[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disturbing Info During CCL Class (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/14/2009 7:02:11 PM EDT
|
My Wife Took her CCL Class Recently and I decidied to sit in with her thinking it would be all men in the class but I was pleasantly suprised it about 1/3 women
Teacher was a City PD and he told us that the police academy was telling new officers that during a traffic stop if you inform the officer that your carrying concealed which you are supposed too. you must have the weapon on your person not between seats or in the console and if you dont have it on your person they will issue a citation to you for this. Which is crazy because Its legal to carry loaded weapon in your vehicle even with out a CCL in Arkansas so there just playing semantics with us GREAT 
|
|
Quoted: My Wife Took her CCL Class Recently and I decidied to sit in with her thinking it would be all men in the class but I was pleasantly suprised it about 1/3 women Teacher was a City PD and he told us that the police academy was telling new officers that during a traffic stop if you inform the officer that your carrying concealed which you are supposed too. you must have the weapon on your person not between seats or in the console and if you dont have it on your person they will issue a citation to you for this. Which is crazy because Its legal to carry loaded weapon in your vehicle even with out a CCL in Arkansas so there just playing semantics with us GREAT that's bullshit, but IF that's what they're telling noobs: "yes, officer, i do have a weapon with me; and i'll be goddamned if i'll let you search my vehicle. and if you arrest me so that you can search my car, you'd better have a goddamned good reason AND a goddamned good lawyer." |
|
Well it was hard to believe that this is true but since I was not paying to take the class because I already have a ccl I did not question him further but if what he is saying is true you would just say you have a weapon in the vehicle and trust the officer has some common sense.
But I really hate the idea of having to disclose this it just complicates the senario especially since when he runs your DL it is flagged with CCL |
|
the back of your chl says "when carrying a concealed handgun, the licensee must possess this license along with an official form of photo identification and both shall be presented to a law enforcement officer upon request" says nothing about whether or not to inform them of your status. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Quoted:
the back of your chl says "when carrying a concealed handgun, the licensee must possess this license along with an official form of photo identification and both shall be presented to a law enforcement officer upon request" says nothing about whether or not to inform them of your status. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The statute was rewritten earlier this year. It is now a requirement to "Must Notify" if carrying. If not carrying then you don't have to do anything. Guess this is a dual answer....apparently you don't have to show the CCL unless asked however you do have to notify if armed. As it is if you are armed and it's your car you are driving, then the LEO already knows you're a CCL holder. So he may or may not ask for it although you better have it on your person if carrying. I do believe the info on the back of the CCL is a little outdated. It says you also need an official form of photo ID. That was probably written with the old style CCL that had no picture. The new ones have a picture on them so seems redundant. The whole intent of showing both if stopped was as a courtesy. As in "I've got nothing to hide officer!" |
|
Quoted:
you dont have to present your chl without being asked for it. Read the back of it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Actually, you do have to notify the officer and present your CHL if you are contacted by the officer while acting in an official capacity, and the officer asks for your driver's license or personal information. This is only required IF you are in possession of a handgun at that time. |
|
Quoted:
the back of your chl says "when carrying a concealed handgun, the licensee must possess this license along with an official form of photo identification and both shall be presented to a law enforcement officer upon request" says nothing about whether or not to inform them of your status. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile just checked the back of mine and it no longer says that... 
|
|
God pulled over for a broken headlight about a year ago. I was armed informed the LEO where it was and when asked where my DL and CCL was I told him. To get to the DL and CCL I would of had to reached into my back pocket close to my weapon. LEO so no dont do that just gimme SSN or DL#. Not 5!!!! seconds after he called it in the dispatch was back on the horn with the LEO saying I had a CCL. No problems, no hassles just get your light fixed in the am. Not even a warning.
Yeah they know as soon as your info comes up on the computer, dispatch is right back informing the LEO. Even when Im not armed I still inform the officer I have a CCL but that Im not armed. Says on questions like "why didnt you inform me" and what-not. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
+1
it is your DL that is flagged not your License Plate. When was it changed? I have been policing for fifteen years. I have never known it to be any other way. I have always heard people say, "The cops can tell you have a CHL just by running your plate." I have never known that to be the case. |
|
My last 3 CHL classes have been conducted by Chuck Lang of the Ark Sheriffs Association and in each class, he definitely stated that the CHL was tagged to vehicle registration. We had a rather lengthy discussion about this as it seemed stupid to every one in the class. I had this "fact" confirmed by an LEO acquaintance so I had no reason to doubt it. The LEO acquaintance stated that when he ran the plates during a stop that a flashing red box would appear on the screen indicating that the vehicle was registered to a CHL holder.
I am not offering this as an argument. Just stating why I made my original post on the subject. |
|
Quoted:
My last 3 CHL classes have been conducted by Chuck Lang of the Ark Sheriffs Association and in each class, he definitely stated that the CHL was tagged to vehicle registration. We had a rather lengthy discussion about this as it seemed stupid to every one in the class. I had this "fact" confirmed by an LEO acquaintance so I had no reason to doubt it. The LEO acquaintance stated that when he ran the plates during a stop that a flashing red box would appear on the screen indicating that the vehicle was registered to a CHL holder. I am not offering this as an argument. Just stating why I made my original post on the subject. I just checked with dispatch and they told me that there is absolutely nothing attached to your vehicle registration when they run it. When we check a driver's license, the fact that you have a CHL comes up right after your name. There is no flashing red box, no bold type, no font change, no nothing. It just says, after your personal information, you have a concealed handgun license. It also shows the dates of issue and expiration. The only information that is given when a vehicle license is checked is the registered owner, address, expiration, and vehicle description. It also gives the VIN and lien information, but that is rarely passed on to the officer. If the vehilce is stolen or has been linked to a wanted person, that info is also given. I hope no one takes my statements as arguing, because that is not my intention. I just hate to see inaccurate information passed on to people. |
|
Quoted:
is it possible that its a juridiction thing? Or is it all standard like the acic? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I guess anything is possible, but since someones CHL status is given to an agency through ACIC, and ACIC is a standardized system, I would think that it is done the same everywhere. I understand some LE officers may believe this information comes up on a vehicle registration check, or it comes up a certain way on a DL check, but most of those guys are never in the dispatch office to see for themselves how it comes up. I myself am rarely in the dispatch office, and when I am I am not looking at their ACIC computer to see this stuff. The only way that I know defenitively how this information is given to an agency through ACIC is because this is a topic that interests me, and I went to the dispatch supervisor at our department and asked them to show me how it works. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My last 3 CHL classes have been conducted by Chuck Lang of the Ark Sheriffs Association and in each class, he definitely stated that the CHL was tagged to vehicle registration. We had a rather lengthy discussion about this as it seemed stupid to every one in the class. I had this "fact" confirmed by an LEO acquaintance so I had no reason to doubt it. The LEO acquaintance stated that when he ran the plates during a stop that a flashing red box would appear on the screen indicating that the vehicle was registered to a CHL holder. I am not offering this as an argument. Just stating why I made my original post on the subject. I just checked with dispatch and they told me that there is absolutely nothing attached to your vehicle registration when they run it. When we check a driver's license, the fact that you have a CHL comes up right after your name. There is no flashing red box, no bold type, no font change, no nothing. It just says, after your personal information, you have a concealed handgun license. It also shows the dates of issue and expiration. The only information that is given when a vehicle license is checked is the registered owner, address, expiration, and vehicle description. It also gives the VIN and lien information, but that is rarely passed on to the officer. If the vehilce is stolen or has been linked to a wanted person, that info is also given. I hope no one takes my statements as arguing, because that is not my intention. I just hate to see inaccurate information passed on to people. Thank you for the clarification. |
|
I have sat thru two CHL classes, once when I took it about 1 1/2 years ago, and last week when my wife took it.  We both had different instructors, hers was a retired LEO.  Both instructors said you do not have to show your CHL unless you are asked for it, but it is a good gesture to give it with your DL and tell the LEO that you are carrying. I've only been pulled over once and went thru several roadblocks while carrying and have never been given any shit, probaly because I declared my CHL and told them I was carriyng.As far as having to carry on your person while in a vehicle, not having it under the seat, between the seats, glovebox, ect.  THATS BULLSHIT!      The law says nothing about it,  concealed means to be hidden from the publics view. Could be that particular instructors interpretation of it, although the law says different.
|
|
Guys, I'm not a dispatcher, but I am the PC/network tech for our county dispatch, so I AM ACIC certified. I've got an ID and can run stuff (if I have a valid reason, which I don't) and I'm trained to do so. I see people running queries all day long.
So: Your CHL is keyed when they run YOU, whether it's your DL or your name and address. You had damn well better tell the officer if you hold a CHL when they ask for ID ESPECIALLY if you are armed. The dispatcher WILL tell the officer you hold a CHL. If you don't tell them, they are going to wonder why you didn't say anything. It IS considered an officer safety issue so they DO have the need to know and the authority to ask for it. They will not hassle you about volunteering the info, but if they think you are being deceitful, they will wonder why. |
|
Quoted:
oh, and saying that you wont be hassled if you volunteer the info, bold faced lie. I know of people being drawn down on and disarmed then handcuffed for volunteering it. Some cops are fucking dickheads Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I was held at gunpoint by a Jacksonville cop while he waiting for back up just because I had two rifles in my truck. I have the report that the moron filed stating this. That was not the end of the doucebaggery on that stop. When back up arrived, moron one, while pointing his pistol at me with finger on the trigger kept yelling for me to reach over with my right hand and open the door. Moron two, while pointing his pistol at me, kept yelling for me to keep my hands on the wheel. The doucebaggery did not stop there either. Had it not been for a Sgt that I went to high school with showing up and reigning in these two yahoos, I would have gone to jail for nothing more than having rifles in my truck. |
| I hear about shit like that all the time. From cops and citizens. I've even had one Conway PD officer tell me that having a CHL did not entitle one to carry a handgun on them. I explained to him that he was fucking stupid. he was a friend of mine though I haven't seen him in years. I hope he knows the truth by now. |
|
Quoted:
Guys, I'm not a dispatcher, but I am the PC/network tech for our county dispatch, so I AM ACIC certified. I've got an ID and can run stuff (if I have a valid reason, which I don't) and I'm trained to do so. I see people running queries all day long. So: Your CHL is keyed when they run YOU, whether it's your DL or your name and address. You had damn well better tell the officer if you hold a CHL when they ask for ID ESPECIALLY if you are armed. The dispatcher WILL tell the officer you hold a CHL. If you don't tell them, they are going to wonder why you didn't say anything. It IS considered an officer safety issue so they DO have the need to know and the authority to ask for it. They will not hassle you about volunteering the info, but if they think you are being deceitful, they will wonder why. I am not a dispacther either. I am a cop with fifteen years street experience. Let me say that the statements that you make are your opinion and not absolutes. While I appreciate someone being up front and telling me that they are carrying when I speak to them, they hadn't "damn well better do it." What are you refering to as an officer safety issue?? If an officer is following his training, he is going to treat everyone as if they MAY have a weapon. That doesn't mean he will prone you out on the ground, but it does mean he should be cautious. I am not going to say that you will not be hassled about anything in this world. You making that statement is somewhere I wouldn't go. I will say that I think the vast majority of the time you tell an officer that you have a valid CHL and are carrying a weapon, you will not get hassled. I know that is not always the case. The bottom line FOR ME is this; Cops, non cops, good guys, bad guys, folks from all walks of life get shot quite often. We all read about it and lots of us experience it. That makes alot of cops and non cops a little edgey when dealing with known armed people. No single group of people is going to get it right every time. For every story I hear about a cop laying a CHL carrier out on the ground and calling for back up, I can tell you of dozens and dozens of uneventful encounters. The same holds true for CHL holders. For every time someone legally carrying a gun has a verbal confrontation or a case of road rage and displays a weapon, I can tell you of dozens where other CHL holders got it right. The only thing I can recommend is to use common sense. Yes there are dumb ass cops, and sometimes they will royaly screw up when addressing ANY situation. There are dumb ass CHL holders as well. Just follow what the law says, and good common sense, and MORE THAN LIKELY, things will go just fine. I may get flamed for all of this, and that is fine too, but this isn't a really tough one to figure out in my mind. |
|
Jacksonville PD have a history of doing very stupid things. I heard a story from many years ago where they actually locked the AFB Wing Commander up in jail for stupid shit. It took the SPs (armed I might add) to come forcefully break him out of jail. I always wondered what the full truth to that story was.
I suppose what we may have learned here is that if they run your license plate it comes back that you're a CHL holder but it's not really related to your vehicle registration but YOUR name. Thus it doesn't matter if it's the vehicle registration or the drivers license. It's your name that is connected to the CHL. But back to the topic at hand. Concealed means concealed. Not defined as on your person. But this thread does go to show that not all cops get the proper training. But during a stop the cop is always right! ;-) Legally speaking for the most part. I will say this, not all cops are honest either. |
|
Quoted:
I suppose what we may have learned here is that if they run your license plate it comes back that you're a CHL holder but it's not really related to your vehicle registration but YOUR name. Thus it doesn't matter if it's the vehicle registration or the drivers license. It's your name that is connected to the CHL. I will say this, not all cops are honest either. Your CHL status IS NOT linked to your license plate, and it DOES NOT come back that you are a CHL holder when your vehicle license is run. You are right....Not all cops are honest, but the vast majority are. I don't know a single profession or group of people who can claim to have only honest people in their group. |
|
Quoted:
sarge all ur posts on this topic have made a lot more sense then most of the posts on this topic, its amazing some people just talking out of there ass stuck I've had dinner with sarge, he's a very good guy and I take him at his word. Any derogatory statements I make about cops, do not apply to him, or any other officers in the home town forum. We're lucky to have some very good officers in our htf, unlike some others that have some jackbooted thugs. |