Posted: 5/9/2010 5:10:57 PM EDT
| I'm coming to MI for 3 months and have been trying to find information for carrying and have no real luck. I know it has to be concealed but how well concealed. Here in TN you can carry open or concealed. Any info would be greatly appreciated. |
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ok. Thanks. I have an IWB but it is not comfortable for all day carry. One other question is there a capacity limit on your carry handgun? I know some states have them. Here in TN we do not. No cap. limit... That said, you really should read through those first few links and not depend on what a bunch of guys on a gun board say is legal. You can't dpepnd on us to be there while you are explaining to the LEO... 
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| I read for about 2 hours today and last night. nothing jumped out at me. I have tried to find a simple set of rules/laws regarding CCP but came up with a whole lot of what if's and no ABCD rule rundown. I am still trying to find out more info and see what else needs to be done. |
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Per the back of my license:
No concealed carry in: Churches/Synagaue/Mosque/other place of worship without permission from the head honcho Schools Secure areas past metal detectors at the airport Courthouses (I think all have signs and metal detectors at the entrance. They will not check your gun like some states, leave it in the car.) Casinos University Dorms and Classrooms (note: do not carry on campus at all at UofM or Wayne State, they have a odd exemption from this law and ban all carry.) Bars/Resturaunts serving alcohol by the glass and recieving over 50% of revenue from booze by the glass. This basically works out to be a judgement call. TGIFridays, Applebees', etc is ok. Bob's saloon which doesn't have a kitchen, probably not. Daycares or other child care service centers Sports Arenas Stadiums Adoption Agencies Entertainment Facilities seating over 2,500. The consensus on this for movie theaters are judged by total capacity of the building, not each individual screening room. Hospital No gun signs at locations otherwise do not carry force of law, but you can be cited for trespassing if you don't leave if discovered to be carrying. Parking lots of the above listed do not count as gun free zones. Open carry is legal, but expect attention from the police in more populated areas. You can print all you want, its not like Texas or Florida. Hell, you can strap 2 guns on cowboy style if you want. Inside the vehicle is considered concealed. You must also immediately declare your pistol and show your drivers license and carry permit when stopped by a cop. For example a "stop" is a speeding stop or some situation where the cop is acting in his duty to detain you. If he's just saying hi at the local doughnut shop you don't have to declare. I think that's about it. BAC must be under 0.02%. Which means no booze while carrying, you can lock in in the trunk though State Police FAQ: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953––,00.html Actual law of gun free zones: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(akr3t0yxfxmcuhapiw1m5cac))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-425o Proper interaction with cops when stopped http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10941––,00.html |
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Per the back of my license: No concealed carry in: -Churches/Synagaue/Mosque/other place of worship without permission from the head honcho -School Property (Can be in vehicle of parent picking/dropping student) Secure areas past metal detectors at the airport Courthouses (I think all have signs and metal detectors at the entrance. They will not check your gun like some states, leave it in the car.) -Casinos -University Dorms and Classrooms (note: do not carry on campus at all at UofM or Wayne State, Michigan State?, they have a odd exemption from this law and ban all carry.) -Bars/Resturaunts serving alcohol by the glass and recieving over 50% of revenue from booze by the glass. This basically works out to be a judgement call. TGIFridays, Applebees', etc is ok. Bob's saloon which doesn't have a kitchen, probably not. -Daycares or other child care service centers -Sports Arenas/ Stadiums -Adoption Agencies -Entertainment Facilities seating over 2,500. The consensus on this for movie theaters are judged by total capacity of the building, not each individual screening room. -Hospital No gun signs at locations otherwise do not carry force of law, but you can be cited for trespassing if you don't leave if discovered to be carrying. Parking lots of the above listed do not count as gun free zones. Open carry is legal, but expect attention from the police in more populated areas. You can print all you want, its not like Texas or Florida. Hell, you can strap 2 guns on cowboy style if you want. Inside the vehicle is considered concealed. You must also immediately declare your pistol and show your drivers license and carry permit when stopped by a cop. For example a "stop" is a speeding stop or some situation where the cop is acting in his duty to detain you. If he's just saying hi at the local doughnut shop you don't have to declare. I think that's about it. BAC must be under 0.02%. Which means no booze while carrying, you can lock in in the trunk though State Police FAQ: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953––,00.html Actual law of gun free zones: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(akr3t0yxfxmcuhapiw1m5cac))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-425o Proper interaction with cops when stopped http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10941––,00.html This is how my permit reads. Red is what I added, Blue isnt printed on the back of the card (well not my card anyway  ) When was your permit issued?
Anybody have a site for the NoCarry sign not having force? |
| Very similar to what we have here in TN. But until a recent bill gets signed restaurants that serve alcohol are a no no. Last summer when I worked up there I was in some pretty shady areas and would have felt much better had I been carrying. Hence the questions. |
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Actually MSU just recinded their total ban (link here). They just built a indoor firing range which I believe played a part in reversing the ban (GO GREEN!). The classroom/dorm part of state law still applies.
UofM and Wayne still have and use their constitutional exemption to ban guns. You are correct that the stuff in blue is not on the license. They're just helpful tips I've run into since I started carrying. The 51% thing is a pain because there is no posting requirement. So you have no clue whether or not the bar is a no gun zone or not. Also the religious places are no go zones unless you have permission from the person in charge of the facility (eg priest, rabbi, etc..) Oh and the courthouses and airport thing is not on the back of the card, but I wouldn't try my luck with the TSA or court security. I believe the area beyond the metal detectors in the airport is "federal" just like a post office is in Michigan but its "federal" land. Here's the info direct from the MSP: Pistol Free Areas Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises: Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency. Sports arena or stadium A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more A hospital A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university A Casino "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8. A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CCW permit holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed: First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CCW permit suspended 6 months Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CCW permit revoked Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CCW permit revoked Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court: "Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy." |
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Very similar to what we have here in TN. But until a recent bill gets signed restaurants that serve alcohol are a no no. Last summer when I worked up there I was in some pretty shady areas and would have felt much better had I been carrying. Hence the questions.
I heard rumors that a veto is coming on that. Sorry about that. Hope you can override it. |
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Anybody have a site for the NoCarry sign not having force?
Perhaps I misunderstood the interpretation or said it wrong. A place with a no guns sign (or as I call them the no revolvers sign ) is not a "pistol free zone" as defined in the statue, but you can be charged with trespassing. So you're not breaking the pistol free zones law, but you are breaking the trespassing law.
Here is what a lawyer for MCRGO has to say about it: My CPL has the box labeled "Exempt from Pistol Free zones MCL28.425o(4)" checked. How does this affect my carrying my firearm in an establishment which has a "No Firearms Allowed" posting?
A: Even those who are exempt from the Pistol Free Zones established in the statute must still honor the wishes of any party in control of real estate regarding the possession of weapons on the premises. If you disregard a sign or a verbal or written notice that guns are not allowed in a particular location, your legal status is that of trespasser. One of the results is that you are no longer covered by the "Stand Your Ground" law that went into effect late last year. The Stand Your Ground rule allows individuals to use proportional force in self defense without having to retreat, so long as they are in a place where they have a legal right to be. Even a CPL holder who is exempt from the Pistol Free Zones loses this legal protection while carrying in violation of a posted notice that guns are not allowed on the premises. from here |
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Quoted:
Anybody have a site for the NoCarry sign not having force?
Perhaps I misunderstood the interpretation or said it wrong. A place with a no guns sign (or as I call them the no revolvers sign ) is not a "pistol free zone" as defined in the statue, but you can be charged with trespassing. So you're not breaking the pistol free zones law, but you are breaking the trespassing law.
Here is what a lawyer for MCRGO has to say about it: My CPL has the box labeled "Exempt from Pistol Free zones MCL28.425o(4)" checked. How does this affect my carrying my firearm in an establishment which has a "No Firearms Allowed" posting?
A: Even those who are exempt from the Pistol Free Zones established in the statute must still honor the wishes of any party in control of real estate regarding the possession of weapons on the premises. If you disregard a sign or a verbal or written notice that guns are not allowed in a particular location, your legal status is that of trespasser. One of the results is that you are no longer covered by the "Stand Your Ground" law that went into effect late last year. The Stand Your Ground rule allows individuals to use proportional force in self defense without having to retreat, so long as they are in a place where they have a legal right to be. Even a CPL holder who is exempt from the Pistol Free Zones loses this legal protection while carrying in violation of a posted notice that guns are not allowed on the premises. from here No you said it right., and thanks for the link, thats what I wanted,
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Quoted:
Very similar to what we have here in TN. But until a recent bill gets signed restaurants that serve alcohol are a no no. Last summer when I worked up there I was in some pretty shady areas and would have felt much better had I been carrying. Hence the questions.
I heard rumors that a veto is coming on that. Sorry about that. Hope you can override it. It will. But based on the votes it passed with it will get through. I personally don't have a problem with no bars or the 50% rule that MI has. |
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Overruled : Federal Court Rules Open Carrying Disorderly GCO member Jesus Gonzalez’ federal lawsuit in Wisconsin was dismissed after the judge granted the defendants’ motion for summary judgment. In his lawsuit, Gonzalez challenged his arrest in two separate incidents for disorderly conduct when openly carrying in retail stores. The court found no specific disorderly conduct on Gonzalez’ part, but went on to observe: “No reasonable person would dispute that walking into a retail store openly carrying a firearm is highly disruptive conduct which is virtually certain to create a disturbance. This is so because when employees and shoppers in retail stores see a person carrying a lethal weapon, they are likely to be frightened and possibly even panicky. many employees and shoppers are likely to think that the person with the gun is either deranged or about to commit a felony or both. Further, it is almost certain that someone will call the police. And when police respond to a “man with a gun” call, they have no idea what the armed individual’s intentions are. The volatility in such a situation could easily lead to someone being seriously injured or killed.” http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2010/05/11/federal-court-rules-open-carrying-disorderly/ |
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Overruled : Federal Court Rules Open Carrying Disorderly GCO member Jesus Gonzalez’ federal lawsuit in Wisconsin was dismissed after the judge granted the defendants’ motion for summary judgment. In his lawsuit, Gonzalez challenged his arrest in two separate incidents for disorderly conduct when openly carrying in retail stores. The court found no specific disorderly conduct on Gonzalez’ part, but went on to observe:
“No reasonable person would dispute that walking into a retail store openly carrying a firearm is highly disruptive conduct which is virtually certain to create a disturbance. This is so because when employees and shoppers in retail stores see a person carrying a lethal weapon, they are likely to be frightened and possibly even panicky. many employees and shoppers are likely to think that the person with the gun is either deranged or about to commit a felony or both. Further, it is almost certain that someone will call the police. And when police respond to a “man with a gun” call, they have no idea what the armed individual’s intentions are. The volatility in such a situation could easily lead to someone being seriously injured or killed.”
http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2010/05/11/federal-court-rules-open-carrying-disorderly/ 
So the guy was arrested for disorderly conduct because he was open carrying, appealed his case, the court found no specific disorderly conduct, so now its considered DC...................who wrote this?
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Yeah...sounds to me like they ruled it's not DC.
By the way...the court is totally wrong about how people react. That type of reaction and the MWAG call is extremely rare given the amount of OC hours across this nation. I've been OCing for going on 3 years now, never been asked to leave, never had the cops called on me, no soccer moms running away, nothing! It's all brainwashing. Just because you "think" something will happen, doesn't make it so. |