Posted: 4/24/2010 8:25:36 AM EDT
| I allready know the answer to this question but I need the facts and why it is possible to open carry in cities like Warren and Detroit. Apparently I have heard that they will ticket / arrest you for open carrying a firearm. Is this legal? or is OC in warren and Detroit somehow illegal. I know i've read OC laws of michigan but some say theirs a statute in warren and detroit deeming it illegal. Do they have legal grounds to ticket / arrest you? |
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Depends on the level of harassment you want. It is not as much legal as not illegal. There is no law against it, however police have been known to detain/arrest people for open-carrying. Brandishing is a popular excuse, however the MSP update last year specifically stated that open-carry alone is NOT brandishing and you cannot detain someone simply for open-carrying. Now open-carrying in a vehicle is considered concealed, and I believe that even on a motorcycle it is concealed so to cover all your bases when open-carrying have a CCW permit anyways. If a specific city has a statute prohibiting open carry then they are in violation of the Michigan preemption law regarding local gun laws. Local governments may pass laws regarding the discharge of firearms, but they may not pass laws that are more restrictive than state law. So if open carry is not prohibited state-wide, then local govts may not prohibit it. See MCRGO vs. City of Ferndale. So like I said, it depends on how much attention you want. If you do not mind being wrongly detained or arrested, go ahead, but you may be in for a rough time especially in high-crime areas where the police are used to getting shot at. |
Its great for our cops to think that.
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Police officers are not lawyers. Especially in places like Detroit, the sight of a person carrying an open firearm usually means a lot more trouble than some attention-whore exercising his/her constitutional rights. attention-whore ? How about if I referred to all that own AR-15/AK/SKS/FN-FAL assault rifles as terrorists? Maybe you should read about Jim Zumbo and then look up "first they came for the trade unionists" 
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I stand by my words. Open carry is for the same fools who run straight exhaust systems on their pick-up trucks, and burn a layer of tire tread at every stop light. Like I said, attention-whores.
It is also legal to walk up and down Woodward avenue wearing a sign that reads, "I hate black people". Try exercising that constitutional right sometime. It is also legal to attend your local Halloween party wearing a ski mask and toting an Airsoft pistol. I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone how well that idea has gone for a few poor individuals over the years. All the 911 operators know is that they've received a call about a guy walking around with a gun. What a waste of time and resources when the police must respond to this stuff, especially in places like Detroit where there the stakes for officers are so much higher. I don't blame them for retaining the individual, even if they know open carry is not illegal. It's called maintaining a little personal discretion folks. That is why we have concealed carry; the right to defend ourselves without the public disruption. And I won't even bother trying to explain all the tactical advantages. If you want to walk around with a gun on your hip, become a cop, security guard, or other gun-toting profession recognized as ordinary by our culture. Otherwise, quit crying when faced with the reality that not everyone knows about, or even gives a shit about this particular statute . . or lack of a statute actually. You are not furthering the rights of responsible gun-owners, but rather driving the two sides further, and further apart. P.S.- this opinion is my constitutional right . . . |
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Really? So, if someone is under 21 and can't get a CPL but wants to defend themselves..what options would you suggest? Or those who feel the need to defend themselves in places where concealed carry is not legal? What then?
I don't typically open carry but I've done it off and on over the years, usually when its inconvenient for me to conceal. I'll call bs when someone does something stupid and attention-whorish, but the mere fact of carrying a gun on your hip is no danger to anyone. |
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glock24,
I'm glad you shared your infinite wisdom with us fools that are helping to advance gun rights for not only ourselves but you too. You just sit back and enjoy the fruits of our labor, I'm sure you're used to doing just that. For years the MSM has portrayed gun owners as raciest rednecks and criminals and it seems as though you drank more then your fair share of the cool-aid. Those that OC show proof....PROOF to the public that the MSM have been lying to them for years. You want to only hide your gun, that's your choice and I respect it, but you should try showing us some respect too. You're acting no better then Jim Zumbo did. If I wasn't so sorry for you I'd be disgusted. 
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Really? So, if someone is under 21 and can't get a CPL but wants to defend themselves..what options would you suggest? Or those who feel the need to defend themselves in places where concealed carry is not legal? What then? I don't typically open carry but I've done it off and on over the years, usually when its inconvenient for me to conceal. I'll call bs when someone does something stupid and attention-whorish, but the mere fact of carrying a gun on your hip is no danger to anyone. Barbara, You make some valid points. Thanks for enlightening me. My experience with OP has been limited strictly to Starbucks rallies and political promoters. Limited to people like dougwg. If open carry is being used out of necessity by our younger gun owners, then I support it. Necessity is very different than political philosophy. As for open carrying in places where concealed carry is not allowed, I'm still on the fence about that one. I'm reminded of Jeff Cooper's comments; "If you're going into the woods, and you know there are bears, bring your shotgun. If you can't bring your shotgun, then don't go into the woods". TPK0999 - if you are under 21 and simply playing the cards you've been dealt, then I support your situation, and hope your dealings with law enforcement are rare and favorable. I also encourage you to tell the OP lobbyists that fighting to improve CPL laws which allow law-abiding 18 year olds to carry concealed is a much more practical and reasonable fight than promoting OP. dougwg - If promoting OP is your cause, then best of luck. I just don't think it is respectable when other options are available. Options that I have fought hard to realize, and continue to fight and protect. OP doesn't cast us responsible gun owners in the best light. You're simply playing into the hands of MSM, and I feel sorry for you. When promoting gun rights crosses over the line of reasonable-thinking and common-sense, then we're all doing something wrong. |
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Something people need to remember about cops in high crime areas is that if it's ok for YOU do OC, it's also ok for Antwon and Darnell to OC their SKS and 870 with the taped up grip.
Can and should are not the same, and discretion needs to be the better part of valor. There is a time and place for OC, though you should never shrink from arguing it on the side of the road. |
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We can't start getting all separated into us and them among gun owners. I think some of the most vocal OC guys are jerks. Doesn't change the fact that I think OC is and should be legal.
Keep in mind that anyone who objects to a gun that they can see objects to guns they can't see..you're just allowing them to live under the illusion that guns aren't all around them. |
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We can't start getting all separated into us and them among gun owners. I think some of the most vocal OC guys are jerks. Doesn't change the fact that I think OC is and should be legal. Keep in mind that anyone who objects to a gun that they can see objects to guns they can't see..you're just allowing them to live under the illusion that guns aren't all around them. I agree 100%!! If we let the antis separate us then we are lost. We have to hang together if we are going to maintain our rights. Name calling and finger pointing is not going to work for us and it just giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I am not going to test the waters on OC myself but I will support those who do. I think it would great for it to become accepted for everyone who can do so legally to be able to open carry. |
| the best thing to do would be to contact the county local prosecuting attorney office and see what their stance is with them, and discuss it, and what situations that they would prosecute for.... dont try to argue it with them yet... just discuss it and if you dont agree with their decision you can write them a letter for follow up to try to convince them of your view.... and to get their decision in writting.... that way if a cop wants to harras you wont just have the law printed out but have how the local prosecutor interpets open carry.... and not the way a local PO is interpeting the laws for OC, Brandishing, or creating a public disturbance... |
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Why would you do that?? The opinion means nothing. The law is what counts. There's no law prohibitting the open carry of firearms.
If you want to carry openly, just do it. Don't wear baggy, goofy pants, or a Fuck the Government T-shirt keep the gun in a holster and your hands off the gun, and go about your business. Don't act like its a big deal that you have a gun and I guarantee no one will bat an eye. If you look like you're supposed to be doing it, the majority of people will think you're an off-duty cop, anyway. Make it a non-issue. |
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I open carried 4 times in my whole life. Once up near my place up north, twice at tea parties, and once to a gun rally. I've never worried about being arrested for it because I knew I was in the right and I never did it to make a spectacle of myself.
After the gun rally, we were invited into the capitol for tours and bathrooms. The capitol police had the organizer remind us that there were two bathrooms inside the main corridor, and that the capitol was open for guided and unguided tours. He went on to say that the CP wanted to say that openly carried handguns were welcome inside the Capitol Building, but that they preferred we didn't bring long guns inside because there were children inside-though they acknowleged they couldn't stop us if we chose to. It was a non-event either way, felt really weird though. A few professional types took a longer than normal look, but on balance nobody cared. The school kids definitely didn't notice, though I wish they had. Our presence inside would have been prime evidence that being involved in Government brings the change you want.... the last time I was in Lansing for a gun rally there was no OC, no CC, an AWB was in effect, couldn't buy a legal MG, and you'd get sued for defending yourself, if not jailed AND sued. If we can do this in the capitol building simply because it's public property, you should be legally in the clear on other public property. I still can't recommend doing it as an every day thing, or to draw attention to yourself-because you'll get it. 
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We can't start getting all separated into us and them among gun owners. I think some of the most vocal OC guys are jerks. Doesn't change the fact that I think OC is and should be legal. Keep in mind that anyone who objects to a gun that they can see objects to guns they can't see..you're just allowing them to live under the illusion that guns aren't all around them. That wasn't the point of my post-cops in big cities are wired enough without having better armed criminals walking around. It's expected that they would take issue with OC'ers if they want to maintain a monopoly on force on their beat. It's why I can OC an AR to a tea party in Plymouth, but another dude got charged for OC'ing in Detroit for Firearm in a Casino when all he did was walk NEAR it. The cop knew he was wrong and probably didn't care that he was violating the guy's rights-he had to nail the guy for SOMETHING. His method and victory were making the dude beat The Ride. |
Glock24. I value your opinion but bare in mind it was not asked for. The original question is. "IS IT LEGAL TO OC IN AREAS LIKE DETROIT?" I have my own opinion about it. With mixed feelings with what I have heard from law enforcement and public like minded.
Straight pipes on a truck. Im sorry people like to hear the roar of their engine. I hardly ever turn my radio on. Instead, I listen to the sweet sounds of my hemi. I could care less if you think im showing off. In my opinion its less offensive than those with really loud radios. That's beyond the point. This is a gun site and this topic is about guns. The ultimate goal of really everything we do on behalf of gun rights is to make owning a gun not so taboo in this country. Every right we fight for is essential for securing this goal we have. OC, Concealed Carry. Public opinion shifted in our favor. OC a AR15 and no one noticed 
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Keep in mind that anyone who objects to a gun that they can see objects to guns they can't see..you're just allowing them to live under the illusion that guns aren't all around them. And this is the fundamental reason OC is an important part of the overall gun debate. We all know that the sheep are experts at pretending. Pretending they're safe, pretending threats don't' exist, pretending guns don't exist, out of sight out of mind, etc etc. OC brings the idea that guns can and are carried legally and safely into their consciousness. When guns are part of their daily consciousness, they aren't foreign objects they don't understand, and therefore fear. When guns become a common object of daily living, they are no longer feared, and when they stop fearing guns, they stop supporting legislation like the AWB and local antigun regulations. Be cleancut. Be polite. Be an educator and ambassador. Make it easier for the hard working volunteers in lansing like SAFR, to get good laws passed. |
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Keep in mind that anyone who objects to a gun that they can see objects to guns they can't see..you're just allowing them to live under the illusion that guns aren't all around them. And this is the fundamental reason OC is an important part of the overall gun debate. We all know that the sheep are experts at pretending. Pretending they're safe, pretending threats don't' exist, pretending guns don't exist, out of sight out of mind, etc etc. OC brings the idea that guns can and are carried legally and safely into their consciousness. When guns are part of their daily consciousness, they aren't foreign objects they don't understand, and therefore fear. When guns become a common object of daily living, they are no longer feared, and when they stop fearing guns, they stop supporting legislation like the AWB and local antigun regulations. Be cleancut. Be polite. Be an educator and ambassador. Make it easier for the hard working volunteers in lansing like SAFR, to get good laws passed. It is debatable, but I don't think the public at large is ready to accept the idea of open carry. It's better that way for them because it would require them to come to grips with the idea that their daily life has risks serious enough that they need to go armed. Frankly, I'm surprised, and impressed that there hasn't been a bigger backlash against OC. Maybe the reality is that the public is willing to be more tolerant than in the past? I still think the right is ours to lose. |