Posted: 11/22/2010 3:54:07 AM EDT
After all the money arfcom has cost me in so many ways  , I think it's time to start down the NFA road.
First, are there any issues or pitfalls to avoid in doing a trust for NFA in Arkansas? Any specific language that may need to be added? Or is it just as simple as having it drawn up, signed, and notarized? Second, is there anyone recommended for engraving a lower in the NWA area? I know I could have it shipped, but I'd rather have it done locally if possible. Even if it doesn't save any money, I can at least lessen the risk and hassle by not shipping it. If I do have to ship it, plan B is Orion Arms. My first stamp will be for an SBR AR-15, which will be my second AR, and the first I will have built myself. After that, I'll start looking at cans 
|
|
A simple trust through QuickenWills or whatever its called will work just fine. But you can spend as little or as much money as you want. Spikes08 is the man for talking about NFA trusts though. As I am on the other side of the state I know nothing of local engravers. You could probably stop at a jewelry store and see if they use a local engraver and go from there. |
|
I'm down here working in AR right now .. but let me ask a question. Is your Sheriff being that big of a dickhead to warrant a trust or is it a matter of conveniance for you?
I live in MO and I've NEVER had a problem getting a signature. A couple times I was told "that's ILLEGAL" and I calmly explained the law (to the CLEO) and I had my signature within minutes after they verified my info. |
|
Quoted:
I'm down here working in AR right now .. but let me ask a question. Is your Sheriff being that big of a dickhead to warrant a trust or is it a matter of conveniance for you? I live in MO and I've NEVER had a problem getting a signature. A couple times I was told "that's ILLEGAL" and I calmly explained the law (to the CLEO) and I had my signature within minutes after they verified my info. I think one of the main reasons to use a trust over the others is that it provides for ownership of the NFA items if something happens to you. If you are the single owner of a Class III firearm or device and die, who get's the stuff? With a Trust that info is spelled out thus making transfer easy. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I'm down here working in AR right now .. but let me ask a question. Is your Sheriff being that big of a dickhead to warrant a trust or is it a matter of conveniance for you? I live in MO and I've NEVER had a problem getting a signature. A couple times I was told "that's ILLEGAL" and I calmly explained the law (to the CLEO) and I had my signature within minutes after they verified my info. I think one of the main reasons to use a trust over the others is that it provides for ownership of the NFA items if something happens to you. If you are the single owner of a Class III firearm or device and die, who get's the stuff? With a Trust that info is spelled out thus making transfer easy. +1 Also, I can then keep my toys in the safe I share with my dad and not have to get my own. |
|
Quoted: A&B pawn in Van Buren has a copy of my trust that anyone can copy. It was done by a local estate attorney here in Fort Smith. CP Are they family or named in the trust? If not, why would you leave a copy of your trust anywhere? Muchless post on the internet its free for anyone to get it and copy it. OPSEC FAIL!!! |
|
Hey DZ,
Scotty @ Arkansas Outdoor Supply(Siloam Srings), IIRC, knows of someone local. I am sure he will be by to fill in the details. I am about to start my process, with either a sign-off or the trust route. I don't know how our local CLEO is about signing off, so may go the trust route. I still don't know which is better. Personally, I would rather go the sign-off route, but.......... C |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm down here working in AR right now .. but let me ask a question. Is your Sheriff being that big of a dickhead to warrant a trust or is it a matter of conveniance for you? I live in MO and I've NEVER had a problem getting a signature. A couple times I was told "that's ILLEGAL" and I calmly explained the law (to the CLEO) and I had my signature within minutes after they verified my info. I think one of the main reasons to use a trust over the others is that it provides for ownership of the NFA items if something happens to you. If you are the single owner of a Class III firearm or device and die, who get's the stuff? With a Trust that info is spelled out thus making transfer easy. +1 Also, I can then keep my toys in the safe I share with my dad and not have to get my own. Pretty much a variation of all of these. I don't really want to deal with the hassle running all over town doing fingerprints, passport photos, and all that jazz. Part of the joy of working nights 
As far as the trust taking care of transfers after death, that's another plus. I would like my parents to be able to have access to whatever I buy. I may be out of the country for a bit in the near future, so I would like someone to be able to make sure my stuff isn't rusting, and for my firearms to be accessible in case of emergency. Quoted:
Quoted:
A&B pawn in Van Buren has a copy of my trust that anyone can copy. It was done by a local estate attorney here in Fort Smith. CP Are they family or named in the trust? If not, why would you leave a copy of your trust anywhere? Muchless post on the internet its free for anyone to get it and copy it. OPSEC FAIL!!! Thanks for the offer cpermd. Spikes08, I assume the copy he left is a fill in the blank type. I hope 
Quoted:
Hey DZ, Scotty @ Arkansas Outdoor Supply(Siloam Srings), IIRC, knows of someone local. I am sure he will be by to fill in the details. I am about to start my process, with either a sign-off or the trust route. I don't know how our local CLEO is about signing off, so may go the trust route. I still don't know which is better. Personally, I would rather go the sign-off route, but.......... C It seems to me the only downsides of going the trust route are 1 - your items are owned by a legal entity, not you, and 2 - the possibility, however remote, that the ATF decides that your trust, or something about trusts in general, is invalid. If #2 ever happens, good f'n luck to them. That's a thread for another day. I wish them and their history of changing things at random to suit them a Merry <coc violation>, and a Happy New <coc violation> 
I am interested in what Scotty has to say. I've only made the trip to his shop once before. Now that he's got his SOT, I may have to make a run to Siloam. |
|
I do have a friend that does laser engraving. He does it part time so we have to work with him on his schedule. He does trophies and is one of the engravers for Dark Ops knives. He is a gun guy, so he will work on NFA stuff. He is doing my lower. I will talk to him on Saturday and see what he charges to do the necessary engraving and will follow up with a post.
|
|
Quoted:
I do have a friend that does laser engraving. He does it part time so we have to work with him on his schedule. He does trophies and is one of the engravers for Dark Ops knives. He is a gun guy, so he will work on NFA stuff. He is doing my lower. I will talk to him on Saturday and see what he charges to do the necessary engraving and will follow up with a post. Thanks Scotty. |
|
Quoted:
I do have a friend that does laser engraving. He does it part time so we have to work with him on his schedule. He does trophies and is one of the engravers for Dark Ops knives. He is a gun guy, so he will work on NFA stuff. He is doing my lower. I will talk to him on Saturday and see what he charges to do the necessary engraving and will follow up with a post. Everything I have ever looked at said that laser engraving does not etch deep enough to meet NFA standards. I could be way off base but thats just what I think I remember seeing |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
A&B pawn in Van Buren has a copy of my trust that anyone can copy. It was done by a local estate attorney here in Fort Smith. CP Are they family or named in the trust? If not, why would you leave a copy of your trust anywhere? Muchless post on the internet its free for anyone to get it and copy it. OPSEC FAIL!!! Dude, You need to take some Valium It is a fill in the blank form for folks to use for free. Just fill in the blanks for the grantor, trustees and beneficiaries; date it and have it notarized. I also gave it to Knesek's but they are CHARGING folks to copy it. Pissed me off bad. And then they never got their long range done which was the only reason I paid to join there. But that is another story. CP |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I do have a friend that does laser engraving. He does it part time so we have to work with him on his schedule. He does trophies and is one of the engravers for Dark Ops knives. He is a gun guy, so he will work on NFA stuff. He is doing my lower. I will talk to him on Saturday and see what he charges to do the necessary engraving and will follow up with a post. Everything I have ever looked at said that laser engraving does not etch deep enough to meet NFA standards. I could be way off base but thats just what I think I remember seeing depends on the type of laser |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm down here working in AR right now .. but let me ask a question. Is your Sheriff being that big of a dickhead to warrant a trust or is it a matter of conveniance for you? I live in MO and I've NEVER had a problem getting a signature. A couple times I was told "that's ILLEGAL" and I calmly explained the law (to the CLEO) and I had my signature within minutes after they verified my info. I think one of the main reasons to use a trust over the others is that it provides for ownership of the NFA items if something happens to you. If you are the single owner of a Class III firearm or device and die, who get's the stuff? With a Trust that info is spelled out thus making transfer easy. individually owned NFA will transfer tax-free to a lawful heir so the arguement for "easy transfer on death" really doesn't mean much to me personally. being an individual owner is a tried and true method that all in all is simple. I like the fact that I own it rather than some paper entity. |
|
Quoted: individually owned NFA will transfer tax-free to a lawful heir so the arguement for "easy transfer on death" really doesn't mean much to me personally. being an individual owner is a tried and true method that all in all is simple. I like the fact that I own it rather than some paper entity. First and foremost there is a period after the timely or untimely incapacitation of the NFA owner, whatever the case maybe, in which the NFA item is illegal to be possessed even by lawful heirs. A quality trust written specifically for NFA items will provide coverage to all trustees, beneficiaries and thwart any illegal possession issues or mismanaging of the NFA items. Secondly, you do realize that most of the world's greatest wealth is held within a trust/paper entity? Here in Arkansas the Win Rockfeller Estate being one such example. I am not here to sell you a trust. However, if you read an NFA trust designed by an NFA lawyer you would see that the Quicken Will maker and the like trust are laughable. Trust like that will potentially and do for many, get you a tax stamp. However, in terms of legal protection and managing of the NFA items in one's incapacitation they leave a lot to be desired. Here is the a link to more info and the best in the business http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2009/10/why-do-i-need-an-nfa-firearms.html |
|
If you find yourself in Springdale, stop by and see the guys at Aurora tactical. They can steer you in the right direction on the trust. I've been told if you are in Benton county that there should be no problem getting the forms signed by the sheriff.
Washington county is not as friendly. Did I mention Aurora tactical only deals in Class 3 and law enforcement items. I stopped in and spoke with their gunsmith the other day about a suppressed rifle. He was very helpful and my first impression was, he does very good work. He fired a couple of rifles for me and I was very impressed. He said someone in the office would help with all the paperwork. Check them out and Good Luck. |
|
Quoted:
If you find yourself in Springdale, stop by and see the guys at Aurora tactical. They can steer you in the right direction on the trust. I've been told if you are in Benton county that there should be no problem getting the forms signed by the sheriff. Washington county is not as friendly. Did I mention Aurora tactical only deals in Class 3 and law enforcement items. I stopped in and spoke with their gunsmith the other day about a suppressed rifle. He was very helpful and my first impression was, he does very good work. He fired a couple of rifles for me and I was very impressed. He said someone in the office would help with all the paperwork. Check them out and Good Luck. I think I'll stop by Aurora on Friday and see what they have to say. As far as the "gun trust lawyer", I'd love to see examples. I see people reference special NFA language being put in their trusts in the Class 3 forums, but not one person has ever responded with what exactly the language is. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: If you find yourself in Springdale, stop by and see the guys at Aurora tactical. They can steer you in the right direction on the trust. I've been told if you are in Benton county that there should be no problem getting the forms signed by the sheriff. Washington county is not as friendly. Did I mention Aurora tactical only deals in Class 3 and law enforcement items. I stopped in and spoke with their gunsmith the other day about a suppressed rifle. He was very helpful and my first impression was, he does very good work. He fired a couple of rifles for me and I was very impressed. He said someone in the office would help with all the paperwork. Check them out and Good Luck. I think I'll stop by Aurora on Friday and see what they have to say. As far as the "gun trust lawyer", I'd love to see examples. I see people reference special NFA language being put in their trusts in the Class 3 forums, but not one person has ever responded with what exactly the language is. That's because the trust cost $600 and nobody that paid that is going to give it to you for free. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you find yourself in Springdale, stop by and see the guys at Aurora tactical. They can steer you in the right direction on the trust. I've been told if you are in Benton county that there should be no problem getting the forms signed by the sheriff. Washington county is not as friendly. Did I mention Aurora tactical only deals in Class 3 and law enforcement items. I stopped in and spoke with their gunsmith the other day about a suppressed rifle. He was very helpful and my first impression was, he does very good work. He fired a couple of rifles for me and I was very impressed. He said someone in the office would help with all the paperwork. Check them out and Good Luck. I think I'll stop by Aurora on Friday and see what they have to say. As far as the "gun trust lawyer", I'd love to see examples. I see people reference special NFA language being put in their trusts in the Class 3 forums, but not one person has ever responded with what exactly the language is. That's because the trust cost $600 and nobody that paid that is going to give it to you for free. I'm not asking for a free trust, I just want someone to clue the rest of us in to why it's worth $600. Especially when there are other lawyers on arfcom in the C3 forums that are well-versed in NFA and draw up trusts for a fraction of the cost of that guy, without all the doom and gloom drama. I'm just asking for a hand up, not a handout 
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you find yourself in Springdale, stop by and see the guys at Aurora tactical. They can steer you in the right direction on the trust. I've been told if you are in Benton county that there should be no problem getting the forms signed by the sheriff. Washington county is not as friendly. Did I mention Aurora tactical only deals in Class 3 and law enforcement items. I stopped in and spoke with their gunsmith the other day about a suppressed rifle. He was very helpful and my first impression was, he does very good work. He fired a couple of rifles for me and I was very impressed. He said someone in the office would help with all the paperwork. Check them out and Good Luck. I think I'll stop by Aurora on Friday and see what they have to say. As far as the "gun trust lawyer", I'd love to see examples. I see people reference special NFA language being put in their trusts in the Class 3 forums, but not one person has ever responded with what exactly the language is. That's because the trust cost $600 and nobody that paid that is going to give it to you for free. I'm not asking for a free trust, I just want someone to clue the rest of us in to why it's worth $600. Especially when there are other lawyers on arfcom in the C3 forums that are well-versed in NFA and draw up trusts for a fraction of the cost of that guy, without all the doom and gloom drama. I'm just asking for a hand up, not a handout Well free enterprise is at work and people have options. Since the other lawyers on arfcom do it for a fraction of the price call them. I don't see them taking food out of their mouth to give you or anyone else a hand up. They went to law school and have student loans to pay. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you find yourself in Springdale, stop by and see the guys at Aurora tactical. They can steer you in the right direction on the trust. I've been told if you are in Benton county that there should be no problem getting the forms signed by the sheriff. Washington county is not as friendly. Did I mention Aurora tactical only deals in Class 3 and law enforcement items. I stopped in and spoke with their gunsmith the other day about a suppressed rifle. He was very helpful and my first impression was, he does very good work. He fired a couple of rifles for me and I was very impressed. He said someone in the office would help with all the paperwork. Check them out and Good Luck. I think I'll stop by Aurora on Friday and see what they have to say. As far as the "gun trust lawyer", I'd love to see examples. I see people reference special NFA language being put in their trusts in the Class 3 forums, but not one person has ever responded with what exactly the language is. That's because the trust cost $600 and nobody that paid that is going to give it to you for free. I'm not asking for a free trust, I just want someone to clue the rest of us in to why it's worth $600. Especially when there are other lawyers on arfcom in the C3 forums that are well-versed in NFA and draw up trusts for a fraction of the cost of that guy, without all the doom and gloom drama. I'm just asking for a hand up, not a handout Well free enterprise is at work and people have options. Since the other lawyers on arfcom do it for a fraction of the price call them. I don't see them taking food out of their mouth to give you or anyone else a hand up. They went to law school and have student loans to pay. Dude, what is your problem? All I'm asking for is an explanation. Half the people say a quicken trust is fine, and the other half cry the sky is going to fall if you don't pay for something special, but I'll be damned if they never once show why. $600 is a lot, and I just want to know my money would be going to something that's worth it. Would you buy a car sight unseen? Everyone else has managed to give a civil reply with good information and suggestions. I created this thread so I could get some good information from people who live in this state and have gone down this road before. All I wanted to know was if there was any special trust language as pertains to the state of Arkansas, and if there was a capable engraver in the NWA area. I don't need to be accused of trying to freeload on something that no one will even explain why it's better than anything anyone's ever used before. I have yet to see any independent verification that Mr. Gun Trust Lawyer's Fluffy Rainbow NFA trust is anything more than a fear-based scam to get people to pay way more for something that others are providing for a more reasonable price. Maybe I'm misreading your tone, and if I am, I apologize. |
|
I don't think you are misreading anything DZ, but that's just my HUMBLE opinion..........
I am about 2 weeks away from starting the process (once I get a pistol sold.). I have decided to try the local CLEO route first. However, if that does not work out, I think I might take CPERMD up on his very generous offer and take a drive to Van Buren, then run it by a local JD for a looksee. I do not know what your timeframe is, but if I can help out with anything, just let me know. I will update you as it goes if you want. Take care, gb |
|
Sorry I haven't reported back sooner. I know that many lasers will only cut through the finish, but the laser my buddy is using will actually etch into the metal more than deep enough to meet the requirements. I have seen a 1911 slide he engraved in a scroll work pattern using the laser. Impressive to say the least. I didn't catch him this past Saturday to get a price from him. I will try to catch him this week, but be patient with me. Thanks.
|
|
Scotty, no worries. whatever you find out whenever you find out will be helpful and appreciated. I went down to Siloam last Friday to see your store again and chat, but it was closed, for Thanksgiving I assume.
Clastac, I'd appreciate that. If you want, I'll try to keep you filled in on the trust route. Where do you shoot? I've been wanting to get together with some local guys, but the last time I tried to set something up, there were only three of us, and one of us was working where we met.
|
| Finally caught my buddy with the laser. He is down for the time being. The laser must make 65 passes to get the required depth and currently it starts "walking" on him after about 10 passes. He is waiting on someone to do some repairs. His fee is very reasonable. He charges $10 for the text lines. I will let you know when he is back up and going. |
|
Quoted:
Finally caught my buddy with the laser. He is down for the time being. The laser must make 65 passes to get the required depth and currently it starts "walking" on him after about 10 passes. He is waiting on someone to do some repairs. His fee is very reasonable. He charges $10 for the text lines. I will let you know when he is back up and going. Damn, that's cheap! I may have to have him do some additional work
|