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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:00:41 PM EDT
The ps90 must be registered as a pistol, but does that allow us to purchase a shorter barrel? Their are no SBR's allowed in MI, but would registering it as a pistol bypass the SBR law?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:46:43 PM EDT
How can it be registered as a pistol? It has a buttstock on it.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:13:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 3:26:39 PM EDT by MlTCHELL]
To the thread author's question: Yes you definitely can register it as a pistol with a 16" barrel, but No, you can not put a sub-16" barrel or a barrel that will make it less than 26" in overall length on it later because it has a stock. If it has a stock and it has a barrel less than 16", it is a short barreled rifle by federal law. If it's less than 26" in overall length, and it has a stock, it is an AOW (Any Other Weapon) according to federal law, which would need to be registered on a Form 1.

If you really, really wanted to... you could make it an AOW, with a barrel longer than 16", but an overall length of less than 26", you would have to do that on a Form 1. I'm pretty sure you can do that in Michigan, though, you definitely can not make it a SBR, because that's specifically against Michigan law.


To GunnFixr: It can be registered as a pistol in Michigan because Michigan law is retarded. In Michigan, a "pistol" is defined as anything shorter than 30", regardless of whether or not it has a stock. If it's under 30", regardless of whether or not it has a stock, it needs to be registered as a pistol.

*Editted to insert "law"
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:16:02 PM EDT
Dealing here with two different legal entities, and two different definitions of SBR's and pistols. By Federal law, a pistol may not have a buttstock (unless NFA, etc). By State law, a rifle or shotgun under 30 inches, but over 26, and with a barrel of at least 16" (rifle) or 18" (shotgun) must be registered as a pistol. This includes folding stock weapons that are under 30 inch (but over 26 inch) with the stock folded.

A short barrel (I assume you mean less than 16 inch) is an SBR by Federal definition, and is prohibited for private ownership in Michigan (unless constructed as a true pistol by Federal definition, thus no buttstock would be allowed).

IIRC, the Federal minimum length for a rifle is 24 inch. Under this, regardless of barrel, would also be considered a short rifle, subject to Federal registration, but prohibited under Michigan law.

The above is as I recall from my research on the subject some 15-20 years ago. Verification woudln't hurt, but I'm reasonably certain I have it correct (otherwise, I wouldn't post it! ).

T Bone (Detroit).
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:27:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 6:28:45 PM EDT by TBoneDetroit]

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
....because Michigan is retarded....





Dude, I know you're homesick for Ohio. But this place is my home, been so for many years. Frankly, the time I've spent in Ohio (a grand total of maybe 5 or 6 months) leaves me with one impression. Ohio blows.

Now, that said, we know we each think each other's home state sucks. I'd appreciate not haveing to read your opinion of mine in every post you write (you write some otherwise very good stuff, and I'd like to continue to read more).

Rant off.

T Bone (Detroit).
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:00:08 AM EDT
Okay, SGN has a good long article on the PS90 in the current issue. If memory serves, with a 16" pipe, it is still shorter than 26" OAL. My memory is not perfect, but I thought that the article said that is was just over 24"

These things aren't available and being sold in MI yet are they? Has anyone see a PS90 for sale in Michigan yet?

To me it is purley academeic, because I don't have $1700 to drop on one...frankly, I barely have $17 let alone add zeros beind it.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:16:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunnFixr:
Okay, SGN has a good long article on the PS90 in the current issue. If memory serves, with a 16" pipe, it is still shorter than 26" OAL. My memory is not perfect, but I thought that the article said that is was just over 24"

These things aren't available and being sold in MI yet are they? Has anyone see a PS90 for sale in Michigan yet?

To me it is purley academeic, because I don't have $1700 to drop on one...frankly, I barely have $17 let alone add zeros beind it.



Its over 26" OAL so its not an SBR, but must be registered as a pistol in MI.

Yes, they are being sold here. They started showing up about a month ago.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:58:58 AM EDT
I was under the assumption that the SEBR was legal here. 14.5 with the 1.5 supressor.
I thought I read that sbr (in MI) was under 16" and less than 26" total.

Is my SEBR legal here in MI?

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:09:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepper453:
I was under the assumption that the SEBR was legal here. 14.5 with the 1.5 supressor.
I thought I read that sbr (in MI) was under 16" and less than 26" total.

Is my SEBR legal here in MI?




If the barrel has a permanantly attached muzzle brake, flash hider, etc.. it counts towards the overall length of the barrel. Therefore, your 14.5" barrel with a 1.5" can is actually 16" and is legal.

Kris
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:41:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepper453:
I was under the assumption that the SEBR was legal here. 14.5 with the 1.5 supressor.
I thought I read that sbr (in MI) was under 16" and less than 26" total.

Is my SEBR legal here in MI?




REGARDLESS of the state you are in a 14.5" barrel on a rifle is a SBR. Permanently attaching a flash suppressor or muzzle brake that makes the the barrel length >16" via blind pinning and welding or 1200 degree silver solder makes the muzzle device part of the barrel thus avoiding the SBR classification.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:25:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TBoneDetroit:

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:
....because Michigan is retarded....





Dude, I know you're homesick for Ohio. But this place is my home, been so for many years. Frankly, the time I've spent in Ohio (a grand total of maybe 5 or 6 months) leaves me with one impression. Ohio blows.

Now, that said, we know we each think each other's home state sucks. I'd appreciate not haveing to read your opinion of mine in every post you write (you write some otherwise very good stuff, and I'd like to continue to read more).

Rant off.

T Bone (Detroit).


Ok, ok, well... in that instance, I was refering to Michigan law as being retarded... which nobody can deny that the "anything shorter than 30 inches in length is a pistol" law is retarded.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:20:36 PM EDT

Originally posted by MITCHELL
Ok, ok, well... in that instance, I was refering to Michigan law as being retarded... which nobody can deny that the "anything shorter than 30 inches in length is a pistol" law is retarded.




Okay, so we agree on this perhaps? Gun laws are retarded!

T Bone (Detroit).
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:08:02 PM EDT
That too... but calling something a pistol when it has a buttstock is extra-retarded, not only because it's a gun law (unconstitutional in damn near any form), but also because it's the equivalent of redefining my car as a pick-up truck, just based on it's weight or length... even though it has four doors, a trunk and obviously isn't a pick-up truck.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:28:55 PM EDT
Fellas does it really matter if it's a pistol or a rifle? Who gives a rats keister as long as we can buy one HERE! THAT is all that matters! SHEESH!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:45:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 1:46:42 PM EDT by metroplex]
I actually had to register my PS90 as a pistol due to its OAL being between 26" and 30". Everyone at the police station gave me weird looks.

Its listed as a rifle on the 4473 (i sneaked a peek when the dealer was writing down the info), but I have the MI green card to prove my PS90 is a "pistol" under MI law. MSP said it would be treated as a pistol, so if you have a valid CCW you could technically carry it but it'd be hard to conceal unless it was winter time. I know that if I were going to attend a CCW class and I have to bring in a pistol to meet the time requirement, it'll be the PS90 unless the instructor objects.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:58:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
... I know that if I were going to attend a CCW class and I have to bring in a pistol to meet the time requirement, it'll be the PS90 unless the instructor objects.


Hah, that's great!

Though... isn't the ammo currently really expensive?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:10:01 PM EDT
Compared to 10mm Auto, it's actually slightly less expensive. It's about 35-45 cents a cartridge, for the moment. It could go up depending on how much FN wants to inflate demand. It could down depending on how much supply FN allows and how fast Fiocchi and other makers can pump the stuff out.

SS196/SS197 uses a 40 gr .224" Hornady V-Max bullet, while SS195 uses a special 28gr copper jacketed aluminum core hollowpoint bullet. There is a big void in the tip.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:41:50 AM EDT
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