[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Basic Training - Time behind a gun (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/5/2013 2:37:03 PM EDT
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Subject of "how much time a person gets in basic training behind a gun" came up at the water cooler today and none of us have any strong reference other than "a guy I knew once".
I know there are a lot of vets in this forum who might be able to answer it. How much time did you have, in just regular basic training, in using a pistol / rifle? Does it differ between branches of service? |
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Subject of "how much time a person gets in basic training behind a gun" came up at the water cooler today and none of us have any strong reference other than "a guy I knew once". I know there are a lot of vets in this forum who might be able to answer it. How much time did you have, in just regular basic training, in using a pistol / rifle? Does it differ between branches of service? Speaking as an Army vet, we only had rifle / AT4 training. No one even sees a handgun until AIT and that's only if your job requires it. We carried our weapons ( rifles ) for about 4-5 weeks. 2 of those weeks was nothing but familiarization, shooting ( day and night ), and qualifying. By weeks I mean 5am wake up 9 pm lights out. Things may have changed since I was in from 92-99. |
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Ha! Army basic training? hahahaha.
I sat down one night and figured it out with some guys that were in the Marines. The Marines shoot a lot more than the Army I think. Zeroing. 6 rounds. You are given 9 rounds... But they would not let me shoot the last 3. ( bastards ) 3 range trips where we shot about 20 rounds a trip. M60 range. 20 rounds. LAW. 1 round. TOE 1 round. Grenade 1. Night fire. 14 rounds. Pre-Qualification 40 rounds. Qualification 40 rounds. So about 160 rounds. of 5.56 maybe a tad more. |
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Ha! Army basic training? hahahaha. I sat down one night and figured it out with some guys that were in the Marines. The Marines shoot a lot more than the Army I think. Zeroing. 6 rounds. You are given 9 rounds... But they would not let me shoot the last 3. ( bastards ) 3 range trips where we shot about 20 rounds a trip. M60 range. 20 rounds. LAW. 1 round. TOE 1 round. Grenade 1. Night fire. 14 rounds. Pre-Qualification 40 rounds. Qualification 40 rounds. So about 160 rounds. of 5.56 maybe a tad more. Not sure on that. Going by what you posted as what you ( person shot ), I fired more. Could be service differences or different eras. I don't know. We didn't have tows or laws, but had more ammo for training,zero, night fire, and qual. Marines also qual @ 500 yards, correct? Army is targets from 50-300. EDIT: Real grenades are awesome, aren't they.  Unlike the fake movie stuff.
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I have a friend finished up OSUT at Benning in December. He said they didn't shoot too much, no pistol at all. A big surprise was they did not learn BRM with irons, they went straight to the M68 and qualified with them.
I would ask him some more details about it but he's in SOPC right now. Wish him luck at selection next month. |
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Not sure on that. Going by what you posted as what you ( person shot ), I fired more. Could be service differences or different eras. I don't know. We didn't have tows or laws, but had more ammo for training,zero, night fire, and qual. Marines also qual @ 500 yards, correct? Army is targets from 50-300. EDIT: Real grenades are awesome, aren't they. Unlike the fake movie stuff.
That was Army Basic at Ft. Leonard MO back in the summer of 1988. I'm pretty sure about the round count. We did not see our rifles for the first 2 weeks. Then we carried them every where but almost never shot them. I loved firing the LAW. Got to fire some more in Desert Storm ( Just not at anyone ). The TOE was very cool but actually gave me a bloody nose. The M60 sucked because as soon as I pressed the trigger the rest of the belt cooked off. Only got to fire 6 shots during zero because my rifle was nails on from the last guy. Lots of practice grenades but only one real one. I don't even think I touched a firearm in AIT. When I got to my unit I qualified for the M203 so that was what I had in Desert Storm. Loved launching grenades. I got in so much trouble. Right after the ground war I decided to just use up the 40mm grenades I had. So when I got back to my unit. The first sergeant freaked out told me he was taking them out of my pay and then sent me to get more. So couple days later I launched those at old bunkers. When my First Sergent yelled at me the second time and asked what I was thinking. I told him I figured I could afford it since I have bought nothing but smokes and batteries in the last 9 months. |
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That was Army Basic at Ft. Leonard MO back in the summer of 1988. I'm pretty sure about the round count. We did not see our rifles for the first 2 weeks. Then we carried them every where but almost never shot them. I loved firing the LAW. Got to fire some more in Desert Storm ( Just not at anyone ). The TOE was very cool but actually gave me a bloody nose. The M60 sucked because as soon as I pressed the trigger the rest of the belt cooked off. Only got to fire 6 shots during zero because my rifle was nails on from the last guy. Lots of practice grenades but only one real one. I don't even think I touched a firearm in AIT. When I got to my unit I qualified for the M203 so that was what I had in Desert Storm. Loved launching grenades. I got in so much trouble. Right after the ground war I decided to just use up the 40mm grenades I had. So when I got back to my unit. The first sergeant freaked out told me he was taking them out of my pay and then sent me to get more. So couple days later I launched those at old bunkers. When my First Sergent yelled at me the second time and asked what I was thinking. I told him I figured I could afford it since I have bought nothing but smokes and batteries in the last 9 months. 
I went to Knox for basic. Summer of 92. Same thing, no rifles for the first few weeks. Not sure on count, but I remember 2 grenades. As I cooked off my first one and the DS tossed my second. DS smoked me for that one  . 2-3 20 round mags for night fire. Not sure on M60, but I still have some spent blanks/links that I took home from basic. ( yes I know, that was a no no ). We had NBC fire of 40, zero was 18, pre qual ( I don't recall ), qual 40, AT4 1 live and 1 blank.
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Quoted: Ha! Army basic training? hahahaha. I sat down one night and figured it out with some guys that were in the Marines. The Marines shoot a lot more than the Army I think. Zeroing. 6 rounds. You are given 9 rounds... But they would not let me shoot the last 3. ( bastards ) 3 range trips where we shot about 20 rounds a trip. M60 range. 20 rounds. LAW. 1 round. TOE 1 round. Grenade 1. Night fire. 14 rounds. Pre-Qualification 40 rounds. Qualification 40 rounds. So about 160 rounds. of 5.56 maybe a tad more. Good lord, I think I got more than that rolling around in the bottom of my range bag... |
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Ha! Army basic training? hahahaha. I sat down one night and figured it out with some guys that were in the Marines. The Marines shoot a lot more than the Army I think. Zeroing. 6 rounds. You are given 9 rounds... But they would not let me shoot the last 3. ( bastards ) 3 range trips where we shot about 20 rounds a trip. M60 range. 20 rounds. LAW. 1 round. TOE 1 round. Grenade 1. Night fire. 14 rounds. Pre-Qualification 40 rounds. Qualification 40 rounds. So about 160 rounds. of 5.56 maybe a tad more. Good lord, I think I got more than that rolling around in the bottom of my range bag... That may be, but after you graduated basic, you could field strip and reassemble an M16 while sleeping ( yes we slept with our weapons for 3/4 of basic ). I have not shot/handled an AR since 99 and I'm pretty sure I can still field strip, assemble, and function check one with the quickness. I think I got an old basic photo of me around here. Here's my ugly ass. 
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BCT in '04 we had a whole week of BRM. Grouping/Zeroning, Practice Ranges, and Qual.
We had one day of M249, M240, M203, and AT4. One day of Grenade Dummy Round Qual Course and one Live Grenade Qual. Wasn't until Pre-Mob at Bragg in '07 that I was able to fire M9, M2, MK19. |
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BCT in '04 we had a whole week of BRM. Grouping/Zeroning, Practice Ranges, and Qual. We had one day of M249, M240, M203, and AT4. One day of Grenade Dummy Round Qual Course and one Live Grenade Qual. Wasn't until Pre-Mob at Bragg in '07 that I was able to fire M9, M2, MK19. Mk19, my second favorite weapon behind the Ma Deuce. |
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Do the zoomies even get to see a live gun? Security Forces and the such. EDIT: Just asked in the MIL section and this is what I got: PJs( para rescue ), CCT( combat control team ), Combat WX are the first that come to mind. In other words most of the Zoomies don't use them, but the one who do, their qual times differ from the Army every 6 months. Some AF folks qual at 6 months, 12 months,15 months, 2 years. |
| I forgot to add that in '05 some Army training (mostly BCT, AIT, WLC ect.) added in Weapons Immersion. Trainees carried their weapons 24/7. Outdoors Trainees would be on Amber Status (IIRC) with Blanks, when going indoors trainees would have to go to the clearing barrel. Any trainee that negligently discharged their weapon would receive an Article 15. This was to make the clearing barrel procedures second nature and save the rest of us from morons while enjoying our Surf and Turf Fridays overseas. |
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Well, for me I shot around 6,000 round in basic and AIT. over the last 10 years 100,000+ rounds. Got to love having to qualifiy and use the m4, m9, m249, m240b, m2, mk19, AT4, claymore, shotgun.
I was given ample time behnd a firearm in training. Not sure about other MOS's or branches |
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Do the zoomies even get to see a live gun? Security Forces and the such. EDIT: Just asked in the MIL section and this is what I got: PJs( para rescue ), CCT( combat control team ), Combat WX are the first that come to mind. In other words most of the Zoomies don't use them, but the one who do, their qual times differ from the Army every 6 months. Some AF folks qual at 6 months, 12 months,15 months, 2 years. I was security forces for 5 years before I cross trained. We got quite a bit of m9m4 training. Every 6 months we had to qual if I remember. |
| Went through the AF BMT 81. Spent about half of a day learning about the weapon along with stripping it down. In part to clean and in part to deny the weapon to the enemy. Then I think the next day we spent all of 40 or so minutes qualifying. Two mags of .22LR, 5 rnds each. Suppose to use it to zero the weapon. Knuckle head next to me shot his first 5 into my target. Just my luck the red hat checked my target first and he gave me an ass chewing. Till he checked on the next target. Barely got a sorry for that one. Think we shot a total of 50 rounds. The last 40 where for strong hand and weak hand barracks, prone, kneeling and sitting. Did it two more times over a 5 yr active and 3 yr FANG tour. All of them were the M16A1 and amazed that the bolt didnt turn sideways in the receiver. This rifles where just plain worn out. It was not till I bought my own AR15 that I got to shoot the real round. One of my ARs is a bastard. A little of this and a little of that. I have the Delta hand guards on this one. |
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Ha! Army basic training? hahahaha.
I sat down one night and figured it out with some guys that were in the Marines. The Marines shoot a lot more than the Army I think. Zeroing. 6 rounds. You are given 9 rounds... But they would not let me shoot the last 3. ( bastards ) 3 range trips where we shot about 20 rounds a trip. M60 range. 20 rounds. LAW. 1 round. TOE 1 round. Grenade 1. Night fire. 14 rounds. Pre-Qualification 40 rounds. Qualification 40 rounds. So about 160 rounds. of 5.56 maybe a tad more. Shot your toe off? |
| AF 1971, Lackland AFB, TX. One day at the range with what had to have been an original AR15. No FA, brown furniture, the finish was almost gone. I'm figuring these were some of the first Armalite rifles the AF had acquired, of course at that time I didn't know diddly squat about an AR-15/M-16, but that's what got me infected with BRD. They let us run about 60 rounds of 5.56 through them. It's was the only highlight of basic! |
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I went OSUT at Fort Leonard Wood in 1989 and we would shoot 160 rounds or more in one day at the range. I guess it depended on your MOS on how much range time you got. Being an engineer, we got plenty of range time. The only thing I didn't get to shoot during basic was a pistol. |
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AF 1971, Lackland AFB, TX. One day at the range with what had to have been an original AR15. No FA, brown furniture, the finish was almost gone. I'm figuring these were some of the first Armalite rifles the AF had acquired, of course at that time I didn't know diddly squat about an AR-15/M-16, but that's what got me infected with BRD. They let us run about 60 rounds of 5.56 through them. It's was the only highlight of basic! You are pretty lucky to have gotten to fire a piece of history like that! |
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AF 1971, Lackland AFB, TX. One day at the range with what had to have been an original AR15. No FA, brown furniture, the finish was almost gone. I'm figuring these were some of the first Armalite rifles the AF had acquired, of course at that time I didn't know diddly squat about an AR-15/M-16, but that's what got me infected with BRD. They let us run about 60 rounds of 5.56 through them. It's was the only highlight of basic! You are pretty lucky to have gotten to fire a piece of history like that! Didn't realize it at the time. Hopefully when/if all of the frenzy dies down a bit I'm wanting to put a Retro together similar to that rifle, of course it will be from my foggy memory. I got injured in 72 and the AF discharged me, I bought a Colt SP1 soon after I got home, unfortunately it's been long gone, had to sell it to pay some damned taxes in 79 
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In the Marine Corps we had two weeks on the rifle. We spent a little time going over the other weapons but only a few actually got to shoot them. We sure carried the rifles everywhere though. Pretty much the same in 1990 and according to my father in 1948 as well so the US Marine Corps hasn't changed much. Also if one failed to qualify with the rifle they were sent home. |
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At AMEDD Officer's Basic, we practiced for 1 week in the field. We started at the electronic range for weapons familiarization. Then went to the 25-300 meter range for zeroing - fired approx. 12 rounds. Pre-qual shot 36/40 and qual shot 36/40.
M9 range familiarization fired approx. 10 rounds and during qual hit 29/30. So about 122 rounds total between the M16 and M9. As AMEDD Officer's, we didn't practice with any other weapon system or ordinance. |
| I was AF security back in the early seventies. After qualifying once in basic at MOS school we had to qualify with revolvers, rifle and shotgun. Before being stationed outside of CONUS we had to qualify with M-60, M-79 , M-203 and did night fire with M-16 both semi and full auto. Some of the guys had to stay longer for 81MM mortar school. Had to learn tactics for assaults and deploying from APCs burning up a ton of blanks. At the base in Thailand we had two mortar pits and several APC's. The first sergeant gave us each 500 rounds to burn up with the M-60 on the beach shooting at 50 gallon drums which was qualification. In Germany everyone carried both revolvers and M-16's and qualified. Later they took away the handguns and issued M-60's and M-203's but we never had to qualify with them. |
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Well, for me I shot around 6,000 round in basic and AIT. over the last 10 years 100,000+ rounds. Got to love having to qualifiy and use the m4, m9, m249, m240b, m2, mk19, AT4, claymore, shotgun. I was given ample time behnd a firearm in training. Not sure about other MOS's or branches I find this post, highly unlikely.
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Army 2006-
Weapons immersion was in full swing with TRADOC. All IET Soldiers were issues their M16A2s within 48hrs of being assigned to their Basic Combat Training units after reception. Those rifles were carried all the time. If you had down time, you were expected to clean your rifle, regardless of whether or not it was dirty. In the evenings, after scheduled training, we would spend a lot of time in the basic marksmanship qualification positions with canteens hanging off the barrels. I can't really estimate how many rounds we fired. There was a grouping and zeroing day. There was a day where we practiced on a range that had a feedback system that showed us where on or relative to the target we were hitting. There was a regular qualification day. There were also days that we ran through some live fire combat drills. There were reflexive fire scenarios where we stood and shot pop up targets at close range. There was a buddy-bounding range on which we would take turns advancing while your "battle buddy" was shooting. There was a nightime defense range where we stood in foxholes and shot tracers at targets with chem lights on them. There was even a convoy defense range where we rode in the back of a 5ton and rested our rifles on the rails shooting at popup targets as we bounced around a rough trail covered in broken A2 handguards. That was all individual rifle only. There were familiarization ranges where we fired M203s, M249, M240Bs, M2s, and AT4 trainers. Most MOSs do not see M9s in training. |
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I think this all depends on the branch, MOS, duty station, CONUS or overseas. I was reading the other's posts and amazed at the small number of rounds fired.
Army 11B (Infantry) ... we fired a bunch. I can't remember exactly how much, but it could be several 1,000's with all the different ranges ... Basic Rifle and Qualification, Target Acquisition, Defensive Position, Night Fire, Team Movement and Bounding. Mostly with M16 rifles. Just several hundred rounds with M60, only like 20-30 M2, and few live M203 rounds with 12 chalk and smoke, and only a few magazines on 1911. Once I got to my unit in Germany, we had a live fire range on our LTA. We shot all the time, still using up mostly Vietnam era ammo, if memory serves me right. We fired up lots of M2 on ranges down south when we had M113 APCs. We were switching to Bradleys (BFV) when I got out. I only got to play with those for a few months, but went through plenty 25mm, M240 ammo and got to shoot one live TOW and several practice (no explosive) rounds. I was a driver and didn't get to play as much as the others. Drivers had to go through all the driving, maintenance and PMC stuff. Still was a hoot! Somebody's got to get them there! No wars for me. Anyway, that was in the mid-late 80's in the Reagan Era. Cold War and Terrorist Threat (like the "Red Army Faction") was still a great factor. I know they went through cuts in Bush's Presidency when the Cold War threat was, basically , no longer. President Clinton (just trying to be respectful) cut the hell out of military budget and live fire has never been the same since. God Bless our Troops, Fought and Fallen, Who Has and Those Who Will Serve Our Country in Any Branch, Any MOS, Where or Whenever. |
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USAF Basic Training
Rifle training was one day. One Day... 40 rounds for practice, and 40 rounds for Record. 38 of 40 required for Expert. After arriving at my duty station I had to immediately requalify, then twice a year after that. I also was required to qualify with the M9, M249, M203, M60 as well as a few other items. Night work as well as LOTS of training with MILES and other Force on Force systems. No mortars for me though. But I did get to use Airplanes..... 
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Can't remember myself but back in 86 we fired a fair amount. Of course I was a 19E (M60A3 Armor Crewman) and our job was to shoot people and stuff so maybe we got more.
We trained and qualified with the M16A1, M3A1 and M1911 (those were some old raggedy warhorses but they still worked damn well) and later we transitioned to the M9 and played with those too. Of course we fired the craptacular M85 .50 cupola machine gun and the M249 coax too. Oh, and the big boy, the 105mm main gun. Of course that was a team effort. I wasn't into guns back then, I didn't appreciate what I got to do until years later. BTW, firing the main gun really is better than sex.... One night I pulled guard at the range. There was one of those rifle simulators there. I had a lot of fun that night playing "kill everything in sight"
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GaryM, if you thought the 105 was fun, try the 165mm gun on the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle. That was fun with the HEP round, almost as fun as shooting off a live MICLIC charge. I shot a lot with the M16A1 during basic but was mostly issued the M60 for most of my time in the Army. |
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All these vets in here with no tanks. Not wanting to join the darkside of ARFcom? Whatchu want Willis? I'd have to sit back and actually think about how many we fired, but I'm feeding the baby right now, so maybe later. Just noticing a lot of vets here and most of them don't have tanks. I was just curious why. How is the little one doing? |
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GaryM, if you thought the 105 was fun, try the 165mm gun on the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle. That was fun with the HEP round, almost as fun as shooting off a live MICLIC charge. I shot a lot with the M16A1 during basic but was mostly issued the M60 for most of my time in the Army. Nothing beats a 50 Cal on the Deuce and a half rings while going 50 mph. ( 50 was the max speed ). |
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Quoted: Quoted: GaryM, if you thought the 105 was fun, try the 165mm gun on the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle. That was fun with the HEP round, almost as fun as shooting off a live MICLIC charge. I shot a lot with the M16A1 during basic but was mostly issued the M60 for most of my time in the Army. Nothing beats a 50 Cal on the Deuce and a half rings while going 50 mph. ( 50 was the max speed ). Except maybe firing Ma Deuce from a moving M113. I probably shot more rounds from a M16 during Basic and AIT than I did the rest of the time in the Army. Being one of the skinny guys, I always got stuck with the M60 and a pistol. |
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Ok, know just enough to be dangerous. TOW vs M47, Are they both guided via a wire? And please refresh my memory what does T.O.W. stand for? Thinking it is something like Targeting On Wire, but that just does not sound right. Correct. Both are wire guided. TOW= Tube-launched Optically-tracked Wire-guided missile |
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Ok, know just enough to be dangerous. TOW vs M47, Are they both guided via a wire? And please refresh my memory what does T.O.W. stand for? Thinking it is something like Targeting On Wire, but that just does not sound right. Correct. Both are wire guided. TOW= Tube-launched Optically-tracked Wire-guided missile Now thats a mouth full. Think we will just stay with TOW. Ok, now the dragon I think was a tank buster (main purpose). What was the main purpose of the TOW? Lighter armored stuff, and maybe anti-personal? Just some guesses on my part. I remember seeing all of this stuff at some point in time, but that was what feels like another life, long, long time ago. Thanks for the reply Stitches |
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I went through Knox in 93. Got sick with pneumonia when BRM started and was in the hospital for most of it. I had sighted in right handed (I'm really left handed). Then shot at 3 pop ups in an open field before getting sick. Got out of the hospital sighted in again right handed and qualified 1st time out Marksman (no idea what I was thinking shooting right handed) with all the guys that were Bolo's (couldn't qual on the 1st day). I was suprised to see the qualification range. Hills and trees and hidden targets. IIRC qualification was 40rds total. Finished Basic and went to Jackson for AIT - Heavy Wheel Vehicle Mechanic then went straight to the reserves.
Shot left handed for qualification in the Reserves. We were given a new rifle everytime... Shot Expert left handed. |