Posted: 1/25/2009 9:23:26 PM EDT
| I've read that the law in Michigan expressly allows open carry. Is this accurate in reality? I'm looking to do some camping up there in some state forest lands, would I be able to open carry? anybody know anything about this? Thanks |
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Under the old law you would need a concealed pistol license from your home state to even bring a gun into Michigan.
With the new law I believe if you have a "License to possess" a handgun from your home state you can have a pistol in Michigan. Given that you can open carry in Michigan. As far as being on state forest lands carrying a pistol I would also suggest getting a Michigan small game license whether you are planning on hunting or not. Here is the revised law: FIREARMS (EXCERPT) Act 372 of 1927 28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours. Sec. 2. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section. (2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state. (3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist: (a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following: (i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a. (ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642. (iii) Section 2950(10) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950. (iv) Section 2950a(7) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a. (v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14. (vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b. (vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b. (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older. (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply: (i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300. (ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state. (iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state. (iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state. (d) A felony charge or a criminal charge listed in section 5b against the person is not pending at the time of application. (e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f. (f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order. (g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness. (h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court. (i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the department of state police and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license. (4) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols shall be executed in quadruplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Four copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date it is issued. (5) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction. The purchaser shall receive 3 copies of the license. The purchaser shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. The return of the copies to the licensing authority may be made in person or may be made by first-class mail or certified mail sent within the 10-day period to the proper address of the licensing authority. A purchaser who fails to comply with the requirements of this subsection is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $250.00. If a purchaser is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this subsection, the court shall notify the department of state police of that determination. (6) Within 48 hours after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall forward 1 copy of the license to the department of state police. The licensing authority shall retain the other copy of the license as an official record for not less than 6 years. Within 10 days after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall electronically enter the information into the pistol entry database as required by the department of state police if it has the ability to electronically enter that information. If the licensing authority does not have that ability, the licensing authority shall provide that information to the department of state police in a manner otherwise required by the department of state police. Any licensing authority that provided pistol descriptions to the department of state police under former section 9 of this act shall continue to provide pistol descriptions to the department of state police under this subsection. The purchaser has the right to obtain a copy of the information placed in the pistol entry database under this subsection to verify the accuracy of that information. The licensing authority may charge a fee not to exceed $1.00 for the cost of providing the copy. The licensee may carry, use, possess, and transport the pistol for 30 days beginning on the date of purchase or acquisition only while he or she is in possession of his or her copy of the license. However, the person is not required to have the license in his or her possession while carrying, using, possessing, or transporting the pistol after this period. (7) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol. (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply: (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol. (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a). (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports. (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a. (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state. (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both. (10) The licensing authority may require a person claiming active duty status with the United States armed forces to provide proof of 1 or both of the following: (a) The person's home of record. (b) Permanent active duty assignment in this state. (11) This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply: (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol. (b) The person is at a recognized target range. (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol. (d) The person's parent or guardian is physically present and supervising the person. (e) The owner of the pistol is physically present. (12) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply: (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a pistol. (b) The person is at a recognized target range or shooting facility. (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol. (d) The owner of the pistol is physically present and supervising the use of the pistol. (13) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects: (a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols. (b) Safe storage of pistols. (c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols. (d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol. (14) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 9b. (15) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (13) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols. (16) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both. (17) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (4). History: 1927, Act 372, Eff. Sept. 5, 1927 ;–– CL 1929, 16750 ;–– Am. 1931, Act 333, Imd. Eff. June 16, 1931 ;–– Am. 1941, Act 112, Imd. Eff. May 21, 1941 ;–– Am. 1943, Act 51, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 1943 ;–– CL 1948, 28.422 ;–– Am. 1949, Act 170, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;–– Am. 1957, Act 259, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957 ;–– Am. 1964, Act 216, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;–– Am. 1967, Act 158, Eff. Nov. 2, 1967 ;–– Am. 1968, Act 301, Eff. Nov. 15, 1968 ;–– Am. 1972, Act 15, Imd. Eff. Feb. 19, 1972 ;–– Am. 1986, Act 161, Eff. Aug. 1, 1986 ;–– Am. 1990, Act 320, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991 ;–– Am. 1992, Act 219, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;–– Am. 1992, Act 220, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;–– Am. 1994, Act 338, Eff. Apr. 1, 1996 ;–– Am. 2004, Act 101, Imd. Eff. May 13, 2004 ;–– Am. 2008, Act 195, Eff. Jan. 7, 2009 ;–– Am. 2008, Act 406, Imd. Eff. Jan. 6, 2009 Constitutionality: The Michigan Court of Appeals held in Chan v City of Troy, 220 Mich App 376; 559 NW2d 374 (1997), that the citizen requirement, now MCL 28.422(3)(c), for a permit to purchase a pistol contained in MCL 28.422(3)(b) violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and is unconstitutional. Popular Name: CCW Popular Name: Concealed Weapons Popular Name: Right to Carry Popular Name: Shall Issue |
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I want to open carry in Dearborn, but I'm sure the PD would shoot me on sight. Just call them up first and tell them you wanted to be proactive by calling them up and telling them that you plan on exercising your rights to open today. In case they get any calls about you. 
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9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
Illinois issues no such license. An FOID card is not a license nor is it handgun specific. It is therefore illegal for an Illinois resident that is not a sworn law enforcement officer to to bring a pistol into the state of Michigan if the final destination of their journey is in Michigan. Michigan law does not expressly allow open carry. It simply has no laws articulating its' preclusion. Some State Forest land properties may have property specific rules regarding the carrying of any firearm especially in designated campgrounds. Good luck with that. |
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Get the popcorn..... I got the chile cheese fries! We know you guys are well fed. We've all seen the pictures. There really isn't anything to debate. The law is pretty straightforward in this particular instance. Not sure why you feel the need to insult people in just about every post you make, even if it is veiled. 
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Get the popcorn..... I got the chile cheese fries! We know you guys are well fed. We've all seen the pictures. There really isn't anything to debate. The law is pretty straightforward in this particular instance. Not sure why you feel the need to insult people in just about every post you make, even if it is veiled. I've held fledgling sparrows with thicker skin. |
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Get the popcorn..... I got the chile cheese fries! We know you guys are well fed. We've all seen the pictures. There really isn't anything to debate. The law is pretty straightforward in this particular instance. Not sure why you feel the need to insult people in just about every post you make, even if it is veiled. Quoted:
Then drive it over and stop bitching like a woman. http://jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=39&t=343336 
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As far as being on state forest lands carrying a pistol I would also suggest getting a Michigan small game license whether you are planning on hunting or not. Not necessary at all, read below. http://midnr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/MiDNR.cfg/php/enduser/popup_adp.php?p_sid=p3ijM3pj&p_lva=711&p_admin=&p_li=&p_faqid=1923&p_created=1015982183 |
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IBTL  
BTW, since we're throwing veiled insults around today, what are "chile" cheese fries? Fries with cheese imported from the Country of "Chile". Sorry I usually dont add to these kinda post(s) (Well it really should be "threads"  ) with my spelling as bad as it is, but I felt the need.  this...  
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Hey Greg_W, SMT included you in that insult. Meh, I think it was more about your OC group photos than about me.  Greg_W got it right. The other contestant goes home an empty handed loser. Why is it that I continually find myself telling dougwg that he does not speak for me? Probably because he continually takes it upon himself to do so. 
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You still insulted others. Which is a personal attack. That's a pretty shitty thing to do. Why do I have to keep pointing this out, I guess it's because you continue to do it. Inference does not insinuation make. If anyone was personally insulted by any generalized comments made by me it was because they chose to be. If you'd like, I can have your Supervisor sit down with you to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report and file a grievance. I think there might be some donuts in the breakroom. 
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might also want to pick up a small game license so some deranged dnr officer with a boner doesn't try to get you for hunting. yea, seen it happen. Only if you do not have a CPL. If you have a CPL you can carry afield without a hunting license (except gun deer season) if you are not attempting to take game. |
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9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
Illinois issues no such license. An FOID card is not a license nor is it handgun specific. It is therefore illegal for an Illinois resident that is not a sworn law enforcement officer to to bring a pistol into the state of Michigan if the final destination of their journey is in Michigan. Michigan law does not expressly allow open carry. It simply has no laws articulating its' preclusion. Some State Forest land properties may have property specific rules regarding the carrying of any firearm especially in designated campgrounds. Good luck with that. A Illinois FOID card would work in Michigan. The Michigan law states that if you have a license to posess a handgun, which in Illinois is a FOID card then you would be okay. It's the other states where you don't need any license to buy a firearm that couldn't posess a handgun in Michigan. 28.422 License to purchase There has been MI legislation proposed to allow non-residents to posses a handgun in Michigan if they can possess one in their home state with or without a license. It hasn't moved much in the legislature. |
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YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN MICHIGAN*
1) Any law abiding citizen of the State of Michigan who owns a safety inspected handgun may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law with or without a CPL. Private property rules over-ride state law in regards to firearm possession. MSP Legal Update Newsletters: April 2007 and June 2008: Did You Know: …It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol…... PLACES off limits to firearms without a CPL: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following: a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity. b) A peace officer. c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. 2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law. Michigan State Police Web Site. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle? Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’ as: 1) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2) While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3) While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4) While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5) While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6) While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. 3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law. In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. THE MICHIGAN COURT of APPEALS CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession. 4) Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm. ADVISORY NOTE: Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition. BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public. 5) A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL. ADVISORY NOTE: Each situation is different. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ. 6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc. Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute. “Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.” Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441 “…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District" ADVISORY NOTE: Before carrying a handgun we recommend that you become familiar with all state and federal laws in regards to firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Taking a self defense/firearm course is recommended. Michigan has a self defense act PA No. 309 July 18, 2006 that states you do not have to retreat from a threat, but you must meet the legal requirements before you engage in the use of deadly force. FOR MORE INFO SEE http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/ *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research on the subject of open carry in Michigan. You are responsible in determining the accuracy of any information listed above. If you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law. |
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Sent from [email protected]
"Dear Mr. XXXX, Thanks for contacting NRA-ILA. NRA supports Open-Carry and currently pursues Open-Carry legislation on a state level. NRA endorses Open-Carry in the state of Texas. Please let us know if you have further questions or concerns. Sincerely, Krista Cupp NRA-ILA Grassroots Division" |
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Well I'm glad to see there's still a good fight being fought. Hello boys. And how ya doin doug and SMT? And to both of ya, lets try to remember our differences aren't personal. There differences, and at the end of the day we're supposed to be on the same team! We all know the grey area that the OC laws fall into and the OP should be advised of that. Its no great secret that I'm a believer in OC, but I don't want to see someone drug into a fight that they weren't looking. Especially when they didn't intend on stirring the pot.
To the OP, its not that OC is expressly legal in MI. Its that we don't have any laws outlawing it. However as with anything else in life you do need to read the fine print and follow the rules. I personally would not advise a non resident to practice open carry at this time only because we have had some differences of opinion in the law enforcement community. And though nobody has been successfully prosecuted for OC in MI, I'm quite sure non residents don't want to get themselves involved in an out of state prosecution that will undoubtedly prove not only time consuming but expensive. |
| People do OC more and more in this state. PDs are more and more aware about it and do not usually harass for it. The fact that there is no law for or against OC makes it expressly legal. Anything that is not prohibited by law is expressly legal. In addition, there is specific Opinion by Attorney General stating that OC can not be considered "diturbance of peace". This is what some LEOs used in the past to prosecute for OC. |
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I have been working on getting this ammended for a while now. Last night the Township Board decided to post a notice on it's website that a portion of it's park ordinance (Firearm ban) is preempted by state law and firearms are allowed in parks. They plan on including a notice in their community newsletter as well. They will amend the ordinance when they renew their contract with municode ordinance service (in about a year and a half from now).
I want to thank the Township Board and the police chief for working on this and being proactive. |
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After talking and writing a letter to the city on it's firearm bans in parks, they sent me this email. I encourage every member to do the same if your local town or county has a like ordinance. Below is the email.
Brian Thank you for your email following up on your letter regarding the City ordinance regulating possession of firearms in city parks. The City Attorney has reviewed the City ordinance in light of your letter. It is her opinion that the portion of the ordinance regulating the possession or control of any rifle, shotgun, pistol, or other firearm has been preempted by MCL 123.1102. The City will now begin the process to repeal that portion of the ordinance preempted by state law. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Makayla Vitous, Assistant to the City Manager City of Traverse City 400 Boardman Avenue Traverse City, Michigan 49684 231-922-4444 phone 231-922-4476 fax |
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The general letter is as follows and I modify it as needed depending on the municipality. Here is what I wrote the City of East Lansing a few weeks ago. I have received an email that they are looking into this and will get back to me soon. I will update when I receive that response. Hope this helps as every local ordinance of this kind needs to be ammended or repealed. If members here would do the same in every town in Michigan that would be a great help in regaining some of our firearm rights.
Ms. McKenna: Looking thought your ordinances I discovered this one (below). Under the 1990 state preemption law this ordinance is unenforceable in regards to firearm possession and is misleading to the people of East Lansing and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this offending ordinance within 90 days. Failure to amend this ordinance would be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city of East Lansing. Thank You, In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. EAST LANSING ORDINANCE in question: ARTICLE III. OFFENSES INVOLVING PUBLIC SAFETY DIVISION 1. GENERALLY Secs. 26-171––26-190. Reserved. DIVISION 2. HANDGUNS AND OTHER WEAPONS Sec. 26-191. Definitions. For the purposes of this division, the following words, terms, and phrases shall have the meaning hereafter described: City building means any building which is owned or controlled by the City of East Lansing and contains offices of city employees or from which municipal governmental functions are discharged including any adjacent parking facilities. City park or recreational facility means any park or recreational facility which is owned or controlled by the City of East Lansing including any adjacent parking facilities. Firearm means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding 0.177 caliber by means of a spring, gas, or air. Person includes the estate of a deceased handgun owner. Pistol means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm. Qualified adult means any person who has obtained a license to purchase a pistol under section 26-192 or who possesses a valid license to carry a pistol issued by another state. Weapon means any firearm, dagger, dirk, stiletto, double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument, or knife having a blade over three inches in length. (Code 1994, ch. 106, § 9.80; Ord. No. 1020, ch. 106, § 9.80, 11-19-2002) Cross references: Definitions generally, § 1-7. Sec. 26-192. Eligibility for license to purchase pistol. The chief of police or his or her designee may issue a license to purchase a pistol pursuant to MCL 28.422 if the applicant is qualified under state law. (Code 1994, ch. 106, § 9.81; Ord. No. 1020, ch. 106, § 9.81, 11-19-2002) Sec. 26-193. Possession in city buildings, parks or recreational facilities. No person shall possess any weapon in any city building or in any city park or recreational facility. (Ord. No. 1020, ch. 106, § 9.82, 11-19-2002) Sec. 26-194. Exceptions. The prohibition on possessing weapons set forth in section 26-193 shall not apply to the following: (1) Those persons identified in MCL 750.231(a), (b), (c), (d), or (f). (2) Those persons who are registering a weapon or turning in a weapon to the police department for disposal, destruction, or evidentiary purposes. (3) Employees of the city possessing single-edged knives with blades in excess of three inches in city buildings, parks or recreational facilities when required for work purposes or when possessed for the purpose of food preparation. (4) Patrons of the city parks and recreational facilities possessing single-edged knives with blades in excess of three inches when possessed for the purpose of food preparation. (Ord. No. 1020, ch. 106, § 9.83, 11-19-2002) Sec. 26-195. Confiscation. Any weapon found or possessed contrary to this chapter may be confiscated by the chief of police as a public nuisance and forfeited to and disposed of by the chief of police. Any firearm found or possessed contrary to this chapter may be confiscated by the chief of police or his or her designee as a public nuisance and shall be delivered to the Commissioner of State Police of Michigan for his/her disposition as said commissioner may prescribe. (Code 1994, ch. 106, § 9.83; Ord. No. 1020, ch. 106, § 9.84, 11-19-2002) |
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heya SevenMaryThree, how ya been?
I should be back in MI in June or July. Planning on OC........... For the record, to all, yes, I have a dui, and due to this, I cannot get a CPL for a couple more years. The wife already has her CPL, and I plan on OC when I get back, until I have repayed my debt to society (3 years from date of dui conviction) and then getting my CPL. OTOH, I am also hoping to move back to Kentucky, and they forgive the first DUI. Too bad I have to finish college first...... Out of state tuition would kill me, even with the new GI Bill. |