Posted: 1/13/2010 5:55:01 PM EDT
| Keiths Sporting goods in Gresham...how is it, good prices.......good selection....quality or crap? |
| I think they have a very good selection, and the prices of guns I've bought have been good. I've experienced spotty customer service, but I've come to expect that at gun shops nowadays......they know they'll have customers so I don't think they try that hard to please. If you know what you want and know what a good price is, they will likely have what you want, or be able to get it fairly soon. |
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I gotta say, Keiths gets a bad wrap for CS...and I've experienced it. Arogant bastards...but today I went in for a G27 with night sights. ONLY because GB and Gun Zone were out...
I received good service as did two other guys around me? WTF? Keith doing drugs? Got a new subcompact and at a great price...But, I'll still go to Gun Zone or Gun Broker first to shop... |
| I have bought a G17 and 19 within the last 2 months and driven all the way out to Gunbroker in Clackamas when I live right next to Keiths just to give them my business because I can go in without being squashed amongst 100 other peeps and actually say "Hey can I hold that gun" without any BS. GB gets my business if I can't find something on the net or from an Industry Partner on here. |
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I've never had an issue. Out there regularly to finger fuck the merchandise.
Keith and his wife are great - the others working there are typical Gunshop people. Tought to get good help I guess. Overall - best inventory in town, and if you have to have it - you can get it. |
| Keith and crew are nice people, but provide some of the worst customer service, and some times some of the worst attitudes. But when you have more buying power than any of your competitors and keep prices low, people will put up with it. Hell I have bought several things my self from him, He had DSA FAL's asking price lower than the dealer cost I could access. I saved $100 on that one, not including the 10% I would have paid on top of cost. |
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They gave me fair customer service when I was in there. The pricing was pretty good. However, I'm on the wrong side of Portland to make the trip out there again to see if it stays the same.
Think of it this way, at least they aren't the Gun Room. I almost feel unwelcome just driving by that place. |
I agree that taking another minute or two with customers, and an attitude adjustment here and there, would go far in improving their reputation. As for backing up what they sell, checking on orders, etc. I've not had any problems with cs in that regard although sometimes it can take awhile to get through to them on the phone. To sum it up, decent prices and selection but absolutely NOT the place to finger the merchandise and talk shop.  If you already know what you are going to buy then it'll most likely work but for someone still deciding or for a more relaxed shopping experience the other places mentioned may be a better bet.
I still shop there, and the other places mentioned in this thread, but my list of shops was slimmed down some after the ammo panic last year. I can understand that ammo was commanding a premium at the time but a few shops went above and beyond what I would consider acceptable even for a free market system... |
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They gave me fair customer service when I was in there. The pricing was pretty good. However, I'm on the wrong side of Portland to make the trip out there again to see if it stays the same. Think of it this way, at least they aren't the Gun Room. I almost feel unwelcome just driving by that place. Holy crap...is that place still open? I guess I should know, I work a few miles away from them... Saying Keiths is not the Gun Room is like saying one pedofile is not as bad as another because he only diddled one boy instead of two... |
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Basically, what everyone else said.
Good selection, good prices, attitudes that range from "occasionally pleasant" to "downright rude". I much prefer the Gun Broker. They also have a decent selection and decent prices, with MUCH better customer service. And as for Keith's, I bought a Polish AK from him one time at the gun show. The reciever was so out-of-spec that none of my AK mags would fit. I took it back to Keiths a few days later, and they basically told me "Too bad, so sad." They wouldn't take it back. I fixed the rifle, and that was the last dollar I ever spent (or will spend) at Keith's. |
| I have dealt with most of the gun shops in the tri-county area over the last 20 years and each has its strong and weak points. Keith's strong point is that he has the largest selection and cheapest prices in the area. If you know what you want, he is the man. His counter people are minimum wage employees and are working in a high volume environment. Time is money and they don't want to hear your opinion they want to sell you a gun. Some counter people are pretty good others are not. Places like The Gun Zone are great. Prices are higher but customer service is excellent. |
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Not a "full service" FFL, so they continue to never get any business from me. That said, Keith's is about volume. Know what you want, come in, spend your money, and "fuck off" (the actual uttering of "fuck off" to you by staff will incur a service charge on most occasions). Don't expect any service outside of taking your money and running the background check. As others have said, certainly don't expect any after-sales service. Personally I'd rather pay $50 or even $100 more for a firearm and be treated like a human being, while at the same time ensuring that FFL's around PDX don't become walmart-ized just because Keith has the buying power and LEO following. |
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Personally I'd rather pay $50 or even $100 more for a firearm and be treated like a human being, while at the same time ensuring that FFL's around PDX don't become walmart-ized just because Keith has the buying power and LEO following. I wouldn't.. I don't give a shit about customer service. I've been doing this gun thing for a long time now.. I do my research, I know what I want, and I want to pay as little as possible for it. I have all the friends I need, thanks, I'm not trying to make any in his shop. Give me what I want, as inexpensively as you can, I give you my money, I GTFO. Quoted:
And as for Keith's, I bought a Polish AK from him one time at the gun show. The reciever was so out-of-spec that none of my AK mags would fit. I took it back to Keiths a few days later, and they basically told me "Too bad, so sad." They wouldn't take it back. I fixed the rifle, and that was the last dollar I ever spent (or will spend) at Keith's. EVERY gun I've ever bought from a store (even the two friendliest gun shops I know, Gun Broker Clackamas and Lost Creek Armory in Bend) has come with the disclaimer that any problems with the gun get resolved through the MANUFACTURER, or their designated repair source. If you buy an Xbox 360 and it dies, you don't take it back to Fred Meyer, you send it directly to Microsoft. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept. |
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snip........ If you buy an Xbox 360 and it dies, you don't take it back to Fred Meyer, you send it directly to Microsoft. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept. If you buy an Xbox 360 that doesn't work from day 1, you take it back to the store and exchange it with another or get a refund (store credit, whatever). If guns are that much different, it was a bad analogy from the start. Anyway, I mostly agree about the customer service in this case. I know what I want and I go get it. I'll pay $20 more if it's a matter of convenience, but I won't pay that just to have someone wish me a nice day or some other superficial pleasantry. Don't get me wrong, I prefer to be dealt with in a cordial manner, but will I drop a C note if someone pretends to be my buddy? Nope. |
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snip........ If you buy an Xbox 360 and it dies, you don't take it back to Fred Meyer, you send it directly to Microsoft. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept. If you buy an Xbox 360 that doesn't work from day 1, you take it back to the store and exchange it with another or get a refund (store credit, whatever). If guns are that much different, it was a bad analogy from the start. Anyway, I mostly agree about the customer service in this case. I know what I want and I go get it. I'll pay $20 more if it's a matter of convenience, but I won't pay that just to have someone wish me a nice day or some other superficial pleasantry. Don't get me wrong, I prefer to be dealt with in a cordial manner, but will I drop a C note if someone pretends to be my buddy? Nope. While I agree with you in principle, a defective Xbox isn't a liability concern for the reseller. Regardless of the scenario, I just wanted to point out that "No returns, all warranty work goes to the manufacturer" has been ubiquitous in my retail gun purchases, and for good reason. You can't kill someone by 'bubba-ing' a video game console 
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There are some dealers like the gunbroker that will allow returns even if you are not happy and have not fired the gun, my brother just bought a G17 from the Clackamas location a few weeks back that was returned by a man who's wife did not want him to have it. Not saying this is the benchmark, but there are places with exceptional CS.
So MMcCall, you travel from WA to give your business to Keith's or do you work over here 
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There are some dealers like the gunbroker that will allow returns even if you are not happy and have not fired the gun, my brother just bought a G17 from the Clackamas location a few weeks back that was returned by a man who's wife did not want him to have it. Not saying this is the benchmark, but there are places with exceptional CS. So MMcCall, you travel from WA to give your business to Keith's or do you work over here Due to work BS, I keep moving back and forth between OR and the Seattle area.. been that way for the last ten years. Currently Seattle, but just moved back from Bend in November. I grew up in in the Portland area and want to get back there soon to settle down... Friggin economy, man. |
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Personally I'd rather pay $50 or even $100 more for a firearm and be treated like a human being, while at the same time ensuring that FFL's around PDX don't become walmart-ized just because Keith has the buying power and LEO following. I wouldn't.. I don't give a shit about customer service. I've been doing this gun thing for a long time now.. I do my research, I know what I want, and I want to pay as little as possible for it. I have all the friends I need, thanks, I'm not trying to make any in his shop. Give me what I want, as inexpensively as you can, I give you my money, I GTFO. Quoted:
And as for Keith's, I bought a Polish AK from him one time at the gun show. The reciever was so out-of-spec that none of my AK mags would fit. I took it back to Keiths a few days later, and they basically told me "Too bad, so sad." They wouldn't take it back. I fixed the rifle, and that was the last dollar I ever spent (or will spend) at Keith's. EVERY gun I've ever bought from a store (even the two friendliest gun shops I know, Gun Broker Clackamas and Lost Creek Armory in Bend) has come with the disclaimer that any problems with the gun get resolved through the MANUFACTURER, or their designated repair source. If you buy an Xbox 360 and it dies, you don't take it back to Fred Meyer, you send it directly to Microsoft. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept. As has already been pointed out to you, that's a poor analogy. If I buy an XBOX at Fred Meyer, and it doesn't work right when I get home, that XBOX goes right back to Fred Meyer and THEY deal with the distributor or manufacturer. You would only send it back to the manufacturer if the product worked at one time, but then stopped working. At that point, it would fall under the warranty. It's no different in this case. The gun was never used when I tried to return it, because it COULDN'T be used. It was a defective product. And Keith should have taken it back, and then dealt with his distributors or the manufacturer. And really, if this had happened at many other gun shops in town, I honestly believe most of them would have taken it back and let me exchange it for a working gun. And as a legal matter, when you buy a product there is a thing in the Uniform Commercial Code called an "implied warranty of merchantability." This legal concept states that when you buy a new item, it is implied that the item will work for its reasonably expected purpose. Sellers can try to disclaim that in the sales paperwork, but as a matter of public policy the courts (and in particular small claims courts) don't often let sellers disclaim merchantability. Thus, if I had taken Keith to small claims court over the matter (and it WAS a $700 gun, mind you), it's very likely the court would have decided that I was sold a defective product, and the seller needed to take it back. This is also not a hard concept to gasp. |
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Personally I'd rather pay $50 or even $100 more for a firearm and be treated like a human being, while at the same time ensuring that FFL's around PDX don't become walmart-ized just because Keith has the buying power and LEO following. I wouldn't.. I don't give a shit about customer service. I've been doing this gun thing for a long time now.. I do my research, I know what I want, and I want to pay as little as possible for it. I have all the friends I need, thanks, I'm not trying to make any in his shop. Give me what I want, as inexpensively as you can, I give you my money, I GTFO. Quoted:
And as for Keith's, I bought a Polish AK from him one time at the gun show. The reciever was so out-of-spec that none of my AK mags would fit. I took it back to Keiths a few days later, and they basically told me "Too bad, so sad." They wouldn't take it back. I fixed the rifle, and that was the last dollar I ever spent (or will spend) at Keith's. EVERY gun I've ever bought from a store (even the two friendliest gun shops I know, Gun Broker Clackamas and Lost Creek Armory in Bend) has come with the disclaimer that any problems with the gun get resolved through the MANUFACTURER, or their designated repair source. If you buy an Xbox 360 and it dies, you don't take it back to Fred Meyer, you send it directly to Microsoft. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept. As has already been pointed out to you, that's a poor analogy. If I buy an XBOX at Fred Meyer, and it doesn't work right when I get home, that XBOX goes right back to Fred Meyer and THEY deal with the distributor or manufacturer. You would only send it back to the manufacturer if the product worked at one time, but then stopped working. At that point, it would fall under the warranty. It's no different in this case. The gun was never used when I tried to return it, because it COULDN'T be used. It was a defective product. And Keith should have taken it back, and then dealt with his distributors or the manufacturer. And really, if this had happened at many other gun shops in town, I honestly believe most of them would have taken it back and let me exchange it for a working gun. And as a legal matter, when you buy a product there is a thing in the Uniform Commercial Code called an "implied warranty of merchantability." This legal concept states that when you buy a new item, it is implied that the item will work for its reasonably expected purpose. Sellers can try to disclaim that in the sales paperwork, but as a matter of public policy the courts (and in particular small claims courts) don't often let sellers disclaim merchantability. Thus, if I had taken Keith to small claims court over the matter (and it WAS a $700 gun, mind you), it's very likely the court would have decided that I was sold a defective product, and the seller needed to take it back. This is also not a hard concept to gasp. Who did you deal with when you tried to take it back Keith, Rob, Dennis, Chuck, Stew etc.....
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And as a legal matter, when you buy a product there is a thing in the Uniform Commercial Code called an "implied warranty of merchantability." This legal concept states that when you buy a new item, it is implied that the item will work for its reasonably expected purpose. Sellers can try to disclaim that in the sales paperwork, but as a matter of public policy the courts (and in particular small claims courts) don't often let sellers disclaim merchantability. Thus, if I had taken Keith to small claims court over the matter (and it WAS a $700 gun, mind you), it's very likely the court would have decided that I was sold a defective product, and the seller needed to take it back. This is also not a hard concept to gasp. Then why does every firearms retailer (apart from anecdotal evidence about Gun Broker) clearly flout this precedent? Liability concerns must trump it at some point. |
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Keith and crew are nice people, but provide some of the worst customer service, and some times some of the worst attitudes. How does that make any sense. You are saying they are nice people but treat you like shit when the feel like it......lol Speaking with them as a fellow vendor, they have all been pleasant and for the most part normal people, having been a customer prior to vending, and once since, being treated like a child and ignored is not favorable. It's kinda like when they are outside of the selling mode, they are one way, once in the zone it's completely different. |
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And as a legal matter, when you buy a product there is a thing in the Uniform Commercial Code called an "implied warranty of merchantability." This legal concept states that when you buy a new item, it is implied that the item will work for its reasonably expected purpose. Sellers can try to disclaim that in the sales paperwork, but as a matter of public policy the courts (and in particular small claims courts) don't often let sellers disclaim merchantability. Thus, if I had taken Keith to small claims court over the matter (and it WAS a $700 gun, mind you), it's very likely the court would have decided that I was sold a defective product, and the seller needed to take it back. This is also not a hard concept to gasp. Then why does every firearms retailer (apart from anecdotal evidence about Gun Broker) clearly flout this precedent? Liability concerns must trump it at some point. Because I suspect that most firearms retailers (and retailers in general) know that consumers are often not educated about their legal rights when they buy a product. They know that cusomers will see an "All Sales Are Final" sign or something like that, and then think that they just have to accept the defective product they bought. But the law sees things a different way. In this particular case, I was able to open up the magwell enough so that magazines would fit. But the fact that I had to spend 45 minutes doing that to get the gun to work, was unacceptable. And Keith's refusal to take it back was penny wise but pound foolish, because in the last three years since that happened, I have spent a substantial sum on firearms. Some of that money would very likely have gone to Keith if he had simply done the right thing and taken back his defective merchandise. But as others have noted, Keith is in it for the quick buck...not for making lifelong customers. |
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Who did you deal with when you tried to take it back Keith, Rob, Dennis, Chuck, Stew etc.....I dealt with Keith himself. And when I asked him what I was supposed to do with an AK that didn't accept AK magazines, he just shrugged his shoulders as if to say, "I don't know. But it's not my problem." If this had happened today, I would have pursued the matter. In the last year or two I've gotten to a point where I now simply refuse to let matters like this slide. I think one of the reasons people like Keith have the attitude they do, is because no one ever holds them accountable. If they understood that some people aren't going to tolerate being sold defective goods, they might be more inclined to make good on such things when brought to their attention. |
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I've dealt with Keith for close to 10 years now. Sure, you can hit them when they aren't the most social crowd in the world, but personally, I can't stand having a salesperson hover around me asking if they can help me. But that's just me. Normally, I know what it is I'm looking for when I go in, can usually spot the area it would be in, and go over to that section. Usually within a few minutes, Keith, or his wife, or one of his staff will ask if they can help you. But I have noticed those folks who come in "expecting" to be treated like crap because of what they've read or heard, or "expecting" everyone to drop whatever they are doing and rush over to them to wait on them hand and foot. For the inventory Keith carries, sells, and restocks, for the number of gun shows he does, and the number of tables he normally occupies at those shows, he gets A LOT of business, and often has to call in for extra help.
In almost any shop or show you go to , there's always the window shoppers that want to finger everything in the place, knowing that they aren't going to buy. Then they are also the folks that will tie up the sales staff with a bajillion questions that have already pointed to the fact that they aren't going to buy, or sit there wanting to tell the salesperson about what their buddy has, or a friend who has a buddy who once was a Delta-Force-Spec-Ops-Night-Rangeer-Mall-Ninja-Extraordinaire-Esquire, who only recommends brands XYZ. Give it a rest. If you know what you want, Keith's is the place. If you need some education on an item that you are seriously thinking about buying, be patient and they will help you out. But if you are just looking to finger everything, or have nothing better to do in your life but to hang out in the gunshop and tell stories, well....you get what you deserve.
So are they all that everyone bashes them for? They can be, heck, we all have our days. But for me, I've always been treated pretty decent. Specially if you take into consideration if they are busy or not, or if you know what you want or just need someone to hold your hand or listen to your stories. I'll do biz with them again, as well as the Gun Zone, too. |
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I've dealt with Keith for close to 10 years now. Sure, you can hit them when they aren't the most social crowd in the world, but personally, I can't stand having a salesperson hover around me asking if they can help me. But that's just me. Normally, I know what it is I'm looking for when I go in, can usually spot the area it would be in, and go over to that section. Usually within a few minutes, Keith, or his wife, or one of his staff will ask if they can help you. But I have noticed those folks who come in "expecting" to be treated like crap because of what they've read or heard, or "expecting" everyone to drop whatever they are doing and rush over to them to wait on them hand and foot. For the inventory Keith carries, sells, and restocks, for the number of gun shows he does, and the number of tables he normally occupies at those shows, he gets A LOT of business, and often has to call in for extra help. In almost any shop or show you go to , there's always the window shoppers that want to finger everything in the place, knowing that they aren't going to buy. Then they are also the folks that will tie up the sales staff with a bajillion questions that have already pointed to the fact that they aren't going to buy, or sit there wanting to tell the salesperson about what their buddy has, or a friend who has a buddy who once was a Delta-Force-Spec-Ops-Night-Rangeer-Mall-Ninja-Extraordinaire-Esquire, who only recommends brands XYZ. Give it a rest. If you know what you want, Keith's is the place. If you need some education on an item that you are seriously thinking about buying, be patient and they will help you out. But if you are just looking to finger everything, or have nothing better to do in your life but to hang out in the gunshop and tell stories, well....you get what you deserve.
So are they all that everyone bashes them for? They can be, heck, we all have our days. But for me, I've always been treated pretty decent. Specially if you take into consideration if they are busy or not, or if you know what you want or just need someone to hold your hand or listen to your stories. I'll do biz with them again, as well as the Gun Zone, too. I have been going in there for about 10 years myself, I do see what you are saying about finger fucking everything in the store but all my accounts come from actually trying to purchase stuff and not just dicking around. I have been in CS working for the OLCC for 13 years and I really do have an idea what it is like to deal with the public on a daily basis. I remember the day my good friend MillerSHO (the orginal OHTF mod) and myself walked in there after doing 5 years of business with them and he wanted to purchase a Kimber TLE RE and we asked Chuck for help when there was really only about 4 customers in the store and at least 5-6 employees. After MillerSHO asked him to look at the pistol he wanted to buy right there on the spot Chuck looked at him as though he could not afford it and basically shut him down by not wanting to pull the thing out of the case and he just stood there and looked at us. MillerSHO looked at me and I looked back at him like WTF is going on here, at that point we walked out without any further questions and Chuck could have cared less to make the sale. Needless to say we decided to go on gunbroker.com and get him one off of there instead. I am happy you have good transactions with Keith's, but from all my accounts and everyone else who gets online to not bash but tell their stories they all speak for themselves. Horrible CS is horrible CS, lets not suger coat it. |
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I am happy you have good transactions with Keith's, but from all my accounts and everyone else who gets online to not bash but tell their stories they all speak for themselves. Horrible CS is horrible CS, lets not suger coat it. I agree. Their terrible customer service goes far beyond merely ignoring incompetent customers who want to finger everything. Every time I or my acquaintances have dealt with them, despite knowing exactly what we want and having a "get in get out" mentality, we have encountered the most insufferable douchebaggery. In my opinion, they are pathological assholes, and I simply refuse to do any further business with them. If they weren't in such a high demand/low supply business, they would have gone out of business a long time ago. For my next purchase, I'm going to try the Gun Zone and a few other places I've heard good things about. Any other recommendations? |
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I am happy you have good transactions with Keith's, but from all my accounts and everyone else who gets online to not bash but tell their stories they all speak for themselves. Horrible CS is horrible CS, lets not suger coat it. Any other recommendations? My recommendation is simply the Gunbroker for handguns, never had a gun shop give me more outstanding business and more than willing to answer any questions you may have, and if they don't have it they are also more than willing to contact a rep and get it for you. One of the better all around shops out there IMO, YMMV. |
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My recommendation is simply the Gunbroker for handguns, never had a gun shop give me more outstanding business and more than willing to answer any questions you may have, and if they don't have it they are also more than willing to contact a rep and get it for you. One of the better all around shops out there IMO, YMMV. Thank you. I will add them on my list of places to check out. |
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Quoted: +1 on Gunbroker. I used to live near their Tigard store, and dropped in frequently to check out their goods, buying maybe once/year. I never saw a bad attitude from their people. Always helpful, never pushy. Fair prices on guns. +2 on Gunbroker. One of the few places you can walk into without some trepidation. |
Check out <Removed - CH>  and find a shop near you. Search their inventory and see what the going rate is on what you are looking for. Call or visit Keiths and see what they are selling the item for. Call your local shop and ask if they'll beat (or at the very least match) Keiths price and buy from your local store.
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| I have been buying from Keith ever since I moved here seven years ago. He has always been friendly with me. They are busy in that shop. If you want chit chat, then yes, you should go elsewhere. I would think that most on this board would have done their own research and don't need or want the opinion of the sales staff, they want to buy the gun that they went there for. They have the best selection and price. They have guns available that others don't. And the one time they did not have what I wanted, Keith ordered it for me and got it in quickly. I will keep shoping there and buy an extra mag with the $ I save. When I am undecided between two guns, I go the the gun show where I can handle them both as much as I want to make my decision. |
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I have been buying from Keith ever since I moved here seven years ago. He has always been friendly with me. They are busy in that shop. If you want chit chat, then yes, you should go elsewhere. I would think that most on this board would have done their own research and don't need or want the opinion of the sales staff, they want to buy the gun that they went there for. They have the best selection and price. They have guns available that others don't. And the one time they did not have what I wanted, Keith ordered it for me and got it in quickly. I will keep shoping there and buy an extra mag with the $ I save. When I am undecided between two guns, I go the the gun show where I can handle them both as much as I want to make my decision. Well, I'm glad that you have had nothing but good experiences with them. There are always exceptions. But as I and others have said, their poor customer service is not about them not wanting to chit chat. And by saying that, you are simply sugar coating the issue. I have never went into Keith's wanting to chit-chat or window shop. I always do my research and know exactly what I want. I just want to go in, ask for what I want, pay for it, and GTFO. But even with this low level of customer service expectation on my end, I am still repeatedly given nothing but vitriol from them. Why people with such contempt for customers choose to go into the retail business is beyond me. |
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I have been buying from Keith ever since I moved here seven years ago. He has always been friendly with me. They are busy in that shop. If you want chit chat, then yes, you should go elsewhere. I would think that most on this board would have done their own research and don't need or want the opinion of the sales staff, they want to buy the gun that they went there for. They have the best selection and price. They have guns available that others don't. And the one time they did not have what I wanted, Keith ordered it for me and got it in quickly. I will keep shoping there and buy an extra mag with the $ I save. When I am undecided between two guns, I go the the gun show where I can handle them both as much as I want to make my decision. Well, I'm glad that you have had nothing but good experiences with them. There are always exceptions. But as I and others have said, their poor customer service is not about them not wanting to chit chat. And by saying that, you are simply sugar coating the issue. I have never went into Keith's wanting to chit-chat or window shop. I always do my research and know exactly what I want. I just want to go in, ask for what I want, pay for it, and GTFO. But even with this low level of customer service expectation on my end, I am still repeatedly given nothing but vitriol from them. Why people with such contempt for customers choose to go into the retail business is beyond me. Interesting. I agree with Hawaii and have had exactly the same experience as he regarding Keiths. Can you give some details on your multiple vitriolic experiences while trying to buy the weapon you want? |