Posted: 2/25/2009 12:40:59 PM EDT
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For anyone who caught this week's episode, or will catch it at 7:30 tonight, I'm looking for thoughts/feedback on the opening segment of post BG shooting actions.
They did not get into the discussion of what to or not to say once officers arrive, just actions up to that point. Identified a training gap for me, as I've often rehearsed what I would say to responding officers, but admitedly, haven't spent much time thinking about the parts they discussed about the time in between until officers arrived. Hence, I open the question to the HTF, what if anything would you add, alter or take away from what was discussed in that segment 
Especially interested to see what DKing and our local LEO's have to say. |
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Assuming this is a shooting situation, I'd suggest the following: When law enforcement shows up you'll need to make it clear you're a good guy/not a threat. If the bad guy ran away or is lying on the ground, you don't want to be standing there with a weapon visible when the police show up...that sort of thing. Tell them the basics like "I was using this ATM and a guy with a gun tried to rob me. I was in fear for my life and shot/shot at him and he ran down the street in that direction. He was xyz description, about 6' tall wearing a grey jacket and blue jeans". Then shut up and if they ask you questions tell them that you will speak to them with a lawyer present. I guess if they ask a specific question about the description of the bad guy "did his jacket have a hood" you could answer that....they might have a suspect in custody that they're trying to ID down the street etc. If they ask something like "how close did he get to you" then you're back into having a lawyer present. If the bad guy is on the ground, it's a lot easier...."he had a gun and tried robbing me" and then ask for an attorney if they have any questions.
I keep a card in my wallet that has the emergency contact info for DKing and my better half has his contact info as well so she can get him for me ASAP if the need were to arise. Having an attorney prior to an incident is not proof that you pre-meditated this incident. You have insurance on your home right? Does that mean you planned the hurricane? Planning on what to do in case of a tragedy shows prudence not premeditation. Call the NRA and get their recommendations for attorney's in the areas you live, work, and travel to. Do it and keep the #'s in your wallet just in case. I hope no one here EVER needs to call them but if you do you'll be damm glad you had the #'s. I know a WHOLE LOT of people that have talked their way into a jail cell and NONE that have talked their way out of one. The Sicilians say it best "You can't swallow flies with your mouth closed." Keep your mouth SHUT. Offer no opinions, and no remarks like "He deserved it or thats what he gets for trying to rob me!" No laughing at the jokes you hear the cops tell at the scene. Prosecutor: "Officer describe in you own words what you obseved the defendant doing at the scene." Officer: "He was sitting on the curb looking at the deceased and suddenly I saw him burst out laughing." Imagine the looks the poor guy gets from the jury when the officer says that in court. Yes your attorney can then elicit WHY you were laughing but the damage is done. The jury has an image in their heads of you laughing at the poor dead young man who "Was just about to turn his life around." Can't un-ring a bell. Give the basic info and then ask for your attorney and SHUT UP. And SHUT UP means just that...SHUT UP. Beyond a basic description of what happened (The guy held a knife to my throat and said he would kill me ...I was in fear for my life and drew my firearm and fired it and he ran away.) And pedigree information from you and presentation of your pistol license say NOTHING other than "I would like to call my attorney and have him present prior to answering any questions". (Note I said "drew my firearm and fired it" not "I shot him" Unless you know with 100% certainty that you shot him and there in unrefutable evidence at the scene that you shot him I would say that I fired my weapon and he ran off rather than I shot him. You may have (gasp) missed. There have been gunfights where entire magazines of ammo were exchanged at close range with NO hits. One took place between an officer in the front seat of a car and the suspect in the back seat. I believe 15+ rounds were fired in that one and NO hits. So do NOT say "I shot him" ) Also make no statements because you think they're not admissable. Remember you are not a lawyer...don't get legal advice from Law and Order University graduates. Thats why you have attorney's phone #s .......remember? There is such a thing as "Spontaneous utterance" In other words if you suddenly say something without them asking you about it it is admissable. Often you'll have officers discuss things within the hearing of the suspect hoping he will suddenly get upset and say "You've got it all wrong! Thats not what happened! This is what happened....." BAD move. Also silence is another thing officers will use. I keep quiet during the ride to the station I'd bet $100most suspects will NOT keep quiet for the entire ride. Most say SOMETHING during the ride to the officer...they can't help themselves. The best way to think is not what is or is not admissable..assume that EVERYTHING is admissable and you'll be more inclined to keep your mouth shut. Best advice is : #1. Be prepared ahead of time. Have the lawyers phone #'s make sure they're current. #2. Ask for an attorney and KEEP asking from EVERY cop you speak to. #3. Say ONLY what is necessary to say. Bare details.....you were in fear for your life and hand over your I.D. and license for your pistol and then.... #4. SHUT UP. #5 WHen calling your attorney make certain you are alone in the room and even if you're alone only say what is necessary over the phone. "I need you to come to the ___ pct because I'm under arrest and they're charging me with ______. NOT "I shot a guy and I need a lawyer." Thats what I've learned in a nutshell and what I will do. I know our resident experts will be along shortly as well. |
| You also need to be very careful what you say if you call 911. Remember all 911 calls are recorded. It may even be best to have someone else call 911 if possible as long as they know what to say/not say so that the sound of your voice cannot be used against you. |
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00, great write up, thanks.
You said one thing that jumped out at me from the show I didn't think seemed right, he said "I had to shoot her", and to TAP's point, he did in while calling 911. Pay taxes and die, that's what I have to do. I was in fear and I fired my weapon, that's what I did. Having to had done it is up to DKing to convince a jury of my peers. |
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Wow that's a lot of write up dude. I got my lawer's number on speed dail. lol. What if your phone gets broken,stolen,you don't have it,etc? I've got the number in my wallet and rolled up inside my flashlight and engraved onto a tab on my keyring. As well as programmed into my phone. My better half and my folks have it with instruction as well. You never know. Don't always count on having your phone. Remember....one is none,two is one and three is key 
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| The best defense is a committment to avoidance,deterrance and de-escalation. But if you are in fear for your life.....lethal force is an option. Just be prepared for the aftermath of your decisions. Situations will be different for all people.(ie:woman,elderly folk,handicapped/physically limitated,etc) |
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DKing and Malum......where arrrre you? Yes. Very interested. It really got me thinking about this. By standers. How do I handle that? What if a witness want to leave? Do I just let them or do I ask them to stay, realizing that at this point, "asking" would like be yelling, "stop, don't go anywhere". Have I now become a threat to the bystander that's gonna come back on me? STFU and let them leave is what I'm thinking. Same idea here. Someone wants to rush in and touch, move, alter, render aide to the person I just fired my weapon at. Do I let them? I'm certainly not going to touch them, but do I tell others not to or as above, have I now engaged bystanders in a threatening manner? |
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Reading this makes me think that I need Dking's contact info as well. If you haven't thought about what to say/do if you get in a situation, then you are way behind the 8 ball. In today's society, these preparations are as important as knowing how to operate your weapon. Not only is it important for you to have a plan, but I also suggest including family members and/or a good friend in your plans. I have been lucky enough to hear DKing speak a few times on the issue and it has helped me formulate a general plan for me and my family. |