[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Where to start (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/26/2008 1:25:25 PM EDT
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10 years.. its been a long time since I gave up my FAC and pistols.. Been busting clays since then, but last year got to see a bit of FB rifle up close at Bisley one day. A bit more investigation turned up Gallery rifle, and LB Pistol... OK that decided it, I re-joined the NRA (Bisley is also local to me to use as a Club), passed the probationary period and now have full membership again he A .22 goes without saying (also got access to 40 acres of farm, so a moderator also required). A gallery Rifle too.. I've always been a fan of the AR15 and the SGC .30 lever action 'looks' great, but reading around here and elsewhere, I'm not convinced that I'd ever actually get one delivered having paid my money! And for CSR / Practical (which was what originally got my interest), again its got to be an AR I think, but who's? I'm not even sure who other than SGC and ar15.co.uk produced a straight pull for the UK... Any thoughts/ advice gladly received... looking forward to getting back in to this sport. Cheers. |
Welcome to the club Mines a pint of black sheep!!! We have own Some say he has the body of a leprachaun, the trigger finger of a tree frog, and an ability to absorb cash by osmosis.... We just call him Streetfighter  .....He even shoots his own guns!! |
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Yup the LA30 is a fun gun and can be very accurate with reloads. For a .22 if your after a bolt action then something like the CZ 452 is a good choice. The gun will likely out-shoot almost any user and they are cheap, well built, readily available etc Or you may want to get a .22 semi-auto that you can use for farm work, but also use for gallery-rifle type shooting as well - The Ruger 10/22 can fit both needs very well. |
Welcome to the board !!  I've got an SGC LA30, love it, it works. Can also be setup as a straightpull. An SF built .300 Whisper is another alternative here. SF also builds AR's in .223. I also have a couple of SGC AR's in .223, last one was delivered within 2 weeks. Come along to a CSR match and checkout the AR's, and see which configuration suits you. |
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Welcome to the board.. My two pennies worth............. 
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I forget who he promissed one but how many months have we been waiting for the mythical 9mm self ejecting rifle?  |
I admit we have been waiting a long time for this, but it is due mid-march! |
I can second that. My original order for an ar15 never turned up after waiting 12 months (not SGC by the way) so I lost interest and cancelled the order. I found out about Mark's work, placed my order and less than 2 weeks later I had a rifle in my hands. I won't use anyone else now. |
The new 9mm has been a long time in the making, but you can't knock the guy for trying to bring something different to the limited UK market. |
2000andnever |
They will appear, but I wouldnt put a date on it... 
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Thanks for the input hand Having hund around ont his board for a month or two before posting, I can see that Mark is held in high regard here, which is probably the best pointer (brown-nosing over! her Where is the line drawn then? I mean, logically, if it ejects and the bolt is locked back, then presumably a bolt release re-loads the next round.. which if it was suitably placed would make it as good as self loading? Presumably the engineering challenge (or one of them then) wold be preventing modification to allow bypass of this... and why 9mm in that case? Is there soe quirk of the act that allows this (I remember somethign about 9mm rimfire having some kind of exemption).. Apologies if I have missed an earlier thread on this.. I'll pay the fee tonight and join so I can search archives. |
You won't find anything. Personally I feel that this whole self-ejecting thing is dangerous and f**kin' Fat Bob should f**kin' know f**kin' better than to f**kin' try and f**kin' introduce something as f**kin' controversial as this things going to f**kin' be. It serves no f**kin' point except to f**kin' try and f**kin' prove a f**kin' point, which is f**kin' pointless any f**kin' how. He's f**kin' going to f**kin' f**k it up for f**kin' everyone That's f**kin' all. Welcome to the f**kin' board anyhow Mark |
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Yeah, even to me, it seems that it is going to probably cause nothing but trouble for little gain.. I suspect that Jo public has little/ no idea that people shoot straight pull versions of what most would consider the types of 'military' weapon that 'should' have been banned...I can just see the tabloid headlines now if something like that raised the issue.. I'll leave well alone. 40 acres not enough to shoot on? I though (probably wrong) that people I have known in the past have been OK to shoot over areas of this size.. althoug now I think about it, perhaps they were bigger than that.. .22 will travel a long way though, so I could see that.. Sunday sounds good, although i'm only good for the morning (of course that is assuming her ladyship will issue a pass), I don't want to get in anyone's way though, so if the AM is not a good time to be hanging out, then maybe another weekend. |
There all day.... I'll be the one that is winning..
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That'll be a first I 
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I'll be there TRYING to win, but prob. won't  but I'll still be thereWoooo!!!!!!!!!!! my 100th post. |
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Mark, Personally I feel that your uneducated opinion on the matter is not required! Mr. Clarke, (often referred to as "Fat Bob" on here) has spent much time and effort, cleverly engineering a rifle that conforms 100% to current British Statute Law. The 9mm is neither self-loading, nor easily convertible, since it has been designed so as to not accept standard lowers, and hence is not S5. In the UK, we really need to push the boundaries of the law! If certain individuals had not done this a few years back, then we would not have Long Barrelled Revolvers/Pistols, which were considered just as controversial back then, but are now a common sight. He is a true engineer. Any old fool can bolt some parts together and call themselves a gun-smith, but very few people can design from scratch a rifle using a brand new concept, |
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Are you trying to say |I haven't got a right to free speech? I'll say whatever I want, any time I like. If you don't like it, there's plenty of other places on the internet for you to go and brag about all the guns Mr Clark (without an "e") has long been referred to as Fat Bob, even by you so stop acting like a hypocrite. I've known the man for 10 years and still don't understand his logic. What he's designing is totally pointless. So it ejects his own case. Whoop-de-fuckin'-doo.  We toyed with the idea of building a self-unloading M14 years ago,(which would be practically impossible to readily convert) but dismissed it as possibly bringing too much unwanted attention. I really can't understand you. You keep talking about pushing boundaries, but I don't see you adding anything to the debate except your richer than you attitude. If we all had Bob Clark, or Starley money, we could all come up with these designs, but we don't so we can't. Fat Bob does it as a side line and has his S5 work to fall back on, and if that failed, would have his other farming and property interests to finance his life style.. When you start earning a living then you might be worth listening to. Until then...... You're the only person I know that defends him to this extent. Strange that. People were moaning about his attitude before the internet became popular and nowadays you can go anywhere on the web and hear the same thoughts, so it's not just here, so do us all a favour and cut out the brown nosing |
Fact 1. Bob Clarke is not an Engineer; he is a very innovative firearms producer using a variety of brought in and in-house manufactured components. If an Engineer is a guy that fixes your washing machine then maybe he is. If an Engineer is a member of a nationally recognised institution accredited by the Engineering Council, then I’m afraid Bob isn’t. Fact 2. Bob Clarke is not a Gunsmith, actually neither is Streetfighter. A Gunsmith is a time served apprentice who has been mentored by skilled craftsmen. Unfortunately there are very few true gunsmiths left in the United Kingdom, Holland & Holland retain and train true gunsmiths, Sabre Defence manufacture arms they don’t ‘smith’. Streetfighter and Bob Clarke assemble, modify and tune components. Where Bob Clarke builds a rifle from his own plagiarised designs he outsources much of the manufacture, where he innovates he produces some good stuff but tends to market and sell it before it’s reached maturity leaving the customer with a rifle that does not always live up to it’s promises. I have rifles from both Bob Clarke and Streetfighter and am happy with both; I've even won the HRA Nationals with one of Bob's rifles. I have, however, had rifles from Bob in the early days of straight pull AR's that did not perfom as promised or implied and getting them put right with him or anyone else was at my expense, I even had a lever action 9mm that I hated. Would I buy from Bob again, probably as I know what to expect I would generally not be disappointed. RN-Submariner: BEng(Hons), CEng, MIMarEST |
Never said I was. Always said I was a gun-plumber though.  Actually I am a time served engineer. Served my time as a toolmaker with a proper recognised apprenticeship. Bob's background is in civil engineering IIRC. BTW, I've never said he does bad work, I just don't understand why he does certain things |
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I know you never said you were, just trying to make a point. However, as I've implied the term 'Engineer' is often degraded to include engineering technicians and craftsmen. The guy who fixes your washing machine, plumbing, car, lawnmower or TV is not an Engineer. If you’ve completed a Toolmakers apprenticeship then you are a Toolmaker not an Engineer, if you prefer the term Engineering Technician then use that, although I think gun plumber is about the best term to describe your current prowess. Bob Clarke worked as a Civil Engineering Contractor in the Middle East, he may well be an accredited Civil Engineer but I have not seen any of his accreditation certificates or letters. If anyone can find his Engineering Council Registration then please post it here. |
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Speaking as a non engineer, when I buy a gun or gun components I want to pay a fair price, have the item delivered in good working order, to a spec as ordered within a reasonable timeframe, and I want to pay on delivery (or when the item is available for despatch). I have had kit of SF and Bob Clark as well as other shooters on this forum and I have to say I have developed my own opinions. I can say I have not experienced poor service or poor quality kit off Bob (in fact quite the opposite) but for some reason I feel wary of dealing with him. I have heard too many people say they have been left less than happy following dealings with Mr Clark for a variety of reasons. Who you buy from is your choice but make sure you know what spec you want, what it will be used for, how much it will cost, and pin the supplier down to a timescale for delivery with payment on despatch. Ask around the suppliers, find out what they can do for you and make up your mind that way. |
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I too have been a customer of Bob and more recently Mark. I have no qualms about Bob from my limited experience other than extreme patience is a necessity, not a virtue. Mark discussed my requirements and produced exactly what I asked for, in a short time frame and offers continued support, 'nuff said. ..and does this mean I can't call myself a Socially Enhanced Community Judicial Applictaion Engineer now........., after all, I do fix things............?
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Me too. I have an AR type rifle built by each of these gentlemen, I am happy with both of them and funds permitting would buy again. Regarding the Engineer debate, this is a long running issue in British society. I am a former RAF aircraft trade apprentice, I have met and worked with many graduates and apprentices and have encountered capable people and utterly useless pillocks from both sides of the educational/social divide. Education is of no value unless the recipient is able to apply it to a worthwhile end. I have held UK Civil Aviation Authority Maintenance Engineer's Licences for a number of complex helicopters, fixed wing aeroplanes and gas turbine engines. I also hold a USA Federal Aviation Authority A & P licence, but when wearing overalls and having dirty hands was often regarded by some as being below the salt in comparison to a spotty youth in some petty administrative job. I don't think I will be the only one posting here who has had experiences of that form of snobbery. Wapinschaw_Shooter MInst NDT |
Totally agree, not a snobbery issue just my take on a commonly misunderstood term. The Oxford English Dictionary doesn’t really help either: Engineer I have over 30 years of engineering experience from life as an Airframes and Engines mechanic, Air fitter, Air Engineering Artificer, undergraduate and graduate Marine Engineer, Chartered Engineer and the Charge Engineer of a Nuclear Propulsion Plant and submarine. I applaud and admire the work of skilled craftsmen be they carpenters, cabinet makers, gunsmiths, builders or tool makers. My skill at hand as a sheet metal worker has faded over time due to lack of practice and I no longer consider myself to be a craftsman but my skills as an engineer have been hard earned and I don’t like being compared to the guy that fixes your central heating (unless of course it’s a nuclear plumber and a 150MW heat source) .
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Don't see any mention of part time gun-plumber in there
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Engineer • noun: a person qualified in engineering, a person who maintains or controls an engine or machine, a person who skilfully originates something. • verb: design and build, contrive to bring about. I do this, you should see me giving evidence in court................
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I'm sure you are a very nice lad Tyga, but you do leave yourself wide open Sometimes better to bite your tongue
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So basically Mark, you have failed to justify the opinions in your original post of how a self-ejecting rifle is "dangerous", "serves no f**kin' point", and "going to f**kin' f**k it up for f**kin' everyone". But instead you decide to launch into a personal and insulting attack against me, which is against this forums Code of Conduct. Very professional and mature of you I have to say... |