Posted: 7/28/2013 8:06:10 AM EDT
| What is the story on the ND? |
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Why is it presumed that the vendor loaded the gun? It is easy for a miscreant to slip a round into a firearm on display with countless people milling around in close proximity to the tables and each other. It is impossible for the vendor to see everything that happens at his/her table when it is that crowded. The responsibility for this negligent discharge, as with ALL negligent discharges, lies with whomever pulled the trigger. |
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Quoted:
Why is it presumed that the vendor loaded the gun? It is easy for a miscreant to slip a round into a firearm on display with countless people milling around in close proximity to the tables and each other. It is impossible for the vendor to see everything that happens at his/her table when it is that crowded. The responsibility for this negligent discharge, as with ALL negligent discharges, lies with whomever pulled the trigger. Every bit of this. |
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From what a HTF member said in the GD forum, it was a dealers personal CCW, who was going to sell it. Dealer dropped the mag, but didn't clear the chamber. It was also said in the GD topic that the dealer was a Garland county judge.
Also, IIRC, the HS convention center is Posted no CCW. I know Far_Right is in that area, maybe he can give us some details. |
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Quoted: From what a HTF member said in the GD forum, it was a dealers personal CCW, who was going to sell it. Dealer dropped the mag, but didn't clear the chamber. It was also said in the GD topic that the dealer was a Garland county judge. Also, IIRC, the HS convention center is Posted no CCW. I know Far_Right is in that area, maybe he can give us some details. |
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Even with this new information, my assertion stands: The responsibility for the ND lies with whomever pulled the trigger. Quoted:
Quoted:
From what a HTF member said in the GD forum, it was a dealers personal CCW, who was going to sell it. Dealer dropped the mag, but didn't clear the chamber. It was also said in the GD topic that the dealer was a Garland county judge. Also, IIRC, the HS convention center is Posted no CCW. I know Far_Right is in that area, maybe he can give us some details. Although I don't disagree, but common sense tells you to unload a firearm before handing it over to someone. If you sell your car to someone, a FTF transfer, would you ask for for their drivers license? |
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Quoted: Although I don't disagree, but common sense tells you to unload a firearm before handing it over to someone. If you sell your car to someone, a FTF transfer, would you ask for for their drivers license? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: From what a HTF member said in the GD forum, it was a dealers personal CCW, who was going to sell it. Dealer dropped the mag, but didn't clear the chamber. It was also said in the GD topic that the dealer was a Garland county judge. Also, IIRC, the HS convention center is Posted no CCW. I know Far_Right is in that area, maybe he can give us some details. Although I don't disagree, but common sense tells you to unload a firearm before handing it over to someone. If you sell your car to someone, a FTF transfer, would you ask for for their drivers license? I never stated that it was a good idea to leave the firearm loaded. I stated that the responsibility for the ND belongs to whomever pulled the trigger. The vendor did not pull the trigger. The shooter assumed ALL responsibility and liability when he willingly took possession of the firearm. It was not the vendors fault that he pulled the trigger on a loaded gun. It was not the fault of the show promoters that invited the dumbass in. It was not the fault of that morbidly obese "event security" fella that received dumbass' entry fee. Nor was it the fault of the gun or ammunition manufacturers for making these devices available to which dumbass gained access. The dumbass that pulled the trigger ALONE is responsible for what HE alone did. No. Why would I do that? |
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Quoted:
I never stated that it was a good idea to leave the firearm loaded. I stated that the responsibility for the ND belongs to whomever pulled the trigger. The vendor did not pull the trigger. The shooter assumed ALL responsibility and liability when he willingly took possession of the firearm. It was not the vendors fault that he pulled the trigger on a loaded gun. It was not the fault of the show promoters that invited the dumbass in. It was not the fault of that morbidly obese "event security" fella that received dumbass' entry fee. Nor was it the fault of the gun or ammunition manufacturers for making these devices available to which dumbass gained access. The dumbass that pulled the trigger ALONE is responsible for what HE alone did. No. Why would I do that? Quoted:
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From what a HTF member said in the GD forum, it was a dealers personal CCW, who was going to sell it. Dealer dropped the mag, but didn't clear the chamber. It was also said in the GD topic that the dealer was a Garland county judge. Also, IIRC, the HS convention center is Posted no CCW. I know Far_Right is in that area, maybe he can give us some details. Although I don't disagree, but common sense tells you to unload a firearm before handing it over to someone. If you sell your car to someone, a FTF transfer, would you ask for for their drivers license? I never stated that it was a good idea to leave the firearm loaded. I stated that the responsibility for the ND belongs to whomever pulled the trigger. The vendor did not pull the trigger. The shooter assumed ALL responsibility and liability when he willingly took possession of the firearm. It was not the vendors fault that he pulled the trigger on a loaded gun. It was not the fault of the show promoters that invited the dumbass in. It was not the fault of that morbidly obese "event security" fella that received dumbass' entry fee. Nor was it the fault of the gun or ammunition manufacturers for making these devices available to which dumbass gained access. The dumbass that pulled the trigger ALONE is responsible for what HE alone did. No. Why would I do that? Please don't take it the wrong way brother, I didn't mean to offend you. I totally agree both is at fault. As forest gump said, stupid is as stupid does. A man who hands a loaded gun to someone is dumb, and someone who don't check the chamber is dumb also. Common sense, in my opinion. |
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Keep in mind that many of the people at gunshows, should never handle a loaded firearm in the first place.
Giving them one that was unknowingly "loaded" is at least 50% responsibility of the gun dealer. I agree that a gun is always loaded, but you would be amazed at the number of people that shop for handguns, that have never been shown any handling rules. Many of them have never touched a gun before. Can you really blame a guy that never touched a gun for an ND when the gun owner handed it to him loaded? |
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Quoted: Please don't take it the wrong way brother, I didn't mean to offend you. I totally agree both is at fault. As forest gump said, stupid is as stupid does. A man who hands a loaded gun to someone is dumb, and someone who don't check the chamber is dumb also. Common sense, in my opinion. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: From what a HTF member said in the GD forum, it was a dealers personal CCW, who was going to sell it. Dealer dropped the mag, but didn't clear the chamber. It was also said in the GD topic that the dealer was a Garland county judge. Also, IIRC, the HS convention center is Posted no CCW. I know Far_Right is in that area, maybe he can give us some details. Although I don't disagree, but common sense tells you to unload a firearm before handing it over to someone. If you sell your car to someone, a FTF transfer, would you ask for for their drivers license? I never stated that it was a good idea to leave the firearm loaded. I stated that the responsibility for the ND belongs to whomever pulled the trigger. The vendor did not pull the trigger. The shooter assumed ALL responsibility and liability when he willingly took possession of the firearm. It was not the vendors fault that he pulled the trigger on a loaded gun. It was not the fault of the show promoters that invited the dumbass in. It was not the fault of that morbidly obese "event security" fella that received dumbass' entry fee. Nor was it the fault of the gun or ammunition manufacturers for making these devices available to which dumbass gained access. The dumbass that pulled the trigger ALONE is responsible for what HE alone did. No. Why would I do that? Please don't take it the wrong way brother, I didn't mean to offend you. I totally agree both is at fault. As forest gump said, stupid is as stupid does. A man who hands a loaded gun to someone is dumb, and someone who don't check the chamber is dumb also. Common sense, in my opinion. |
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Quoted: ...carrying a loaded gun to and inside a gunshow is a bad idea. Nonsense. I carry a loaded weapon to EVERY gunshow I go to. It's a very good idea -- especially for fairgrounds shows -- provided you keep the fucking thing holstered and don't go showing it off... |
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Word from the other vendors that were at the show, the vendor in question is a former prosecuting attorney. The gun was zip tied on the table originally, he removed zip tie for a customer to inspect the weapon ( a .40 Cal handgun) several other people wanted to look at it before the dealer could reinstall zip tie the weapon, witnesses say at least 6-10 people handled the weapon prior to the negligent discharge occurring. This wasn't his personal CC weapon nor did he put it on the table loaded. It is the opinion of most people at the show vendors/dealers that some anti-gun activist did this as a publicity stunt to further their agenda. There is rumor that another weapon on a separate vendors table was sold and taken home upon arriving home they racked the lever on the Henry .22 lever action rifle when a round either ejected or was chambered. Will have exactly what happened with this rifle if it did straight from the owners mouth by tomorrow. He is a family friend.
Edited to add the caliber of the handgun involved in this incident. |
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Quoted: It is the opinion of most people at the show vendors/dealers that some anti-gun activist did this as a publicity stunt to further their agenda. |