system used / design of the other .22rf uppers on the market. As far as I am aware they are all variations(ie different quality build) on the Atchisson/Ciener conversion kit with the exception of the CZ V22 which is a proper blow back bolt group.......... |
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2) Compared to what? Compared to the system used / design of the other .22rf uppers on the market. Aah OK, Well, there's raally only two versions on the market. The Ceiner based conversions and the V22. Ther V22's really aren't that great. If it's a working gun, that's fine. What more could you ask for? They aren't true to the AR15 design as they use a proprietry upper receiver and a carrie mounted cocking handle. This bothers some people but not me. If it works then it's good. But they are crude. Remember they were made to the lowest price possible, and it shows. The chambers are rather on the generous side also. Regarding Ceiners, there are several options. The Ceiner kit itself. Tacsol's version and Spikes Tactical's, although I believe that is only a version of Model1 Sales kit but they are all variations on the same theme. I have no experience of the others, or the quality of their barrels etc so can only speak for myself. The ones I do are limited in number based on the amount of kits I can lay my hands on. They are considerably more expensive than the others, but I still have no trouble selling them! People want .22 AR's Again, it was Derrick that started this whole thing off and it is a very good design, although with the amount of machining involved, somewhat pricey. I buy in the machined barrels and then finish them off and mod the kits and each one is then hand built and tested as I don't need people coming back and complaining that it doesn't work. At the end of the day, they can be had with match or sporter chambers and don't leave until they fire 200rds without any malfunctions. It must be said that with the arrival of Black Dog mage, all these systems have become more viable Mark |
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2) Compared to what? Compared to the system used / design of the other .22rf uppers on the market. As far as I am aware they are all variations(ie different quality build) on the Atchisson/Ciener conversion kit with the exception of the CZ V22 which is a proper blow back bolt group.......... Ceiner's are blowback |
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2) Compared to what? Compared to the system used / design of the other .22rf uppers on the market. As far as I am aware they are all variations(ie different quality build) on the Atchisson/Ciener conversion kit with the exception of the CZ V22 which is a proper blow back bolt group.......... Ceiner's are blowback True, they are all blowback in operation. What I meant was the V22 was a dedicated design whereas the Ciener conversion is , well........[img='middle']http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif[/img] ..whilst fairly crude in construction, ie cast and machined/drilled bolt, they work well. I have often wondered whether it would be worth polishing up the bolt and cleaning it up a bit but it probably wouldn't make any difference to the function. While blasphemous, I actually prefer the side cocking as it's far quicker and more efficient as you don't have to break your head position when reloading and cocking from empty, as you do with a conventional 'T' charging handle. Mine has a Douglas match barrel and is very accurate with decent ammunition. |
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Mine has a Douglas match barrel and is very accurate with decent ammunition. Was the Douglas barrel installed as an option when supplied new or a retro fit? Did you go for this due to major dissatisfaction with the standard barrel or just to improve on it? |
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Mine has a Douglas match barrel and is very accurate with decent ammunition. Was the Douglas barrel installed as an option when supplied new or a retro fit? Did you go for this due to major dissatisfaction with the standard barrel or just to improve on it? Nope, fitted as standard from new. I just tried to send you a mega email but it wouldn't go..................[img='middle']http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_banghead.gif[/img] ..you have been rejected by my server 
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Yes, the bremmer, uses a real ar15 upper and a nearly real (missing a hole if I'm not mistaken but this can be rectified by gun-plumbing) Lower receiver...... So all accessories will fit, It's the upper that's missing a hole. You don't need it for accessories so no plumbing required. |
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Yes, the bremmer, uses a real ar15 upper and a nearly real (missing a hole if I'm not mistaken but this can be rectified by gun-plumbing) Lower receiver...... So all accessories will fit, It's the upper that's missing a hole. You don't need it for accessories so no plumbing required. You're talking about the gas tube hole. UKGUY's talking about the buffer retainer hole. Not necessary on a .22 but beneficial if you wish to use that lower for fullbore later |
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I think its important to note that the Nordic AR22 is not and never intended to be an AR type gun - the reason Tim Ubl from JP rifles designed it was that people who use JP rifles in competition wanted a JP compatible set up to use using .22 ammo so instead to designing a Ceiner style kit they simply designed a Ruger 10/22 add on that would exactly replicate the JP feel and balance and allow JP users (and other AR owners) the balance and same ergonomics as a JP for up close practice.
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I think its important to note that the Nordic AR22 is not and never intended to be an AR type gun - the reason Tim Ubl from JP rifles designed it was that people who use JP rifles in competition wanted a JP compatible set up to use using .22 ammo so instead to designing a Ceiner style kit they simply designed a Ruger 10/22 add on that would exactly replicate the JP feel and balance and allow JP users (and other AR owners) the balance and same ergonomics as a JP for up close practice. Just visited the site - not sure I like the Nordic thing either. But the full bore stuff looks very nice !! |
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I think they look gash  I would agree… http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/CTRScheels1aFinal_556.jpg Yuck… Yes, it's horrible, send it to me so I can hide it..................
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I think they look gash I would agree… http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/CTRScheels1aFinal_556.jpg Yuck… Looks OK to me......whats up with it? Looks a bit Southern Gun to me if anything. |
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I think they look gash I would agree… http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/CTRScheels1aFinal_556.jpg Yuck… Looks OK to me......whats up with it? Looks a bit Southern Gun to me if anything. Does a .223 rifle really need a barrel and muzzle brake that wouldn't look out of place on a Barret Light 50? |