Posted: 2/12/2005 3:47:22 PM EDT
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I am on the west side of the state, Glenwood. I have a LEO friend of mine that is selling me a rifle. The FFL I usually go through here in Iowa is kind of new and wants only FFL to FFL transfers. My friend is having trouble finding a reasonable FFL in Battlecreek. My question: Does anyone know of a knowledgable dealer (by that I mean, cognizant that only one FFL is needed) somewhere in my area? Shoot, for that matter, it doesn't even have to be that close... Thanks for any help, James |
Edmojam I take it that your LEO friend doesn't live in Iowa and that the Battlecreek that you spoke of is in Michigan? Do you ever get over to Des Moines? If both of these are a yes let me know as I'm a Class 03/SOT FFL and wouldn't have a problem doing a transfer for you...I'll get with my partner and find out the details, as I'm still new to this FFL stuff, and hammer out the details with him. Don't want any mistakes you know. 
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Sorry guys. Should have made that more clear. Yes, my buddy is in Michigan and I am in Iowa. He is not really a gun nut like I am so he doesn't run around to all the gun shops like I do. And I understand FFL's wanting to make sure that everyone's butts are covered, but the dealer local to him is wanting $100 fee before shipping! That is kind of silly since the FFL on his side isn't even neccessary. Mr. Hooker, Sir, that would be awesome. I would have no problem taking a trip across I-80 for the deal I am getting on this LE6920. I even drove to Osceola for my Para Ordnance last year. I am going to touch base with another possible FFL in Council Bluffs tomorrow or Monday but I may just take you up on that if you are game! Thanks, James If anyone cares to read up, here is what the ATF has to say about interstate transfers: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1 (B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser's own state? A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29] (edited for spelling of Osceola) |
Edmojam just let us know what you find out next week as I or David would be able to help you out, David may live in NE but we freely accept his trolling on this side of the Missouri River as he's a great guy and you couldn't go wrong by him doing your transfer if it is handier for you.  Edited to add that I've been called a lot of things on the internet...but NEVER Mr. Hooker!  
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Assholes at Browns fucked me every time, refused to let me mail the FFL copy my self when I ordered a lower from Legal Transfers years back; LT never got the FFL and had to get a refund. They even called the instant check once when I had a valid CCW. Talk to Yogi (Dick) at Cash n Go on N16th and D in CB, just tell him you are buying it on the internet and need a FFL to receive it; let him know that it is an AR. |
| I talked to Mike about ordering a lower from rbprecision he said he needed a SASE I said I'll be back in 30 mins. had everything for him went back he folded up his FFL and mailed it off the whole process went smooth. rbprecision shipped the lower a couple weeks after that |
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You could give mine a call. Transfers are $15. Der Jagerhof Inc. George Scott (Gunsmith) 301 West Pierce #3 Council Bluffs, IA 51503 (Cell) 712-320-1307 [email protected]  But frankly even tho the laws allow him to mail it to your FFL, It's safer for everyone when FFL 2 FFL. |
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How does that make it "safer"? I can see MAYBE I would feel better if I didn't know the seller, but who's to say that the FFL he goes through isn't just as shady as anyone else? BATF is worried about me filling out the 4473 and someone keeping that on file. What kind of assurance does a FFL holder on the other side provide? Does he run the serial number to see if it is stolen? Does he do a NICS check on the guy selling the rifle? I highly doubt it. Anyways, an update for anyone who cares. I stopped by Bluffs Pawn and Loan and talked with the owner. To my amazement, he listened to what I had to say. They did ask that I give a courtesy call to Pott. County Sheriff for their opinion just to make them feel better but it looks like they will do the transfer for me. Thanks to David Hineline and Booger Hooker and everyone else who offered assistance. Everything should be good to go. If not, I will be in touch, Booger Hooker! (I will eventually be in touch because I don't plan on missing the spring shoot!) James |
See: Quoted: No FFL dealer should be giving out a copy of thier license for you to shop with, if they get caught doing it they will not be an FFL dealer much longer. Beyond that there seemed to be a problem. Woah.  Your post reads back as a pissy attitude directed at me. I just offered some help and pointed you at a place to check.  Like in any business there are going to be shady members. But the risk to the FFL is less then from a non licensed. Your ORIGINAL post was he was looking to basicly send the Rifle himself directly to your FFL , he was having a hard time finder a good FFL there in Battlecreek. RE: My FFL 2 FFL Safe: When trying to ship firearms via UPS, FedEx, & USPS they tend to require proof the recieving end is an FFL (ie. a copy of his license). The FFL is taking a chance when sending his license to other then another FFL. There were cases where people doctored Licenses and had stuff shipped to them illegally. Since then The ATF recommends that FFL's only give copies of their license to other FFL's and not the general public. When he sends one out the FFL is at risk of his license being modified and used for illegal activities. Look at it from the outside. You and the seller know eachother, which makes YOU comfortable. The FFL does not personally know either of you. He's taking your word for it and in turn a chance that the story wasn't concocted to aquire a license for illegal activities. His only interest in you is to get a transfer fee. And Personally $20 is not worth risking a FFL license over. |
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I thank you for the info on your dealer, Synister1. Didn't mean to sound like I had an attitude. h.gif I just didn't understand why it would be safer with a licensee on the other end. Just discussing the subject for clarification, no pissing match here. he All the same, please indulge me further if you don't mind. I have never had UPS ask for proof of an FFL holder and I wasn't aware that ATF recommends the practice of FFL's only exchanging copies amongst themselves. News to me and I definitely see your point. I am still not clear, however, on how the dealer on my side would be hangin' in the wind. Johnny Dirtbag could walk in from off the street with a hot heater and ask to mail it off to me. Pays the obligatory $15-$25. The FFL's exchange pleasantries. I take receipt of said boomstick (even though I just got out of the sanitarium) and whack a deer out of season with it. Three crimes committed but the FFL's are none the wiser and happy all the same. I just don't see where an FFL on the distant end makes a difference. And please don't take the above as trying to stir sh|t. I really do understand why so many dealers operate like this. Their license, their way of putting food on the table. I will never fault a man for being cautious in today's litigious society. It just makes me happier when the letter of the law is followed and I get my new rifle with less hassle. Once again, thanks for all offered assistance and I hope to shoot with y'all sometime soon! James |
OK not problem, It just read that way to me. The is the problem with the web. You can never be sure if someone pissed, joking, or a 300lb Gay biker dude that goes by the name of Katie that just turned 18. Many on the boards including myself encountered the proof crap with UPS, Fedex, and USPS. Some have never had a problem tho. "I am still not clear, however, on how the dealer on my side would be hangin' in the wind" Senario: You and I wanted to aquire firearms but were not allowed due to convictions or whatever. So we makeup a fake sale and transfer story. You head off to a local FFL pitch the can't find a ffl in his area story. He agree's and sends me a copy of his license. Cha ching. A few minutes on the computer and I could have a fake yet real enough looking FFL license to myself. It would be enough to fool alot of suppliers. Most of them probably wouldn't check the number to make sure it was real. We later get caught. The real FFL then catches hell from the ATF for sending me a copy of his license and could lose his license over our illegal activities. He supplied a means, not with intent but he still supplied a means. |
Just exploring the subject, if I am getting under your skin I apologize.|
Before I joined our FFL last summer I bought a gun off the internet and the dealer was on the west coast. He would only ship the rifle to a FFL that was signed in "other than black ink" as it was too easy for people to make make mass copies of a dealers FFL and buy rifles and have it shipped to them using the copy of the dealers FFL. Along with the original copy of the FFL the dealer needed to send the copy of the FFL himself from his business as he would check postmark city and zip code compared to what was on the FFL. The shipping dealer ALSO called my FFL and verified all the information was correct and that he was in fact a legitimate FFL...then he sent the rifle. Last year I did the dastardly thing of actually selling some of my rifles and did so over the internet as well. I sold an SP-1 and went down to the USPS and had it shipped from there...they ensured it was not loaded and was WELL packed and I included a copy of the FFL that I was shipping it to for the purchaser. The USPS did take a look at the FFL and may have even made a copy of it for their own records but I can't remember for sure. When I talked with the purchaser I also asked for a signed copy of his dealers FFL in "other than black ink" and called the dealer as well just for my own peace of mind. Good luck and hope some of this info can help you out at a later date in someway. Also I seen Glenwood in the news that you guys had a murder at the bowling alley IIRC...I use bowling pins to shoot at for targets! 
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| I know the zip code part of the verification isn't all that accurate but it does help keep someone from getting ahold of the bogus FFL copy and using it from somewhere nowhere near where the dealer is located. Basically it's just overlapping layers of security for the FFL and when your neck is on the line I would want as many bases covered as possible. |
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OMG. I don't think this saga will ever end. Good news first. Pawn shop in Manawa aquiesced and is doing the transfer for me. Yay. Bad news. My buddy got ahold of chowderhead at FedEx and they insisted that it had to go next day air for at least $70 AND the weapon has to be completely disassembled. Ugh. I am calling the UPS store in Battle Creek Monday to try to find someone with some sense and work things from my end. I am almost to the point of driving to Michigan and walking my friend and this rifle through the shipping process then driving back to wait for it to be received by my FFL. Sometimes life would be so much easier if one was a criminal...hese |
| Check out USPS, I shipped my rifle that I sold thru them and I could pick how I wanted to send it and what kind of tracking I wanted. I sent it registerred mail with all the bells and whistles/insurance and it was MUCH cheaper than $70. FedEx overnight is supposed to be only for handguns and not rifles...at least I think that it's a rifle that's in question to be shipped right?! |
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Cool, thanks Booger. I just did some looking and it looks like the Post Office is an option too. Don't know why I didn't even consider them, probably because I am used to dealing with handguns. And yes, this is a rifle. Colt LE6920, unfired. Thanks again everyone! James |
| I deal with Chris in Grimes. First year is half price. It is worth his membership to get great deals on new purchases and even just to do transfers through. www.gunsandmore.info/ |
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Hey Booger Hooker, I sent you an email regarding this exercise in patience. Did you get it? I see a lot of posts regarding emails sent via ar15.com that never make it. Could you shoot me an email to [email protected]? Thanks! James |