Posted: 7/24/2012 10:39:46 PM EDT
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Colt won the Marine Corps Close Quarter Battle Pistol contract
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/07/20/marines-pick-colt-for-new-pistol.html?comp=700001075741&rank=1 |
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Well, it is a 1911, so...  You have a point . There are better options today . There are certainly better options today.....:rolleyes. You glock fanboys have no real clue. For mass produced Tupperware Glocks aren't bad but I've had squirt guns with a better trigger pull, and held cordless drills with a better grip. Granted the Gen 4 did make the grip less two x four ish. |
| The guns with the cracked frames were from a test group, not ISSUED guns and were tested to failure, with no maintenance i.e. spring changes and PMCS, and the cracks first appeared at about 20,000 rounds and were pressed onward to total failure. and only 4 of the test group experienced this issue the others were not tested to failure. |
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The guns with the cracked frames were from a test group, not ISSUED guns and were tested to failure, with no maintenance i.e. spring changes and PMCS, and the cracks first appeared at about 20,000 rounds and were pressed onward to total failure. and only 4 of the test group experienced this issue the others were not tested to failure. My Bad  , Arent recoil springs on a 1911 the part that when it fails, it just becomes a matter of when instead of if?
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Well, it is a 1911, so... You have a point . There are better options today . There are certainly better options today.....:rolleyes. You glock fanboys have no real clue. For mass produced Tupperware Glocks aren't bad but I've had squirt guns with a better trigger pull, and held cordless drills with a better grip. Granted the Gen 4 did make the grip less two x four ish. He never mentioned a thing about Glocks... Way to jump to conclusions. 
We ARE talking about a design that's over 100 years old, here. Some improvements have been made in the last CENTURY to the concept of semiautomatic handguns. The problem here was that MARSOC basically stated that they wanted a 1911, without coming forth and saying so. If they would have thrown out the single-stack requirement, a whole new world of possibilities would open up to them. Semi-automatic, .45 ACP caliber. Single stack magazine must hold at least 7 rounds. It is desirable that the pistol function with the Marine Corps .45 ACP 7-round magazine (NSN 1005-01-373-2774) used in the current MEUSOC pistol. Pistol must have an accessory rail meeting MIL-STD-1913 specifications to mount accessories. It must have a grip safety and an ambidextrous manual safety which are operable by users wearing cold weather and NBC gloves. It has dull, non reflective surfaces and uses standard military colors. It must lock the slide or bolt to the rear after the last round in the magazine is fired. It has a beveled magazine well to facilitate rapid loading. The pistol has a lanyard loop attachment point.
Above from: Link Note that the link takes you to fbo.gov 
Some 1911's are great. Some are not. This particular Colt is, well, not. Guns 11, 12, 14 and 15 (1-10 were not fire tested) fired 12,000 rounds before being deadlined due to visible safety-critical cracks found in the slides. Each slide had cracks in the same location, but they varied in size.
Here's the thread from GD that shows these things falling apart. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1346707_Test_Article_Photos_of_MARSOC_Winning_Colt_Rail_Guns__should_have_went_glock__.html |
I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use 
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? |
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use One of their, "desirables," was that it used the 7 rd mag that they currently have for MEUSOC. USP's, FNP 45, and a whole host of other excellent pistols fit every necessary criteria except single stack. Why they limited themselves like that, I don't know. |
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? 
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. |
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The Marines have never been a fan of the 9mm which I suspect is the reason for the single stack requirement for the magazine. Someone was being creative in writing the specifications to replace the older 1911s. Remember fellas that the military has to use ball ammunition for combat. The .45 ACP hits a little harder than a 9mm when one has to remove modern expandable bullets from the equation. Quoted:
I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? 
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Its for the military. You know nothing is more reliable and durable then a Glock. Ok maybe one of the other striker fire variants. Plus you have the easy take down for field cleaning.
Someone was doing Colt a favor. We had the Beretta when I was in the Army. They usually stayed in the armory |
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Its for the military. You know nothing is more reliable and durable then a Glock. Ok maybe one of the other striker fire variants. Plus you have the easy take down for field cleaning. Someone was doing Colt a favor. We had the Beretta when I was in the Army. They usually stayed in the armory 
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Its all about back door deals. Give me a break. Everyone know the military should be carrying Glocks. I thought that the military were issued Glocks. Aren't they referred to as the M67? 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round.  You shut your filthy whore mouth! |
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!
Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod...
Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard. |
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Quoted: Forgive me, I'm a bit jaded as my first handgun purchase was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm ACP pistol. In fact I own three 10mm's and three .40's so I kinda like the "compromise" caliber. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod... Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard.  |
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Forgive me, I'm a bit jaded as my first handgun purchase was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm ACP pistol. In fact I own three 10mm's and three .40's so I kinda like the "compromise" caliber. Quoted:
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!
Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod...
Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard.
10mm? Is that like the European version of the .40?
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It depends on if its the 1911 i've been hearing about that will shoot 40,000 rounds without cleaning, or failure or if its the one that jams under 500 rounds in a competition. Personally I would prefer a Glock over the 1911 due to the ease of maintenance, function, parts replacement, reliability. Government is bad about going with the lowest bidder for GI shit. If your SF the world is your oyster in most cases.
Then again what do i know, im just a greedy, self indulgent, dangerous, NRA Training Counselor that only focuses on making money and not the public safety....
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To be honest for Infantry the pistol seemed impractical anyway. You have a squad of high power weapons and the M16 was our close quarter combat weapon. Who wants to break out a 9mm when you have 5.56
Now military police and non front line computer combatants I can see the need I have nothing against a 1911 and want to get a nice one to add to the collection but I don't see heavy set guys on youtube shooting 1911's under water like you do with the Glock!
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To be honest for Infantry the pistol seemed impractical anyway. You have a squad of high power weapons and the M16 was our close quarter combat weapon. Who wants to break out a 9mm when you have 5.56
Now military police and non front line computer combatants I can see the need I have nothing against a 1911 and want to get a nice one to add to the collection but I don't see heavy set guys on youtube shooting 1911's under water like you do with the Glock! True that!! |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Forgive me, I'm a bit jaded as my first handgun purchase was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm ACP pistol. In fact I own three 10mm's and three .40's so I kinda like the "compromise" caliber. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod... Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard. 10mm? Is that like the European version of the .40? It's the MANLY version! |
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Forgive me, I'm a bit jaded as my first handgun purchase was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm ACP pistol. In fact I own three 10mm's and three .40's so I kinda like the "compromise" caliber. Quoted:
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!
Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod...
Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard.
10mm? Is that like the European version of the .40? It's the MANLY version!
Yeah, but being metric its still...European manly. 
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Forgive me, I'm a bit jaded as my first handgun purchase was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm ACP pistol. In fact I own three 10mm's and three .40's so I kinda like the "compromise" caliber. Quoted:
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!
Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod...
Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard.
10mm? Is that like the European version of the .40? It's the MANLY version!
Yeah, but being metric its still...European manly. http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/images/column/52109/dieter.jpg Is that Fanthomas's kin?
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Forgive me, I'm a bit jaded as my first handgun purchase was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm ACP pistol. In fact I own three 10mm's and three .40's so I kinda like the "compromise" caliber. Quoted:
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I'm sure the marines will use 10 rd mags, so cappacity will be higher than normal, and if anyone belives it is not a viable combat handgun, just ask the soldiers who have used 1911's in combat and i'm sure they will all agree that it is an amazing weapon, I for one am a 1911 fan at heart, i would have one in a heartbeat if ammo wasn't so damn expensive for it, and ik there are many who agree to happily take it into combat or any self defense scenario, ik i am not an expert, but with 10 rounds or 8 rounds or even 7, i would still feel more than confident with the 1911. plus it uses a hamer, in which case you could cock it back in a situation for an endless amount of one-liners to use how's about a 9mm 1911? He said he'd have a 1911 if ammo wasn't so expensive. There is such a beast as a reliable 9mm 1911 I know they're out there, there's just something wrong about metric 1911's. I have a .22 conversion for mine. And I reload for 14 or 15 cents a round. You shut your filthy whore mouth!
Hey there, don't make me report you to a mod...
Seriously though, American awesomeness and European metric faggotry make for poor bedfellows. If you want to shoot an underpowered cartridge, that's fine. But have the basic self respect & dignity to shoot an underpowered round measured by the Imperial Standard.
10mm? Is that like the European version of the .40? It's the MANLY version!
Yeah, but being metric its still...European manly. http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/images/column/52109/dieter.jpg Is that Fanthomas's kin?
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I think you Glock fan boys are forgetting one important thing. The pistol or any firearm chosen for a contract has to be produced in the US of A. Now before someone points out that the special forces guys can carry what they want, those guys dont count. This is a contract for the MARSOC, but its still a contract for a certain amount of pistols, not a few for the high speed low drag guys. They still have to be made here...
Last time i checked, Glocks werent produced in the US. Bill |
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I think you Glock fan boys are forgetting one important thing. The pistol or any firearm chosen for a contract has to be produced in the US of A. Now before someone points out that the special forces guys can carry what they want, those guys dont count. This is a contract for the MARSOC, but its still a contract for a certain amount of pistols, not a few for the high speed low drag guys. They still have to be made here... Last time i checked, Glocks werent produced in the US. Bill Jesus, you're the second person to get all bent out of shape over pictures of a 1911 breaking
There are many, many pistols made here in the US. Up for consideration for other contracts, were H&K's, FNH, S&W, and plenty others. All would be excellent choices over the self-disassembling 1911. 
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I think you Glock fan boys are forgetting one important thing. The pistol or any firearm chosen for a contract has to be produced in the US of A. Now before someone points out that the special forces guys can carry what they want, those guys dont count. This is a contract for the MARSOC, but its still a contract for a certain amount of pistols, not a few for the high speed low drag guys. They still have to be made here... Last time i checked, Glocks werent produced in the US. Bill Another thing they're forgetting is the fact that one demand the army has always had for their sidearms is an external safety. If the army decided to get a new pistol, Glock wouldn't even be considered. |
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I think you Glock fan boys are forgetting one important thing. The pistol or any firearm chosen for a contract has to be produced in the US of A. Now before someone points out that the special forces guys can carry what they want, those guys dont count. This is a contract for the MARSOC, but its still a contract for a certain amount of pistols, not a few for the high speed low drag guys. They still have to be made here... Last time i checked, Glocks werent produced in the US. Bill Another thing they're forgetting is the fact that one demand the army has always had for their sidearms is an external safety. If the army decided to get a new pistol, Glock wouldn't even be considered. Bingo. Ding ding ding. Winrar, winrar. |
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M&P45.... U.S made external safety model available. this. nuff said ETA: every gun breaks if abused, however with that said, Glocks are rated at 100,000rds. Just sayin' ETAA: 1911 Is the only Pistol i've been able to hit a 100 yard steel plate with too, can't beat a 1911 trigger. |
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M&P45.... U.S made external safety model available. this. nuff said ETA: every gun breaks if abused, however with that said, Glocks are rated at 100,000rds. Just sayin' ETAA: 1911 Is the only Pistol i've been able to hit a 100 yard steel plate with too, can't beat a 1911 trigger. why not issue both the M&P9 or 45 and 1911, 2 hands, 2 sidearms, both 100% USA
ETA: not to mention that a .45 just feels, sounds, looks and shoots in a more satisfying way, my brain just thinks bigger boom=bigger advantage (ik not always true) |
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M&P45.... U.S made external safety model available. this. nuff said ETA: every gun breaks if abused, however with that said, Glocks are rated at 100,000rds. Just sayin' ETAA: 1911 Is the only Pistol i've been able to hit a 100 yard steel plate with too, can't beat a 1911 trigger. why not issue both the M&P9 or 45 and 1911, 2 hands, 2 sidearms, both 100% USA
ETA: not to mention that a .45 just feels, sounds, looks and shoots in a more satisfying way, my brain just thinks bigger boom=bigger advantage (ik not always true) 100% American 230gr Ball of Whoopass.
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I think you Glock fan boys are forgetting one important thing. The pistol or any firearm chosen for a contract has to be produced in the US of A. Now before someone points out that the special forces guys can carry what they want, those guys dont count. This is a contract for the MARSOC, but its still a contract for a certain amount of pistols, not a few for the high speed low drag guys. They still have to be made here... Last time i checked, Glocks werent produced in the US. Bill Jesus, you're the second person to get all bent out of shape over pictures of a 1911 breaking
There are many, many pistols made here in the US. Up for consideration for other contracts, were H&K's, FNH, S&W, and plenty others. All would be excellent choices over the self-disassembling 1911. LMAO! You think thats me getting all bent out of shape...You have no idea. I was just poking the Glock bear with a sharp stick. Bill |