Posted: 9/14/2004 10:07:12 PM EDT
|
Some of you know I am a CCW instructor. Well I got a nasty suprise today one of my students a durham county resedent came to me with the CCW application packet and he was not happy! In this packet was a requirment to get 5 NOTORIZED CHARACTER REFERANCES. This is not a state requirment and totaly defeats the purpose of hving a "Shall Issue" state CCW law. I called the Durham county sherrifs office of records who administeres the application and asked why this additional requirment was added and was told that it was a"State" requirment I asked for the statutew number and was promptly hung up on! Well I called back and politly asked again for the statute number and was given a supervisor and she told me what I already knew that it was in fact not a "State" requirment but something that the sherrif had added. I asked why this was being done and she said the sherrif had decided that anyone wanting a CCW permit that they needed to justify it to the sherrif and get the affidavits. When i explained politley that this exceeded his authourity and defied the "Shall Issue" provision she promtly told me I could "Tell It To The Sherrif" and he probably would not appreciate it and that the count legal advisor said it was ok he could do what he wanted!!!!!! I checked the DOJ state web sight on statistics for durham county and there are several thousand applications not approved or dissa pproved but in limbo this is total BULL SHIT!!!!!!!!! I have a call into the state doj lawyers now but don`t expect much help out of there office. anyone for a class action lawsuit? Red |
§ 14-415.13. Application for a permit; fingerprints. (a)A person shall apply to the sheriff of the county in which the person resides to obtain a concealed handgun permit. The applicant shall submit to the sheriff all of the following: (1) An application, completed under oath, on a form provided by the sheriff. (2) A nonrefundable permit fee. (3) A full set of fingerprints of the applicant administered by the sheriff. (4) An original certificate of completion of an approved course, adopted and distributed by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission, signed by the certified instructor of the course attesting to the successful completion of the course by the applicant which shall verify that the applicant is competent with a handgun and knowledgeable about the laws governing the carrying of a concealed handgun and the use of deadly force. (5) A release, in a form to be prescribed by the Administrative Office of the Courts, that authorizes and requires disclosure to the sheriff of any records concerning the mental health or capacity of the applicant. (b) The sheriff shall submit the fingerprints to the State Bureau of Investigation for a records check of State and national databases. The State Bureau of Investigation shall submit the fingerprints to the Federal Bureau of Investigation as necessary. The cost of processing the set of fingerprints shall be charged to an applicant as provided by G.S. 14-415.19. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, ss. 22.2(a), 22.1(b).) Anything that the Local LEOs outside of the above law is illegal. |
|
While you are at it, it would be worthwhile to take on the bullshit durham county registration. I lived there when I first got to NC and in order to "play nice" went ahead and registered the handguns I had at the time, knowing that I'd be moving in a year and was told I could take them out of registration. When I went back to take them out, I was told that I could only remove them from the list if I sold them!!! I don't even live in that F'n county anymore, and they won't take me off there list. It takes 3 signed affidavits to get a purchase permit, and you are limited to what... 4 total permits per year. It's a lot of bullshit. |
|
I can't believe that you guys find this strange. I was born and raised in Durham County. This county has seen an EXPLOSION of violent and drug related crime in the past 20 years. At one time it was the murder capital of the state. And you're amazed? If I recall correctly, Durham County gun registration has been challenged in the courts, struct down for being un-Constitutional, and then made law again. The reasoning was that even though it was being challenged again, it would be on the books until ruled un-Constitutional again. Add in the tons and tons of liberals that have moved here (SURELY not from the Northeast) our location close to Chape Hill, and what do you expect? There are tons and tons of other reasons that aren't politically correct for discussion that have contributed to this situation as well. I hate to tell you, but you're probably not going to get too far with your fight. The easiest way to get through it is to just provide what they ask for. By the time you expend the huge amount of energy trying to reason with them, you'll have found it was easier to just give them what they want. It will probably be faster as well. For what it's worth, all the major metropolitan areas in our great state are EXTREMELY liberal in their views towards guns and gun control. If you can get to the mountains or the coast, that is where the folks have the sensible views in regards to firearms. Best of luck to you, I sincerely hope you win your fight. -REAPER2502 |
|
Last time I looked, Durham County had a special exception made for them by the General Assembly in order to allow it. I have it in an old textbook somewhere. Give me some time and I'll see if I can look it up. I work with about 8 off duty law enforcement officers. They come from both the Durham City Police force or from the Durham County Sherriff's office. It is amazing how anti gun they are. Some of them are good 'ole boys like me that grew up out in the county and are still very anti gun. When I moved back up here after living on the coast for quite some time, I was very shocked at the attitude of law enforcement in this area. When I lived in New Hanover County, most law enforcement officers were VERY cool about gun ownership and a few of them even gave us suggestions on locations we could go and shoot and not be bothered. I used to even shoot regularly with a New Hanover County sheriff's deputy. Absolute cool dude. In Durham, things have become so bad in such a short time period that the city and county governements are both unable to cope with it. Not just the violent crime but the many facets of civil management. Most of these restricitions are like any type of gun control. Typical knee-jerk reactions when local gov't. doesn't know how to properly address the problem. I went downtown the other day to pick up a pistol purchase permit application. It requires two witness affidavits, and endorsement by a notary. After that and it has been turned in, I can expect to wait about 30-35 days until they approve it. I'm telling you, the central part of this state is like a huge yellow stripe of shame on this state. -REAPER2502 |
|
Hey guys, here is the link for NCGUN: probsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ncgun Just a little email list for CCW holders in NC |
|
We NC folks should start a legal fund. Any Lawyers willing to file the suit? 20 of us pitch in $100, that should get the court costs covered. Anyone want to do this? I'm in for $200. Edited to add: I live in Durham county. I do not hold a NC CCW, but hold them from VA and GA. I have taken the NC required CCW course and had planned on picking the paperwork up at the courthouse soon. I'm not sure I want to get 5 people alerted to the fact that I am applying for a CCW. Perception is reality and I'm rather private about my hobbies and decisions on personal protection. This really pisses me off. I'm now in for $500. MOD: Please move this thread to the legal forum. |
| I can't afford the full 100 but I'll still chip in. I used to live in Durham county and would love to see them challenged. And hey Ryan, if it comes to finding people to sign affidavits, I'll be happy to do it, Laura would too. I know a couple of the Tuesday night guys will do it also. |
|
Slacker, if an out of town NC CHL holder is good for a charachter witness, I'll be glad to make the drive for you. You're right, we don't need to let everyone know what our hobbies and beliefs are. I'll chip in a few $$$ for legal representation, also. It chaps my ass when I walk into the lobby of Surry County's Sheriff's Orifice, and see a binder on the counter labeled "CHL Licensees". Yep, it's in the lobby, for all the world to thumb through. Any criminal in the world can walk in and thumb through the book, no questions asked.  Another flaw in the law that needs to be changed! While I'm on a roll, here's some other things I think need to be changed in the CHL Laws. 1. I should be able to carry into an event where admission is charged. 2. I should be able to carry into establishments where alcohol is served. 3. I should be able to carry when having a BAC under the legal limit for operating a motor vehicle. Give me a break.  4. I should be able to carry in a Financial Institution. 5. I should be able to carry at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions. 6. I should be able to carry in areas of emergencies or riots. Give me another break. Where would you more likely need to defend yourself or another law abiding citizen? We can't carry lawfully at a riot? This is just wrong. We're the good guys, dammit! 7. And come off the price of renewal. Here's where I got my "bitching points" And no, I'm not a bit sorry for the weak excuse for a rant. Something needs to be done. |
| I'd like to add to the list of bitch points, that I should be able to carry on educational property. AT LEAST outside of the buildings. There are roads that I'm not allowed to drive on while carrying, because they are owned by the university, say nothing of the parking decks. Out of towners really need to watch there step in Chapel Hell. |
This is why I have not gotten a CHL. You can't carry most places. |
Only Durham and Chapel Hill. Permits in Wake County are easy. Show up to the sheriffs office, bring your driver's license, fill out a form, make sure you check applying for 5 permits :-), wait a week, pay $25 and get your permits. Used to have to bring a person to vouch for you, no more. |
This is why I think you should be a .. well, you know... Where did the NC Concealed Carry Law originate? Who wrote the draft? <-- Serious questions! A 30 year veteran of my local SO told me that "his County" was the one that "wrote the original draft of the NC CHL law" that's on the books. Amazing, [cough]bullshit[/cough]Who drafted the original? |
Thats not for me. I don't have the right mentality. 
I don't know who drafted the original. It shouldn't be hard to find out. |
There were five different concealed carry bills introduced during the 1995 legislative session. The one that finally passed, after numerous amendments, was originally introduced by former Rep. John Nichols of Craven County. Nichols did not draft the bill. Most bills in the NC House are drafted by staff members of the House Bill Drafting Office, based on input from the bill sponsor. Nichols had a list of items and requirements he wanted the bill to contain; he left the rest up to the Bill Drafting staff. The original bill was a nightmare. The current law is good by comparison to the first draft. |
|
Dear Slacker, I tried to reach you via e-mail but the one showing bounced mail back. I'm in Charlotte and have a Florida CCW from when I lived in NJ. Can you shoot me an e-mail? I also don;t want to ask 5 people to know my business and the answer that I got from LE about the validity of my Florida permit while being soley a NC resident was basically "we're not sure." The cops on the beat that I have spoken to have not been aware of the reciprocity law signed by the AG and one PD asked if they could keep a copy of the letter as they were all under the impression that only a NC permit is valid in NC. Thanks, Steve |
|
Buddy in Wake got his CCW permit after 9 days, he was gloating about it. Also, what would happen if I was a NC resident, which I am, and got a Florida CCW but no NC CCW permit. NC recognizes Florida CCW right, so if caught with a FL permit in NC what would happen? Just curious. |
|
Xring, I hate to tell you but Worth Hill has been pulling crap like that for years. It's one of the reasons when I moved back into the area from down east I wouldn't even consider Durham county or Orange.I don't think you are going to go very far with this. Durham has a special consideration in the NC law that let's it dodge state preemption on the gun registration thing. Dates back to the 30's as I recall. CH, Carrborro and the rest just pretend the State Preemption doesn't exist when they pass these "no carry" and other anti-gun statues. They are correct in their thinking that no one individual is going to have the time/money/determination to fight it all the way.  Remember, in NC the sheriffs have literally been able to run their own little fiefdoms making up the rules as they go along. They can add restrictions or charge what they want for all sorts of little gun fees and nothing much is ever done about it. When I was in Pitt county the fee for handgun permits went from $5 to $20 overnight one week because the then sheriff want to build his own 'training range' for his boys and aquire some new toys.  NC has it's good points and it's bad points. The ancient feudal "high sheriff" system is one of the bad, just in case anyone is wondering.  You want to change things or at least hang on to what you can? Remember the Dems control the state gubbermint again and the liberal bastions are growing with imports everyday. The bigger cities and counties have the money and they will rul  e!http://www.grnc.org/ |
|
>>It chaps my ass when I walk into the lobby of Surry County's Sheriff's Orifice, and see a binder on the counter labeled "CHL Licensees". Yep, it's in the lobby, for all the world to thumb through. Any criminal in the world can walk in and thumb through the book, no questions asked. << Hello Gentlemen, I hate to admit this, but I grew up in NYC and moved to NJ when I was 28. We left NJ 18 months ago and part of the reason was that if you want to live free you must live amongst people who wish to be free. Toss in that the exchange I worked on - but have been out on a hearing disability from - was knocked down on 9/11 and I wanted out of the NYC area which has become Calcutta on the Hudson. I will not forgive these people nor will I forget as a good friend of mine, who was the salt of the earth, died that day and a guy I worked with a lot on procurement in Little League jumped. As to the above, the NJ Star Ledger was lobbying to pass a law where they could publish the addresses of all gun owners in the state. What a brilliant idea! Let's tell the robbers what homes have guns and what don't. It even tops serial numbers on bullets that I believe Moynihan wanted, or maybe he just wanted to ban bullets because the Constitution didn't say anthing about them. I'm guessing that many, if not all, here know that the rate of occupancy for a burglary in England, Canada, and the other places where guns are prohibited is around 50% while it is 10% in the US due to gun ownership. But The Star Ledger of NJ want to, in effect, place "Gun Free Home" on all homes with their communist desires. I know that "liberal yankees" take a beating here. Hell, I'd like to beat them too. And on my way I'd take Bush to the woodshed and ask just what the hell he thinks he's doing? $50 million for an inauguration and we're at war. I am please to be an independent. If I had to say I found a soul mate in Charlotte it would be Jason Lewis on WBT. I want less government and it's primary job should be to ensure my rights and our "Borders. Language, and Culture." That said, I worked for 17 frustrating years writing 4 to 6 letters a year to the liberal rag paper at the NJ Shore with the largest readership as well as writing state officials repeatedly. I started right after an attempted robbery in NYC where without a gun, I foolishly decided I was not handing over anything to three drug addicts. It was foolish as I had my wife with me also. I might be 6'1" but that means Jack to seasoned criminals with knives, chains, or worse. Angels, as far as I'm concerned, appeared out of nowhere and we escaped. I purchased a Beretta 92 FSC six weeks later and my father in-law, who was a 1st Grade NYC Detective, taught me to shoot. What did I accomplish writing letters? Nothing...absolutely nothing. When a governor who is known to be a closet homosexual by many rank and file cops gets elected and he has the single veto over Constitutional rights, the citizenry is screwed. And I really don't care what he is, but when they have sordid activities they can be bribed. James Madison said we deserve to know every intimate detail of the private lives of our elected officials in return for the power we give to them. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I just wanted to take the opportunity to say that not all people from the North East are anti-gun. Most are just ambivilent and ignorant of the issue. That the liberal rag Asbury Park Press - the paper of record for the NJ Shore - allowed me to write pro-gun letters was astonishing to me. They had guest editorials where they were soliciting people to write once a month on issues but despite being invited once to a breakfast, they declined to accept my offer. I have spoken in the past with Dave Kopel of the Cato and Independence Institute and I see now that he has penned a paper with a Dr. Paul Gallant, who is an optometrist a few hours above NYC. When I used to hand out flyers with the real gun info he sent me templates of what he had used in Rockland County. I had a PO Box at the time and must have placed 500 under windshields offering more info if contacted. Not one single response requesting more information. We would see a national CCW and NJ would still vote against it. Is it Lincoln of P.T. Barnum I paraphrase when I say, "No one ever went broke underestimating the apathy of the American Public"? My apologies for this introductory rant. I just wasn't aware that a "shall issue state" really was a "I shall issue if and when I feel like it" and that you'd need to be inconvenienced to exercise a Constitutional right. Steve in Charlotte, NC p.s. If you read this far, please take a few moments to look at a webspace I set up with pictures from some Marines I helped in Afghanistan. It turns out that they are out of Camp Lejune and a few should be visiting me in about a month. At the site www.anysoldier.com you can pick out a unit requesting help. What they need most are letters of support. If you can get a few people to put $250 worth of items from Costco together for a unit of about 50-60 they will think the world of you as a stranger helping them is truly a friend to them. Some requests are for things to pass the time. I picked a combat unit at the Afghan-Pakistani border who were out hunting Taliban insurgents. I didn't know this at the time but guessed it when they said the Px is often out of things when they return. They signed a flag for me and I am honored to have it hang in my den. http://home.earthlink.net/~stevec927/ |
|
My buddy who was a Royal Marine who served in Afganistan and Iraq, and I had a similar conversation the other day. we agreed and I want to share my thoughts on the whole anti-gun movement in general. I believe people are either sheep or wolves. Americans, are becoming more and more sheep. They follow more then they think, and will not look past any issue beyond instant gratification. Sheep have no initiative, self confidence, or inventiveness. They want safety in numbers, they want to be told when to eat, sleep, and defecate. They think their responsibility to their community ends with the straight party vote every four years and the taxes paid from their check every week or two. They like big government because they feel they are entitled to something free and clear. Sheep are not independent thinkers. They want safety, and safety in numbers. Sheep do not want you to own a gun because if you are not like them you are a wolf. Wolves can operate in packs or alone. Wolves plan, and adapt to change. Wolves may fight amongst themselves, but will defend the pack. Gun ownership leads to training, independence, and fellowship. Gunownership is an art, building rifles from a kit or reloading is a science. It isn't for everyone, but neither is driving. The main ingredient is that Firearm ownership leads to thinking, or logic. Logic leads to independent thought. You think for your self. I know some sheep that I consider to be good people, I also know some that are evil and devious. The same can be said for wolves. Some are good some are bad. These are all generalizations, but hopefully you understand the gist of the post. jumping off the soap box! |
Preach, Brother, Preach!!! It is my opinion (and only that) that the Durham County Sherriff is breaking NC law...in a shall issue state, it is my understanding that no one shall be denied that meets the states requirements, not the counties...therefore by taking the required class, and passing all SBI, criminal, and mental health checks, you cannot be denied a right to carry. But, then again, I also believe that the 2nd and 4th amendments made a permit to carry illegal as well...just my $.02 |