Posted: 6/27/2009 6:32:22 PM EDT
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So, I have a question. Let's just say this is hypothetical. There is a lineup of guys at the range (S. Cushman, no RO) and everyone is being pretty safe doing their thing. Someone calls CLEAR! everyone replies, except for two guys in the middle. These two guys are talking and either not paying attention or ignoring the call. A couple more shouts of CLEAR! from everyone else at the firing line, and finally these guys give the all-clear. Some firing for another period of time, then another call for a clear range. Same thing. The two guys in the middle continue chatting and refuse to acknowledge the call or are not paying attention. After another period of waiting these guys finally call clear. Another bout of firing and the clear call goes out. Everyone supposedly calls clear and a few guys step out onto the range. One of the guys in the middle who had previously not been calling clear yells out "Hey! No one asked me." This guy is apparently instructing the other man at their table. So everyone on the range pulls back till he gives a clear. After this a few people go snatch up their targets and leave. This leaves a peculiar feeling on the range. Had this situation been real and/or had an RO been at the scene, I wonder who would have been in the wrong.
My take is that everyone is in the wrong. The people who stepped out on the range were in the wrong for not being sure everyone was prepared for a clear range. Even though there were many people and it was tough to be sure everyone was aware and clear, they should have been totally sure that everyone was clear. If they had decided that the guys in the middle don't count because they were ignoring calls, even worse. The two guys in the middle were out of line for ignoring the calls of clear, they should have at least said something like "No, we need another couple of minutes." and responded immediately. If they were not aware of there surroundings that is no better, the calls were plenty audible with earplugs and muffs. If you don't want to deal with other people at the range find a private range. The fact that scares me is this guy was teaching someone else about firearms. Teaching range negligence is hardly something to be proud of. Keep in mind I do not think the people who stepped onto the range were in the right. The only people who were acting totally responsible were the people who stayed behind the line, even though the guys in the middle seemed to be ignoring the calls for clear. I am not really new to shooting, but I am no expert. I still have a lot to learn and I think I will still have more to learn on the day I die. So what are all of your inputs on this "hypothetical" situation? I am also planning on giving Joe Nava a call and getting his input. |
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Dude's not paying attention are in the wrong. Since their are no ROs there it's doubly important that everyone pay attention to everyone else on the line. Everyone has to be doubly vigilant at a range like this, as you never know when some dumbass is going to fuck up the equation. We usually use an arm pump in conjunction with yelling, so we can spot someone that may not have heard. Once when I was there, all acknowledged, "Clear!" and most proceeded downrange to check targets. While a good half of folks are still downrange, idiot pulls up, walks to a table, loads his firearm and proceeds to shoot at a target that was left there by a previous shooter. Let's just say he was lucky the folks still at the line only tore him a new asshole verbally. |
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At Cushman I have seen:
People start walking out on an active range to set up their target People start shooting while others are down range People step off the firing line into the active range to "engage targets" The fact that no one has died yet is simply amazing. I can not wait until they get this private range going |
| You can't regulate stupidity. I know this might cause some flack, but I support the idea that anyone purchasing a firearm must attend a firearms safety class, and a class for owning the specific firearm they purchased (i.e. a handgun, shotgun, semi-auto course, etc.) The only way you get good with your firearm is practice, practice, and more practice. |
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At Cushman I have seen: People start walking out on an active range to set up their target People start shooting while others are down range People step off the firing line into the active range to "engage targets" The fact that no one has died yet is simply amazing. I can not wait until they get this private range going There is a reason I go late in the evening and usually with a bunch of military buddies or the like. When nobody else is there its the safest range in the world. |
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thanks guys, good info. S. Cushman range is bittersweet and this was my first bad experience. I have been pretty lucky so far as most of the people I have seen there have been pretty safe. It would be nice to have an RO but as long as everyone is safe and being diligent it works. Unfortunately as I have now seen this is not always the case.
HKinAK: I agree that everyone should take a class. I do not think however that taking a class makes a person totally safe with a firearm. The guy who was being an ass was teaching someone and could very well have been a certified instructor. Taking a class is definitely a great idea, but to truly be safe with a firearm you must be a responsible person. |
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At Cushman I have seen: People start walking out on an active range to set up their target People start shooting while others are down range People step off the firing line into the active range to "engage targets" The fact that no one has died yet is simply amazing. I can not wait until they get this private range going There is a reason I go late in the evening and usually with a bunch of military buddies or the like. When nobody else is there its the safest range in the world. Same here The less people I see the better. Unfortunately, life has made it so I never see people there as I am always tied up with other things |
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Yeah, EPM at birchwood does have its benefits...............closed days...........it is worth the $175 a year membership. The money I have spend on my EPM's is money well spent. Like on the closed days and after hours, We can run and gun safely all over the range. Playing our silly little games or working on our skills. I rarely shoot from the bench and find no joy shooting from the line. ~R |
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Yeah, EPM at birchwood does have its benefits...............closed days...........it is worth the $175 a year membership. The money I have spend on my EPM's is money well spent. Like on the closed days and after hours, We can run and gun safely all over the range. Playing our silly little games or working on our skills. I rarely shoot from the bench and find no joy shooting from the line. ~R There is defintely a time and place for that, and I too would much rather do dynamic shooting (unless I am playing with the bolt guns) Anymore though, unless I am the ONLY one at the range, my butt stays parked on the bench. I have had people shoot across 10 lanes to hit my steel target at 25 yards. Too many stupid people. |
| The EPM is definitely worth it. I like not having to deal with so many people like during the day and having to wait for people when i go set up a target. I feel less rushed. I've had some people the past few times give me shit because im not walking back fast enough from setting up my target. It is fun walking and shooting on the move with the plinker. |
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Yeah, EPM at birchwood does have its benefits...............closed days...........it is worth the $175 a year membership. The money I have spend on my EPM's is money well spent. Like on the closed days and after hours, We can run and gun safely all over the range. Playing our silly little games or working on our skills. I rarely shoot from the bench and find no joy shooting from the line. ~R I REALLY wish I lived closer to Birchwood... Even if I lived back on the East side of Anchorge I'd pay the $175 for a annual membership out there. But coming from the south side of town I'm afraid I wouldn't make it enough to pay for the membership. I hate Rabbit Creek, but I live literally 3 minutes away... I usually just shoot rimfire down there though as the retards tend stay away from rimfire for some reason. It's nice being able to run the range myself. ~Dg84 |
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Yeah, EPM at birchwood does have its benefits...............closed days...........it is worth the $175 a year membership. The money I have spend on my EPM's is money well spent. Like on the closed days and after hours, We can run and gun safely all over the range. Playing our silly little games or working on our skills. I rarely shoot from the bench and find no joy shooting from the line. ~R I REALLY wish I lived closer to Birchwood... Even if I lived back on the East side of Anchorge I'd pay the $175 for a annual membership out there. But coming from the south side of town I'm afraid I wouldn't make it enough to pay for the membership. I hate Rabbit Creek, but I live literally 3 minutes away... I usually just shoot rimfire down there though as the retards tend stay away from rimfire for some reason. It's nice being able to run the range myself. ~Dg84 Does Elmendorf or Ft Rich have a range for military to use (outside of official duties?) |
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Quoted: Quoted: I live south of Rabbit creek also. I've an epm membership to Birchwood, I drive past Rabbit Creek with a smile on my face every time I drive by and flip the bird. It's gotta be pretty bad before i go there. Yeah, I actually do too. Four weeks ago, I finally got some powder and bullets so ran down to chronograph some loads. At a cease fire, I set up up my Ohler, and the damn thing moved on the tripod, so it took me about four minutes to tighten it up, the range nazi, shouts out on the bullhorn, "how much longer is it going to take you"? Hell there was only four other shooters on the line. I hate that place. |
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What other options are there in FBX besides S. Cushman? There is a range about 30 miles out Chena Hot Springs road If you drive out to the Murphy Dome area and go back away from the houses and radar domes there are lots of places to shoot. Just be prepared for a day trip |
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I lived in AK for years and was just scanning your neck of the woods and saw this thread.
Safety is everyones responsibility - so everyone was wrong. Why not go and tap on this guys shoulder? Maybe he's deaf? Maybe he had two sets of ears on? Who knows? Just ask! |