Posted: 1/20/2012 4:55:40 AM EDT
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Simple. Attack on our Christian values, so our so called "leaders" can have more power over us law abiding Americans. Mainly because if government is able to grant rights and not God, then the government can take them away as well.
The number one threat to socialism, communism, and all other ism's is Christianity. Been the battle for the last 3+ thousand years, not going away anytime soon. |
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Simple. Attack on our Christian values, so our so called "leaders" can have more power over us law abiding Americans. Mainly because if government is able to grant rights and not God, then the government can take them away as well. The number one threat to socialism, communism, and all other ism's is Christianity. Been the battle for the last 3+ thousand years, not going away anytime soon. Islam is as much of a threat to the powers at be as Christianity is. You and the OP are going in different directions. |
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political correctness.......
its not ok to insult a brown person's religion regardless if its islam, baptist, or anything else. Noone says anything when a black athlete points to the heavens after a touchdown, or says something about god or faith after a game. devout whitey kneels before a game and everyone refers to it as "tebowing" now.....even insulting an entire religion ON NATIONAL TV during halftime in the playoffs!!! Sorry.....but it has little to do with christianity or islam.....if it did, we would see black athletes ridiculed for their touchdown celebrations when they thank god. Instead there is money out there fr any woman who can prove she has slept with Tebow outside of wedlock. |
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Never said Islam wasn't. In my belief, Islam is one of the biggest threats, because our government is jumping on their bandwagon, not knowing what they are getting US into. The threat to Christianity itself is obvious.... Islam is not a threat to Christianity. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Never said Islam wasn't. In my belief, Islam is one of the biggest threats, because our government is jumping on their bandwagon, not knowing what they are getting US into. The threat to Christianity itself is obvious.... Islam is not a threat to Christianity.  Not sure if serious. 3000 years of wars between the two religions says something different to me. |
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Never said Islam wasn't. In my belief, Islam is one of the biggest threats, because our government is jumping on their bandwagon, not knowing what they are getting US into. The threat to Christianity itself is obvious.... Islam is not a threat to Christianity. Not sure if serious. 3000 years of wars between the two religions says something different to me.
Agreed |
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Quoted: Quoted: Never said Islam wasn't. In my belief, Islam is one of the biggest threats, because our government is jumping on their bandwagon, not knowing what they are getting US into. The threat to Christianity itself is obvious.... Islam is not a threat to Christianity. I do not with to start an argument, but I think they are a threat to anyone that is not them... I think everyone started out as Barbarians, but some moved on and figured out about living in a civilized society... I do not wish anyone to die or lose their head no matter what book tey read from I just wished that went both ways... |
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Never said Islam wasn't. In my belief, Islam is one of the biggest threats, because our government is jumping on their bandwagon, not knowing what they are getting US into. The threat to Christianity itself is obvious.... Islam is not a threat to Christianity. I do not with to start an argument, but I think they are a threat to anyone that is not them... I think everyone started out as Barbarians, but some moved on and figured out about living in a civilized society... I do not wish anyone to die or lose their head no matter what book tey read from I just wished that went both ways... I am not saying that some followers of Islam don't want to kill Christians... but that is not a threat to Christianity. Everybody dies, and historically, violence isn't an uncommon cause of death. There may be some small amount of risk to individuals, Christian or not. |
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A quote from the book "Speaking of Jesus" by Carl Medearis
Imagine yourself on a soccer team. You're the goalie. You're a major part of Team Christian. Your opponent is known as the Rest-of-the-World All-Star Team, pulled together from the top teams around the planet. Its captain is the leading scorer on the formidable Team Muslim. The others are mostly from Team Hindu and Team Secular Humanist, with a single member - the striker - from Team Atheist. Team Christian scores first with an amazing header by one of the stars from the Evangelical Squad, originally out of the Dallas, Texas area. But in the 12th minute, one of the Muslims from the Rest-of-the-World All-Star Team scores. The game goes into half-time tied at 1-1. You see the coach is obviously nervous. "This is it," he yells, "It's the final half. Of courses we know that in the end the greatest soccer player of all time will come back and win it for us, but in the meantime, we can't let up. We can't let him down!" Some of the players chime in that really all that's needed is to be faithful. "We just can't give up," some say. "If we don't give up, it'll all work out in the end." Others insist that this isn't the whole story. "We have been given the responsibility to win the game. We need a clear strategy. Faithfulness is good, but it doesn't guarantee a win. And we must win." One of the young, new players stands up and in a moment of passion blurts out, "Let's kill 'em. I mean, not literally, but we need to take it to 'em. No holding back. Just run 'em over. Whatever it takes. Win." Then you, one of the oldest members of the team, originally from one of the old-school denominational squads, stand and calmly state, "Listen. This isn't easy, I know. But we don't just need better strategy. More faithfulness. Or simply trying harder. We need to befriend them. Be nice to them. Maybe share some hugs or handshakes. Be caring. Then they'll trust us and we can score more easily." The players murmur with assent. That is wisdom. We can't just beat them over the head with the soccer ball. We have to be nice, then they will see. And if our teams can just get along long enough... we'll win them. The second half starts. Team Christian employs a mix of all three things: not giving up, trying harder, and being nicer. Whatever it is, Team Christian scores the next goal only two minutes into the second half. Then something unthinkable happens. You see a man walking straight across the field. He's not part of the game. He's in sandals. The ref blows his whistle and starts to run at the man to get him off the pitch. Just before he reaches the other side, the man stops and looks right at you. You. The one keeping goal. He sees you. Even though he's a good fifty yards away, somehow you can see his eyes. They seem like they are on fire. Passion. Or power. Or... is it compassion? But there's something about his eyes. Strange. You've never seen him before. He doesn't look like he's from around these parts. Then... He calls your name. Not loudly, but clearly. "Come. Follow me." What? you think to yourself. Who does he think he is? Is he blind? Can he not see that I'm keeping goal in the mosts important game of all time? We're up 2-1 with about 15 minutes left. But he simply turns and walks on. Obviously going somewhere. Where? Who is this guy and what does he think he's doing interrupting this game of a lifetime? But his eyes pierced right through you. You never felt that before. You can't describe it, but you have to at least know who he is and where he's going. To the shock of your teammates, you run off like a crazy man after this stranger - leaving the goal wide open. The last thing you see behind you is Ahmad the Muslim scoring. It vaguely crosses your mind that the score is now 2-2. Ahmad is gloating and your teammates are glaring. But you don't care. You've lost it. Gone off the rails. Fallen off your rocker. And you don't even know why or what for. You catch up with the man, who is now off the field and walking into the parking lot. He has attracted a small crowd by now, probably due to his strange attire and bizarre actions. You're out of breath but manage to blurt, "Who are you and what do you want?" "Come and see. Follow me," he replies. What? Come and see? you think. Who does he think he is? "But sir," you gasp in exasperation, trying to be polite, "I can't just leave the game to follow someone I don't know. I have responsibilities." Something dawns on you. You realize he doesn't seem concerned in the least about your soccer game. Which is strange since everyone is on one team or the other. "So which side are you on then? Your own?" you ask with sarcasm. "Yep." "So... then, what's the name of your side?" "Joshua. And if you'll stop asking questions and follow me, you'll find out what I mean." You're totally confused, but you do - follow him that is. As you follow, you begin to learn that this soccer game you've been playing - that everyone's been playing - isn't the way. Joshua is. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team. It's Joshua. He's the score. And all the strategies your team was using, though well meaning, really missed the whole point. you soon realize that your life will never be the same following this Joshua guy. What if I told you that this "us versus them" model of Christianity also misses the point? And that when you speak of Jesus from that paradigm, you are not only ineffective - you will also lose the game? Interested? Read on. |
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Quoted: I never said they were a threat to Christianity (although I think they are, even if only a minor one) I said they were a threat to anyone that is not them.... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never said Islam wasn't. In my belief, Islam is one of the biggest threats, because our government is jumping on their bandwagon, not knowing what they are getting US into. The threat to Christianity itself is obvious.... Islam is not a threat to Christianity. I do not with to start an argument, but I think they are a threat to anyone that is not them... I think everyone started out as Barbarians, but some moved on and figured out about living in a civilized society... I do not wish anyone to die or lose their head no matter what book tey read from I just wished that went both ways... I am not saying that some followers of Islam don't want to kill Christians... but that is not a threat to Christianity. Everybody dies, and historically, violence isn't an uncommon cause of death. There may be some small amount of risk to individuals, Christian or not. Which too me is even worse... |
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Quoted: I'm not saying that Christians are perfect, no one is... A quote from the book "Speaking of Jesus" by Carl Medearis Imagine yourself on a soccer team. You're the goalie. You're a major part of Team Christian. Your opponent is known as the Rest-of-the-World All-Star Team, pulled together from the top teams around the planet. Its captain is the leading scorer on the formidable Team Muslim. The others are mostly from Team Hindu and Team Secular Humanist, with a single member - the striker - from Team Atheist. Team Christian scores first with an amazing header by one of the stars from the Evangelical Squad, originally out of the Dallas, Texas area. But in the 12th minute, one of the Muslims from the Rest-of-the-World All-Star Team scores. The game goes into half-time tied at 1-1. You see the coach is obviously nervous. "This is it," he yells, "It's the final half. Of courses we know that in the end the greatest soccer player of all time will come back and win it for us, but in the meantime, we can't let up. We can't let him down!" Some of the players chime in that really all that's needed is to be faithful. "We just can't give up," some say. "If we don't give up, it'll all work out in the end." Others insist that this isn't the whole story. "We have been given the responsibility to win the game. We need a clear strategy. Faithfulness is good, but it doesn't guarantee a win. And we must win." One of the young, new players stands up and in a moment of passion blurts out, "Let's kill 'em. I mean, not literally, but we need to take it to 'em. No holding back. Just run 'em over. Whatever it takes. Win." Then you, one of the oldest members of the team, originally from one of the old-school denominational squads, stand and calmly state, "Listen. This isn't easy, I know. But we don't just need better strategy. More faithfulness. Or simply trying harder. We need to befriend them. Be nice to them. Maybe share some hugs or handshakes. Be caring. Then they'll trust us and we can score more easily." The players murmur with assent. That is wisdom. We can't just beat them over the head with the soccer ball. We have to be nice, then they will see. And if our teams can just get along long enough... we'll win them. The second half starts. Team Christian employs a mix of all three things: not giving up, trying harder, and being nicer. Whatever it is, Team Christian scores the next goal only two minutes into the second half. Then something unthinkable happens. You see a man walking straight across the field. He's not part of the game. He's in sandals. The ref blows his whistle and starts to run at the man to get him off the pitch. Just before he reaches the other side, the man stops and looks right at you. You. The one keeping goal. He sees you. Even though he's a good fifty yards away, somehow you can see his eyes. They seem like they are on fire. Passion. Or power. Or... is it compassion? But there's something about his eyes. Strange. You've never seen him before. He doesn't look like he's from around these parts. Then... He calls your name. Not loudly, but clearly. "Come. Follow me." What? you think to yourself. Who does he think he is? Is he blind? Can he not see that I'm keeping goal in the mosts important game of all time? We're up 2-1 with about 15 minutes left. But he simply turns and walks on. Obviously going somewhere. Where? Who is this guy and what does he think he's doing interrupting this game of a lifetime? But his eyes pierced right through you. You never felt that before. You can't describe it, but you have to at least know who he is and where he's going. To the shock of your teammates, you run off like a crazy man after this stranger - leaving the goal wide open. The last thing you see behind you is Ahmad the Muslim scoring. It vaguely crosses your mind that the score is now 2-2. Ahmad is gloating and your teammates are glaring. But you don't care. You've lost it. Gone off the rails. Fallen off your rocker. And you don't even know why or what for. You catch up with the man, who is now off the field and walking into the parking lot. He has attracted a small crowd by now, probably due to his strange attire and bizarre actions. You're out of breath but manage to blurt, "Who are you and what do you want?" "Come and see. Follow me," he replies. What? Come and see? you think. Who does he think he is? "But sir," you gasp in exasperation, trying to be polite, "I can't just leave the game to follow someone I don't know. I have responsibilities." Something dawns on you. You realize he doesn't seem concerned in the least about your soccer game. Which is strange since everyone is on one team or the other. "So which side are you on then? Your own?" you ask with sarcasm. "Yep." "So... then, what's the name of your side?" "Joshua. And if you'll stop asking questions and follow me, you'll find out what I mean." You're totally confused, but you do - follow him that is. As you follow, you begin to learn that this soccer game you've been playing - that everyone's been playing - isn't the way. Joshua is. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team. It's Joshua. He's the score. And all the strategies your team was using, though well meaning, really missed the whole point. you soon realize that your life will never be the same following this Joshua guy. What if I told you that this "us versus them" model of Christianity also misses the point? And that when you speak of Jesus from that paradigm, you are not only ineffective - you will also lose the game? Interested? Read on. The difference to me is.... If a Christian, Jehovah, Jew, etc.. etc... Person tries to tell someone about their beliefs in hopes of them becoming a follower of the same and the person rejects the thoughts and offers, the person doing the ""Spreading their word" says OK... and goes on.... They normally don't hate you or want to kill you... There is always a bad apple in a bushel but I'm sure you are picking up what I'm layin down... If you reject Allah, and or Muslim/Islam beliefs What do they consider you and think of you? |
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This is ALL ABOUT the libs and progressives pushing PC down our throats. They have ruined Great Britain. It's not so much a religouis thing as it is a white/dark skinned thing. Economic and Social Justice are words that should send shivers down your spine, and that goes for all United States citizens regardless of race or religion. Those ideas will tear apart everything that has made this country what it is. Everyone will end up with a much less desireable place to live if we continue to allow these ideas to fester and get stronger. It goes down to the basics. This country has flourished due to competition, nothing else. The idea of competition is being taken away even at the lowest levels, our kids are given medals and trohpies even when they lose. There is no more dodgeball so little Jimmy doesn't get his feelings hurt. The people in charge don't want others to feel like they lost. But that is exactly what makes people become better and able to win down the road. Our kids have this shit beat into their heads at school while we are at work paying taxes to allow those in charge to put more economic and political technics at work to foster these socialist ideas.
They chide Tebow because he is white and has faith. |
| Wish I was knowledgable enough to comment. Can't say I know anything really about Islam, but from what I know some of them hate us and some of them don't mind us. I would assume that Christians are the same way towards them, some like them some don't. I can tell you who I don't really care for.... Left Wing Democrats. |
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smullen, why reject them? A Muslim is literally "one who submits to the will of God." Tell them you submit to the will of God, and you are a follower of Isa. You will have much common ground to discuss, and a conversation about Jesus is never a bad thing. You don't have to tell them they are wrong, just get them talking about Jesus and let Him enter the conversation.
Once they are moving toward Jesus and listening to Him speak to their hearts, He can correct their doctrine and theology when He considers it important. |
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A quote from the book "Speaking of Jesus" by Carl Medearis Imagine yourself on a soccer team. You're the goalie. You're a major part of Team Christian. Your opponent is known as the Rest-of-the-World All-Star Team, pulled together from the top teams around the planet. Its captain is the leading scorer on the formidable Team Muslim. The others are mostly from Team Hindu and Team Secular Humanist, with a single member - the striker - from Team Atheist. Team Christian scores first with an amazing header by one of the stars from the Evangelical Squad, originally out of the Dallas, Texas area. But in the 12th minute, one of the Muslims from the Rest-of-the-World All-Star Team scores. The game goes into half-time tied at 1-1. You see the coach is obviously nervous. "This is it," he yells, "It's the final half. Of courses we know that in the end the greatest soccer player of all time will come back and win it for us, but in the meantime, we can't let up. We can't let him down!" Some of the players chime in that really all that's needed is to be faithful. "We just can't give up," some say. "If we don't give up, it'll all work out in the end." Others insist that this isn't the whole story. "We have been given the responsibility to win the game. We need a clear strategy. Faithfulness is good, but it doesn't guarantee a win. And we must win." One of the young, new players stands up and in a moment of passion blurts out, "Let's kill 'em. I mean, not literally, but we need to take it to 'em. No holding back. Just run 'em over. Whatever it takes. Win." Then you, one of the oldest members of the team, originally from one of the old-school denominational squads, stand and calmly state, "Listen. This isn't easy, I know. But we don't just need better strategy. More faithfulness. Or simply trying harder. We need to befriend them. Be nice to them. Maybe share some hugs or handshakes. Be caring. Then they'll trust us and we can score more easily." The players murmur with assent. That is wisdom. We can't just beat them over the head with the soccer ball. We have to be nice, then they will see. And if our teams can just get along long enough... we'll win them. The second half starts. Team Christian employs a mix of all three things: not giving up, trying harder, and being nicer. Whatever it is, Team Christian scores the next goal only two minutes into the second half. Then something unthinkable happens. You see a man walking straight across the field. He's not part of the game. He's in sandals. The ref blows his whistle and starts to run at the man to get him off the pitch. Just before he reaches the other side, the man stops and looks right at you. You. The one keeping goal. He sees you. Even though he's a good fifty yards away, somehow you can see his eyes. They seem like they are on fire. Passion. Or power. Or... is it compassion? But there's something about his eyes. Strange. You've never seen him before. He doesn't look like he's from around these parts. Then... He calls your name. Not loudly, but clearly. "Come. Follow me." What? you think to yourself. Who does he think he is? Is he blind? Can he not see that I'm keeping goal in the mosts important game of all time? We're up 2-1 with about 15 minutes left. But he simply turns and walks on. Obviously going somewhere. Where? Who is this guy and what does he think he's doing interrupting this game of a lifetime? But his eyes pierced right through you. You never felt that before. You can't describe it, but you have to at least know who he is and where he's going. To the shock of your teammates, you run off like a crazy man after this stranger - leaving the goal wide open. The last thing you see behind you is Ahmad the Muslim scoring. It vaguely crosses your mind that the score is now 2-2. Ahmad is gloating and your teammates are glaring. But you don't care. You've lost it. Gone off the rails. Fallen off your rocker. And you don't even know why or what for. You catch up with the man, who is now off the field and walking into the parking lot. He has attracted a small crowd by now, probably due to his strange attire and bizarre actions. You're out of breath but manage to blurt, "Who are you and what do you want?" "Come and see. Follow me," he replies. What? Come and see? you think. Who does he think he is? "But sir," you gasp in exasperation, trying to be polite, "I can't just leave the game to follow someone I don't know. I have responsibilities." Something dawns on you. You realize he doesn't seem concerned in the least about your soccer game. Which is strange since everyone is on one team or the other. "So which side are you on then? Your own?" you ask with sarcasm. "Yep." "So... then, what's the name of your side?" "Joshua. And if you'll stop asking questions and follow me, you'll find out what I mean." You're totally confused, but you do - follow him that is. As you follow, you begin to learn that this soccer game you've been playing - that everyone's been playing - isn't the way. Joshua is. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team. It's Joshua. He's the score. And all the strategies your team was using, though well meaning, really missed the whole point. you soon realize that your life will never be the same following this Joshua guy. What if I told you that this "us versus them" model of Christianity also misses the point? And that when you speak of Jesus from that paradigm, you are not only ineffective - you will also lose the game? Interested? Read on. Too bad for this guy.... Carl Medearis. This isn't a soccer game, and the looser... in the Islamist's eyes... doesn't get to go free to compete another day... or follow someone named Joshua without risk of being hunted down and have planes slam into buildings ...killing thousands. |
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Too bad for this guy.... Carl Medearis. This isn't a soccer game, and the looser... in the Islamist's eyes... doesn't get to go free to compete another day... or follow someone named Joshua without risk of being hunted down and have planes slam into buildings ...killing thousands. So... that Jesus guy just doesn't understand the stakes of the soccer game? Maybe if you explain to him that losing the game means death, he won't ask you to love your enemies if your enemies are those guys. I'm pretty sure he's never experienced a struggle where lives were at risk, or sent his followers into a dangerous situation, maybe you can convince him to change his mind. |
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Too bad for this guy.... Carl Medearis. This isn't a soccer game, and the looser... in the Islamist's eyes... doesn't get to go free to compete another day... or follow someone named Joshua without risk of being hunted down and have planes slam into buildings ...killing thousands. So... that Jesus guy just doesn't understand the stakes of the soccer game? Maybe if you explain to him that losing the game means death, he won't ask you to love your enemies if your enemies are those guys. I'm pretty sure he's never experienced a struggle where lives were at risk, or sent his followers into a dangerous situation, maybe you can convince him to change his mind. Don't get mad at me. I fully admit I'm a bad Christian. I subscribe to the "Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice.... shame on me" philosophy. While that means I will never forgive or love an enemy, it doesn't mean I will hate them either. Indiferrence is the 'feeling' I get when I think of Islam. Since they began in the 600's, they've brought the deathly fight to EVERYONE else. They want to make slaves of everyone... even themselves... to their master: Alah (sp?) Christians don't have a history of killing those who won't convert. The Islamists do. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team
The above... taken from your post... tells me that the author thinks Christians shoulder at least 50% of the blame for participating in some sort of human-conquering tournanment. I don't see it that way at all. I see our involvement as 100% reactionary and no different than the heroic(sp?) passengers of Flight 93 on 9-11-2001.... and the American Soldiers and People of WW I I . Furthermore, I view the Archangel, Michael, as proof that we aren't supposed to keep turning our cheek until we're all dead. But... I could have misinterpretated your and Carl Medearis words... as well as my meager Christian teachings. 
It would be pretty nice to actually have a One on One wtih Jesus so I can determine which human writings are most accurate. Wouldn't it? 
I really don't think I've misinterpretated World History though. 
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Too bad for this guy.... Carl Medearis. This isn't a soccer game, and the looser... in the Islamist's eyes... doesn't get to go free to compete another day... or follow someone named Joshua without risk of being hunted down and have planes slam into buildings ...killing thousands. So... that Jesus guy just doesn't understand the stakes of the soccer game? Maybe if you explain to him that losing the game means death, he won't ask you to love your enemies if your enemies are those guys. I'm pretty sure he's never experienced a struggle where lives were at risk, or sent his followers into a dangerous situation, maybe you can convince him to change his mind. Don't get mad at me. I fully admit I'm a bad Christian. I subscribe to the "Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice.... shame on me" philosophy. While that means I will never forgive or love an enemy, it doesn't mean I will hate them either. Indiferrence is the 'feeling' I get when I think of Islam. Since they began in the 600's, they've brought the deathly fight to EVERYONE else. They want to make slaves of everyone... even themselves... to their master: Alah (sp?) Christians don't have a history of killing those who won't convert. The Islamists do. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team
The above... taken from your post... tells me that the author thinks Christians shoulder at least 50% of the blame for participating in some sort of human-conquering tournanment. I don't see it that way at all. I see our involvement as 100% reactionary and no different than the heroic(sp?) passengers of Flight 93 on 9-11-2001.... and the American Soldiers and People of WW I I . Furthermore, I view the Archangel, Michael, as proof that we aren't supposed to keep turning our cheek until we're all dead. But... I could have misinterpretated your and Carl Medearis words... as well as my meager Christian teachings.
It would be pretty nice to actually have a One on One wtih Jesus so I can determine which human writings are most accurate. Wouldn't it?
I really don't think I've misinterpretated World History though.
Today, yes. In the past, no. Ever heard of the Crusades? "Embrace the cross, or die...." |
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Too bad for this guy.... Carl Medearis. This isn't a soccer game, and the looser... in the Islamist's eyes... doesn't get to go free to compete another day... or follow someone named Joshua without risk of being hunted down and have planes slam into buildings ...killing thousands. So... that Jesus guy just doesn't understand the stakes of the soccer game? Maybe if you explain to him that losing the game means death, he won't ask you to love your enemies if your enemies are those guys. I'm pretty sure he's never experienced a struggle where lives were at risk, or sent his followers into a dangerous situation, maybe you can convince him to change his mind. Don't get mad at me. I fully admit I'm a bad Christian. I subscribe to the "Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice.... shame on me" philosophy. While that means I will never forgive or love an enemy, it doesn't mean I will hate them either. Indiferrence is the 'feeling' I get when I think of Islam. Since they began in the 600's, they've brought the deathly fight to EVERYONE else. They want to make slaves of everyone... even themselves... to their master: Alah (sp?) Christians don't have a history of killing those who won't convert. The Islamists do. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team
The above... taken from your post... tells me that the author thinks Christians shoulder at least 50% of the blame for participating in some sort of human-conquering tournanment. I don't see it that way at all. I see our involvement as 100% reactionary and no different than the heroic(sp?) passengers of Flight 93 on 9-11-2001.... and the American Soldiers and People of WW I I . Furthermore, I view the Archangel, Michael, as proof that we aren't supposed to keep turning our cheek until we're all dead. But... I could have misinterpretated your and Carl Medearis words... as well as my meager Christian teachings.
It would be pretty nice to actually have a One on One wtih Jesus so I can determine which human writings are most accurate. Wouldn't it?
I really don't think I've misinterpretated World History though.
Today, yes. In the past, no. Ever heard of the Crusades? "Embrace the cross, or die...." Yep.. Every time I bring up who has the history of who kills who, the Crusades are brought up. That was temporary, while the M/O of Islam has been consistant all throughout their history. World History proves this to be true, yet because of the Crusades, The Chistians are seen as "No Different". Reminds me of those who want to blame all whites for this nation's slavery years... Hell. My family wasn't even here at that time and yet I'm labled as the enemy. Forking invalid reasoning if you ask me. But what do I know. Don't accept my view because I'm just another lying Christian White guy who wouldn't give women the right to vote and enslaved the black man. |
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Too bad for this guy.... Carl Medearis. This isn't a soccer game, and the looser... in the Islamist's eyes... doesn't get to go free to compete another day... or follow someone named Joshua without risk of being hunted down and have planes slam into buildings ...killing thousands. So... that Jesus guy just doesn't understand the stakes of the soccer game? Maybe if you explain to him that losing the game means death, he won't ask you to love your enemies if your enemies are those guys. I'm pretty sure he's never experienced a struggle where lives were at risk, or sent his followers into a dangerous situation, maybe you can convince him to change his mind. Don't get mad at me. I fully admit I'm a bad Christian. I subscribe to the "Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice.... shame on me" philosophy. While that means I will never forgive or love an enemy, it doesn't mean I will hate them either. Indiferrence is the 'feeling' I get when I think of Islam. Since they began in the 600's, they've brought the deathly fight to EVERYONE else. They want to make slaves of everyone... even themselves... to their master: Alah (sp?) Christians don't have a history of killing those who won't convert. The Islamists do. And that winning doesn't mean scoring more points than the other team
The above... taken from your post... tells me that the author thinks Christians shoulder at least 50% of the blame for participating in some sort of human-conquering tournanment. I don't see it that way at all. I see our involvement as 100% reactionary and no different than the heroic(sp?) passengers of Flight 93 on 9-11-2001.... and the American Soldiers and People of WW I I . Furthermore, I view the Archangel, Michael, as proof that we aren't supposed to keep turning our cheek until we're all dead. But... I could have misinterpretated your and Carl Medearis words... as well as my meager Christian teachings.
It would be pretty nice to actually have a One on One wtih Jesus so I can determine which human writings are most accurate. Wouldn't it?
I really don't think I've misinterpretated World History though.
Today, yes. In the past, no. Ever heard of the Crusades? "Embrace the cross, or die...." Yep.. Every time I bring up who has the history of who kills who, the Crusades are brought up. That was temporary, while the M/O of Islam has been consistant all throughout their history. World History proves this to be true, yet because of the Crusades, The Chistians are seen as "No Different". Reminds me of those who want to blame all whites for this nation's slavery years... Hell. My family wasn't even here at that time and yet I'm labled as the enemy. Forking invalid reasoning if you ask me. But what do I know. Don't accept my view because I'm just another lying Christian White guy who wouldn't give women the right to vote and enslaved the black man. Crusades against Muslims and Pagans went on for roughly 450 years, I hardly call that temporary. Don't put your blinders on, white Christians have dominated the modern world by whatever means necessary. In the name of God many people have been slaughtered. That's the way it is, period. Regardless of whether wars are fought over economic, religion, or geographic reasons there are winners and losers. White European Christains have just done it better than anyone else. At one point the British Empire controlled 25% of the land mass on the entire planet, buildings littered the British Empire with the slogan "One Race, One Queen" chiseled over the entryways. Just recently the quote "For god and country" was used to smoke Bin Laden. While I am very proud of my Native American heredity, my roots run straight to England. I'm in no way trying to justify or condem anything for anybody. The facts are facts. Embrace them. |
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Crusades against Muslims and Pagans went on for roughly 450 years, I hardly call that temporary. Don't put your blinders on, white Christians have dominated the modern world by whatever means necessary. In the name of God many people have been slaughtered. That's the way it is, period. Regardless of whether wars are fought over economic, religion, or geographic reasons there are winners and losers. White European Christains have just done it better than anyone else. At one point the British Empire controlled 25% of the land mass on the entire planet, buildings littered the British Empire with the slogan "One Race, One Queen" chiseled over the entryways. Just recently the quote "For god and country" was used to smoke Bin Laden. While I am very proud of my Native American heredity, my roots run straight to England. I'm in no way trying to justify or condem anything for anybody. The facts are facts. Embrace them. Please do not pretend to know me well enough to say I have blinders on. I've given you NO complete insight to my thoughts. You are painting a broad brush of me based on a few statements. I know us Christian White guys have made some really evil decisions on many levels. The Crusades were indeed reactionary to Islamic insanity. Sure, they went overboard. No question. But the whole thing came about in much the same way as our involvement with WW I I . We were attacked, then realized we needed to get involved and then take PROACTIVE measures designed to DEFEAT an enemy. The Islamic way is to war against non-beleivers. Always has been and it's still going on today. That hasn't been the case with Christians. We've made mistakes, sure. but it hasn't been our M/O. |
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Romans ruthlessly enslaved half the world, and tried to eliminate Christianity with a savagery and ruthless efficiency that the most radical Muslim terrorists can only dream of. Yet when Paul was in Roman prison and circumstances gave him a chance to escape, he instead stayed and showed compassion to his guard, who was about to commit suicide as he thought Paul had escaped.
Paul, a Roman citizen and a Jew, as well as one of history's best orators, could have perhaps rounded up an army, a coalition of peoples oppressed by Romans. But instead, he saved the life and comforted the man who was just holding Paul until he could be executed. Yes, if a terrorist attacks you on a plane, or shoots at you in a mall, fight back. But an entire religion isn't out to get you. Most Muslims just want to provide for their families, eat good food (if such a thing can exist without bacon), and submit to the will of God. Sure, they believe some incorrect things about God, but so do I and so do you. Don't they deserve to know Jesus and have a relationship with him? Start there and let Jesus correct any misconceptions or mistaken beliefs they (or you!) hold as those problems get in his way of changing them (or you) to be more like him. |
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Romans ruthlessly enslaved half the world, and tried to eliminate Christianity with a savagery and ruthless efficiency that the most radical Muslim terrorists can only dream of. Yet when Paul was in Roman prison and circumstances gave him a chance to escape, he instead stayed and showed compassion to his guard, who was about to commit suicide as he thought Paul had escaped. Paul, a Roman citizen and a Jew, as well as one of history's best orators, could have perhaps rounded up an army, a coalition of peoples oppressed by Romans. But instead, he saved the life and comforted the man who was just holding Paul until he could be executed. Yes, if a terrorist attacks you on a plane, or shoots at you in a mall, fight back. But an entire religion isn't out to get you. Most Muslims just want to provide for their families, eat good food (if such a thing can exist without bacon), and submit to the will of God. Sure, they believe some incorrect things about God, but so do I and so do you. Don't they deserve to know Jesus and have a relationship with him? Start there and let Jesus correct any misconceptions or mistaken beliefs they (or you!) hold as those problems get in his way of changing them (or you) to be more like him. I can easily tell you are a better Christian than I. They believe some incorrect things? Understatement for sure. History of what they have done since their inception (sp?) in the 600's says different than "Most Muslims just want to provide for their families, eat good food (if such a thing can exist without bacon), and submit to the will of God." I'm going with world history on this one. |
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Crusades against Muslims and Pagans went on for roughly 450 years, I hardly call that temporary. Don't put your blinders on, white Christians have dominated the modern world by whatever means necessary. In the name of God many people have been slaughtered. That's the way it is, period. Regardless of whether wars are fought over economic, religion, or geographic reasons there are winners and losers. White European Christains have just done it better than anyone else. At one point the British Empire controlled 25% of the land mass on the entire planet, buildings littered the British Empire with the slogan "One Race, One Queen" chiseled over the entryways. Just recently the quote "For god and country" was used to smoke Bin Laden. While I am very proud of my Native American heredity, my roots run straight to England. I'm in no way trying to justify or condem anything for anybody. The facts are facts. Embrace them. Please do not pretend to know me well enough to say I have blinders on. I've given you NO complete insight to my thoughts. You are painting a broad brush of me based on a few statements. I know us Christian White guys have made some really evil decisions on many levels. The Crusades were indeed reactionary to Islamic insanity. Sure, they went overboard. No question. But the whole thing came about in much the same way as our involvement with WW I I . We were attacked, then realized we needed to get involved and then take PROACTIVE measures designed to DEFEAT an enemy. The Islamic way is to war against non-beleivers. Always has been and it's still going on today. That hasn't been the case with Christians. We've made mistakes, sure. but it hasn't been our M/O. I'm not going to banter back and forth on history. Especailly when we wrote it. As far as pretending to know you.... Cmon, if you write your thoughts on an internet bulletin board expect them to be interpreted. I wouldn't classify "Don't put your blinders on" as peering into your soul. |
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Crusades against Muslims and Pagans went on for roughly 450 years, I hardly call that temporary. Don't put your blinders on, white Christians have dominated the modern world by whatever means necessary. In the name of God many people have been slaughtered. That's the way it is, period. Regardless of whether wars are fought over economic, religion, or geographic reasons there are winners and losers. White European Christains have just done it better than anyone else. At one point the British Empire controlled 25% of the land mass on the entire planet, buildings littered the British Empire with the slogan "One Race, One Queen" chiseled over the entryways. Just recently the quote "For god and country" was used to smoke Bin Laden. While I am very proud of my Native American heredity, my roots run straight to England. I'm in no way trying to justify or condem anything for anybody. The facts are facts. Embrace them. Please do not pretend to know me well enough to say I have blinders on. I've given you NO complete insight to my thoughts. You are painting a broad brush of me based on a few statements. I know us Christian White guys have made some really evil decisions on many levels. The Crusades were indeed reactionary to Islamic insanity. Sure, they went overboard. No question. But the whole thing came about in much the same way as our involvement with WW I I . We were attacked, then realized we needed to get involved and then take PROACTIVE measures designed to DEFEAT an enemy. The Islamic way is to war against non-beleivers. Always has been and it's still going on today. That hasn't been the case with Christians. We've made mistakes, sure. but it hasn't been our M/O. I'm not going to banter back and forth on history. Especailly when we wrote it. As far as pretending to know you.... Cmon, if you write your thoughts on an internet bulletin board expect them to be interpreted. I wouldn't classify "Don't put your blinders on" as peering into your soul. American's don't write WORLD History alone. The entire world does. Also... your definition of the word "temporary" differs greatly with the dictionary. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Temporary ... check out the ONLY antonym given... PERMANENT. Since there isn't any way, without a bunch of assumptions, you could make the "don't put your blinders on" statement to begin with, I'll read your bolded statement as an apology for incorrectly interpreting what I believe... and accept it. 
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Romans ruthlessly enslaved half the world, and tried to eliminate Christianity with a savagery and ruthless efficiency that the most radical Muslim terrorists can only dream of. Yet when Paul was in Roman prison and circumstances gave him a chance to escape, he instead stayed and showed compassion to his guard, who was about to commit suicide as he thought Paul had escaped. Paul, a Roman citizen and a Jew, as well as one of history's best orators, could have perhaps rounded up an army, a coalition of peoples oppressed by Romans. But instead, he saved the life and comforted the man who was just holding Paul until he could be executed. Yes, if a terrorist attacks you on a plane, or shoots at you in a mall, fight back. But an entire religion isn't out to get you. Most Muslims just want to provide for their families, eat good food (if such a thing can exist without bacon), and submit to the will of God. Sure, they believe some incorrect things about God, but so do I and so do you. Don't they deserve to know Jesus and have a relationship with him? Start there and let Jesus correct any misconceptions or mistaken beliefs they (or you!) hold as those problems get in his way of changing them (or you) to be more like him. I can easily tell you are a better Christian than I. They believe some incorrect things? Understatement for sure. History of what they have done since their inception (sp?) in the 600's says different than "Most Muslims just want to provide for their families, eat good food (if such a thing can exist without bacon), and submit to the will of God." I'm going with world history on this one. There are many people who call themselves Christians who believe equally ridiculously incorrect things - many of whom have killed for their beliefs. Even members of modern evangelical denominations are not immune to this - just as ancient Hebrews believed they could manipulate God into saving and blessing them through ritual sacrifices and strict adherence to laws, many modern "Christians" believe the same about ritual prayers and following the right set of rules. Muslims may be a bit further from the truth about God, but they do believe in one God, creator of heaven and Earth, who commands his followers to practice charity and care for the poor, and that Jesus was an important prophet. It is likely that you will never, ever convince a Muslim that he is wrong on any point of theology. However, Muslims (and many others, even including militant atheists) see Jesus as a folk hero, roaming the countryside healing the sick and feeding the poor, and preaching justice and salvation. Good for us that Jesus is a far better and more effective influence than we are, and all of his opinions about God just happen to be correct - and best of all he wants to have a relationship with us (including Muslims), through which he makes us (and any Muslims who listen to him) more like him. It took Jesus years to transform Peter from a militant terrorist into a broken, humble, powerful man of God. It probably won't happen any faster in us or any Muslim we are likely to introduce to Jesus. There may come a point where Jesus speaks to a Muslim and says "we can't get any closer until you renounce Islam," or there may not. There are many followers of Jesus who still go to mosque and celebrate Muslim holidays, because it is culturally expected. "Muslims" who live in arab nations, go to mosque, celebrate Islamic holidays, and have a close personal relationship with Jesus are not going to commit or support acts of terrorism. If you're concerned about institutional Islam's propensity for violence, you may want to learn to speak arabic and move to Libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, or Palestine, and start attending mosque to make new friends who you can introduce to Jesus. There are a great many "Muslims" in those nations who are followers of Jesus because of people who do just that. |
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Quoted: Sure, they believe some incorrect things about God, but so do I and so do you. Agreed Don't they deserve to know Jesus and have a relationship with him? Agreed. Start there and let Jesus correct any misconceptions or mistaken beliefs they (or you!) hold as those problems get in his way of changing them (or you) to be more like him. Not a problem. You take the ""Message"" to them and share it with them... I'll wait here and see how it goes... The problem with this is, you or I would be willing to Share and them know Jesus if they want OR let them go on their own peaceful path IF they want... You or I will not be offended, call them the infidel/enemy and want to kill them in barbaric ways... Can you say that for a lot of them???? I know not every Muslim or Islamist has a Bomb hidden in their Hijab and wants to kill whitey, but with there being over a million of them, even a small slice of that say 3% thats a lot of bad folks... Then 9times outta 10, those are the ones you hear from and see... The peaceful ones, do not denounce or call the radicals out on this... Why, from what I can tell its because they are scared of their Brothers.... Several years ago I was employed by and good friends with a guy who later I found out was a Muslim... He was one of what I think is a peaceful group... But the ones he feared to speak out against; Not so much... |
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I'm not called to the middle east. Carl Medearis has been doing exactly what I posted above, for years. When the Iraq war started, he was there before the shooting stopped, handing out the gospel of Luke.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Yes, there's people out there who will kill you for not converting to their religion. Those are a threat to people, yes. But we can't kill all of them. We can't make bombs fast enough to keep up with their reproduction rates. Not even the most bloodthirsty and dedicated warmonger has the stomach to wipe out billions of innocents along with the terrorists. Even if we tried, the rest of the world would be justified in nuking us off the map. There can be no political solution either. There is only one solution, and it requires us to love them enough to risk our own lives to introduce them to the one person who can truly make meaningful and lasting changes. |
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Crusades against Muslims and Pagans went on for roughly 450 years, I hardly call that temporary. Don't put your blinders on, white Christians have dominated the modern world by whatever means necessary. In the name of God many people have been slaughtered. That's the way it is, period. Regardless of whether wars are fought over economic, religion, or geographic reasons there are winners and losers. White European Christains have just done it better than anyone else. At one point the British Empire controlled 25% of the land mass on the entire planet, buildings littered the British Empire with the slogan "One Race, One Queen" chiseled over the entryways. Just recently the quote "For god and country" was used to smoke Bin Laden. While I am very proud of my Native American heredity, my roots run straight to England. I'm in no way trying to justify or condem anything for anybody. The facts are facts. Embrace them. Please do not pretend to know me well enough to say I have blinders on. I've given you NO complete insight to my thoughts. You are painting a broad brush of me based on a few statements. I know us Christian White guys have made some really evil decisions on many levels. The Crusades were indeed reactionary to Islamic insanity. Sure, they went overboard. No question. But the whole thing came about in much the same way as our involvement with WW I I . We were attacked, then realized we needed to get involved and then take PROACTIVE measures designed to DEFEAT an enemy. The Islamic way is to war against non-beleivers. Always has been and it's still going on today. That hasn't been the case with Christians. We've made mistakes, sure. but it hasn't been our M/O. I'm not going to banter back and forth on history. Especailly when we wrote it. As far as pretending to know you.... Cmon, if you write your thoughts on an internet bulletin board expect them to be interpreted. I wouldn't classify "Don't put your blinders on" as peering into your soul. American's don't write WORLD History alone. The entire world does. Also... your definition of the word "temporary" differs greatly with the dictionary. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Temporary ... check out the ONLY antonym given... PERMANENT. Since there isn't any way, without a bunch of assumptions, you could make the "don't put your blinders on" statement to begin with, I'll read your bolded statement as an apology for incorrectly interpreting what I believe... and accept it.
You have ASSumed two things. I did not say that Americans wrote history, I was referring to white Eurpoean Christians. But, since you brought it up.... We did slaughter hundreds of thousands of Native Americans in the name of Manifest Destiny and forced Christianity on those that remained. The official United States estimate for total Native Americans killed since 1776 is between 100,000 and 500,000, even we have re-written history fairly recently since we know this to truly be in the millions. I'm sure the US estimate of deaths in Iraq to be grossly underestimated also. To the victors go the spoils of war. Also, no apology coming from this direction. For someone who doesn't want people taking a perspective from your writings, you surely do it in the opposite direction. There are a great many more evil things that have happened to man than what either religion, Christianity or Islam have perpetrated. It is estimated that Mao is directly and indirectly responsible for 60 million deaths in China with the implementation of his brand of Communism, the same can be said for Joseph Stalin with an estimate of 20 million. I am in no way saying that white European Christians are bad, hell, I am one! I'm not a pacisfist either. War is hell regardless of what reason it was started. There are winners and losers and the losers get the short end of the stick, period. There have been alot of people killed in the name of God and Allah, I'd bet more in the name of God. Over the past 2000 years or so people I am descended from have done pretty dam well at spreading their way of life around the planet. There are 2.1 billion Christians. Most of this was accomplished through kindness and peace. For a so called declining religion those are some powerful numbers. Roughly 1.5 billion people are Muslims. As far as the temporay/permanent goes, it's probably the wrong verbage to begin with. |
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Some folks refuse to see that The Bible doesn't instruct Christians to do the evil things which some Christian men chose to do.... While, on the other hand, the Qu'ran (sp?) instructs Islamists to commit evil deeds. Hence, true Islamists are simply following orders.
<shrug> Lottsa Luck to you.
ETA: Didn't feel so nice having someone put words in your mouth. Did it?
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I'm not called to the middle east. Carl Medearis has been doing exactly what I posted above, for years. When the Iraq war started, he was there before the shooting stopped, handing out the gospel of Luke. I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Yes, there's people out there who will kill you for not converting to their religion. Those are a threat to people, yes. But we can't kill all of them. We can't make bombs fast enough to keep up with their reproduction rates. Not even the most bloodthirsty and dedicated warmonger has the stomach to wipe out billions of innocents along with the terrorists. Even if we tried, the rest of the world would be justified in nuking us off the map. There can be no political solution either. There is only one solution, and it requires us to love them enough to risk our own lives to introduce them to the one person who can truly make meaningful and lasting changes. Thanks for a great post. Those logisics are kind of a game changer for me with regard to my incorrect outlook on this situation. Still... I don't know if I'll ever be good enough to look at them with the same "love" as I do when I see a child making things difficult and and me silently knowing it's likely he/she will grow out of it soon enough with the right guidance. I've got some things left to sort out.... damn it.
Thanks again for taking the time to put that together.
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I'm not called to the middle east. Carl Medearis has been doing exactly what I posted above, for years. When the Iraq war started, he was there before the shooting stopped, handing out the gospel of Luke. I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Yes, there's people out there who will kill you for not converting to their religion. Those are a threat to people, yes. But we can't kill all of them. We can't make bombs fast enough to keep up with their reproduction rates. Not even the most bloodthirsty and dedicated warmonger has the stomach to wipe out billions of innocents along with the terrorists. Even if we tried, the rest of the world would be justified in nuking us off the map. There can be no political solution either. There is only one solution, and it requires us to love them enough to risk our own lives to introduce them to the one person who can truly make meaningful and lasting changes. Thanks for a great post. Those logisics are kind of a game changer for me with regard to my incorrect outlook on this situation. Still... I don't know if I'll ever be good enough to look at them with the same "love" as I do when I see a child making things difficult and and me silently knowing it's likely he/she will grow out of it soon enough with the right guidance. I've got some things left to sort out.... damn it.
Thanks again for taking the time to put that together.
Thanks. It helps to have some Muslim friends (who coincidentally aren't trying to kill me) I can talk to. It also helps to look at myself in the past. I was raised Baptist, with a very black-and-white view of the world, as exclusive, dogmatic, and far from God as any radical Muslim (there are followers of Jesus in the Baptist church, just like there are in mosques around the world - I'm saying I was far from God when I was there, not that all Baptists are). If a guy like me can change as much as I have, then any middle-easterner who has dedicated his life to submitting to God's will deserves the same chance I got to actually meet Jesus and hear from him what his will is. |
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I'm not called to the middle east. Carl Medearis has been doing exactly what I posted above, for years. When the Iraq war started, he was there before the shooting stopped, handing out the gospel of Luke. I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Yes, there's people out there who will kill you for not converting to their religion. Those are a threat to people, yes. But we can't kill all of them. We can't make bombs fast enough to keep up with their reproduction rates. Not even the most bloodthirsty and dedicated warmonger has the stomach to wipe out billions of innocents along with the terrorists. Even if we tried, the rest of the world would be justified in nuking us off the map. There can be no political solution either. There is only one solution, and it requires us to love them enough to risk our own lives to introduce them to the one person who can truly make meaningful and lasting changes. Thanks for a great post. Those logisics are kind of a game changer for me with regard to my incorrect outlook on this situation. Still... I don't know if I'll ever be good enough to look at them with the same "love" as I do when I see a child making things difficult and and me silently knowing it's likely he/she will grow out of it soon enough with the right guidance. I've got some things left to sort out.... damn it.
Thanks again for taking the time to put that together.
Thanks. It helps to have some Muslim friends (who coincidentally aren't trying to kill me) I can talk to. It also helps to look at myself in the past. I was raised Baptist, with a very black-and-white view of the world, as exclusive, dogmatic, and far from God as any radical Muslim (there are followers of Jesus in the Baptist church, just like there are in mosques around the world - I'm saying I was far from God when I was there, not that all Baptists are). If a guy like me can change as much as I have, then any middle-easterner who has dedicated his life to submitting to God's will deserves the same chance I got to actually meet Jesus and hear from him what his will is. Again. You're a better Christian than I and I apreciate your insight. About your post I've bolded... I'm gonna play a PRACTICAL Devil's Advocate here.... In the Qu'ran (sp?), it tells them to lie and hide their intentions... much like I would if I was an undercover cop, and bide their time until it's right - and safe - to attack. There are many Muslims, posibly representing the majority, who aren't turning in or exposing the "Extremists" among them. This is a fact I can't ignore. How can you be sure they aren't simply being as effective as most of us when we were shmoozing a young Lass? |
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Thanks. It helps to have some Muslim friends (who coincidentally aren't trying to kill me) I can talk to. It also helps to look at myself in the past. I was raised Baptist, with a very black-and-white view of the world, as exclusive, dogmatic, and far from God as any radical Muslim (there are followers of Jesus in the Baptist church, just like there are in mosques around the world - I'm saying I was far from God when I was there, not that all Baptists are). If a guy like me can change as much as I have, then any middle-easterner who has dedicated his life to submitting to God's will deserves the same chance I got to actually meet Jesus and hear from him what his will is. Again. You're a better Christian than I and I apreciate your insight. About your post I've bolded... I'm gonna play a PRACTICAL Devil's Advocate here.... In the Qu'ran (sp?), it tells them to lie and hide their intentions... much like I would if I was an undercover cop, and bide their time until it's right - and safe - to attack. There are many Muslims, posibly representing the majority, who aren't turning in or exposing the "Extremists" among them. This is a fact I can't ignore. How can you be sure they aren't simply being as effective as most of us when we were shmoozing a young Lass? I can't be sure. Again it comes back to the fact that only Jesus can change their heart and intentions. Worst case scenario, they're playing nice until the uprising. They're still talking to me about Jesus. At some point, the Holy Spirit has to stir their heart to listen - that's the only reason anybody can accept Jesus. If they listen, and begin a relationship with Jesus, then Jesus can change their heart in a way that nobody else could. I've seen miraculous healing of physical illness and injury - but healing of emotional and spiritual injury is no less miraculous, and no less important. "Jesus saves" isn't just a motto, and it isn't just theology or faith that you won't go to hell when you die. Being "saved" isn't just some hope for the future, it's a description of what happens when the will of God is done on Earth, here and now. God's will is healing, restoration, sight for the blind, reconciliation, love, and life. Remember all the places in the Bible where Jesus talks about "the Kingdom of God is like..." and "the Kingdom of Heaven is here!" and "God's Kingdom is at hand!" and whatnot? Jesus was proclaiming that Heaven can be had on Earth - wherever God's will is done, that is the Kingdom of God. Healing, forgiveness of sin, miracles; they can all happen here and now, because the Kingdom of God is here. But sometimes they don't happen, because the Kingdom of God is only near. We have this future age, occasionally breaking through into the present age. I've experienced both the "here" and the "not yet" of it. Our part is exactly the same as the part Jesus had. Jesus told us he could only do what he saw the Father doing. That's all we can do. Ask the Father what he is doing, and join in with it. Sometimes it is asking for healing, sometimes giving to the poor, sometimes just talking to someone (who may be plotting to kill you) about Jesus. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks. It helps to have some Muslim friends (who coincidentally aren't trying to kill me) I can talk to. It also helps to look at myself in the past. I was raised Baptist, with a very black-and-white view of the world, as exclusive, dogmatic, and far from God as any radical Muslim (there are followers of Jesus in the Baptist church, just like there are in mosques around the world - I'm saying I was far from God when I was there, not that all Baptists are). If a guy like me can change as much as I have, then any middle-easterner who has dedicated his life to submitting to God's will deserves the same chance I got to actually meet Jesus and hear from him what his will is. Again. You're a better Christian than I and I apreciate your insight. About your post I've bolded... I'm gonna play a PRACTICAL Devil's Advocate here.... In the Qu'ran (sp?), it tells them to lie and hide their intentions... much like I would if I was an undercover cop, and bide their time until it's right - and safe - to attack. There are many Muslims, posibly representing the majority, who aren't turning in or exposing the "Extremists" among them. This is a fact I can't ignore. How can you be sure they aren't simply being as effective as most of us when we were shmoozing a young Lass? I can't be sure. Again it comes back to the fact that only Jesus can change their heart and intentions. Worst case scenario, they're playing nice until the uprising. They're still talking to me about Jesus. At some point, the Holy Spirit has to stir their heart to listen - that's the only reason anybody can accept Jesus. If they listen, and begin a relationship with Jesus, then Jesus can change their heart in a way that nobody else could. I've seen miraculous healing of physical illness and injury - but healing of emotional and spiritual injury is no less miraculous, and no less important. "Jesus saves" isn't just a motto, and it isn't just theology or faith that you won't go to hell when you die. Being "saved" isn't just some hope for the future, it's a description of what happens when the will of God is done on Earth, here and now. God's will is healing, restoration, sight for the blind, reconciliation, love, and life. Remember all the places in the Bible where Jesus talks about "the Kingdom of God is like..." and "the Kingdom of Heaven is here!" and "God's Kingdom is at hand!" and whatnot? Jesus was proclaiming that Heaven can be had on Earth - wherever God's will is done, that is the Kingdom of God. Healing, forgiveness of sin, miracles; they can all happen here and now, because the Kingdom of God is here. But sometimes they don't happen, because the Kingdom of God is only near. We have this future age, occasionally breaking through into the present age. I've experienced both the "here" and the "not yet" of it. Our part is exactly the same as the part Jesus had. Jesus told us he could only do what he saw the Father doing. That's all we can do. Ask the Father what he is doing, and join in with it. Sometimes it is asking for healing, sometimes giving to the poor, sometimes just talking to someone (who may be plotting to kill you) about Jesus. Hey you made me think of a question... Do Muslims get baptized similar to Christians or they just get the whole 72 Virgins thing after blowing themselves up ""in the name of Allah Akbar""... Also, do other religions, Mormons, Jews, Hindus, etc, etc... Do they have some form of Baptismal ? I thing learning about all religions is interesting and has its merits. |
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Quoted:
Some folks refuse to see that The Bible doesn't instruct Christians to do the evil things which some Christian men chose to do.... While, on the other hand, the Qu'ran (sp?) instructs Islamists to commit evil deeds. Hence, true Islamists are simply following orders. <shrug> Lottsa Luck to you.
ETA: Didn't feel so nice having someone put words in your mouth. Did it? Plenty of evil things for Christians to do in the Bible, straight from God. Read the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, etc. etc. Lots of instructions on when and why to kill people, invade cities, kill your enemies and their women and children, force them into slavery, etc. etc. The absurd rules in the Old Testament are not far off the Quran. Considering both books have 50 common people and were written during a time when change was very slow, it's easy to see the similarities. It's the difference in interpretation and how much more strongly the Quran is followed word for word vs. how Christians follow the teachings of the Bible today. We don't stone our children if they disobey us, but the Bible says that we should. |
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History shows Islam isn't the Religion of Peace and that they bring war to everyone.
Our country was founded on Christian principals. Before you attack me again... Go back up and re-read where I admit the Christian White guy has done some pretty evil things... 'specially where I point to America's fucked up history regarding slavery and complete disrespect for women. Those key fuck ups, along with our Christian values, are being manipulated in order to divide us and bring this country to it's knees. The country who has done more good for mankind... in the History of Mankind... in the least amount of time, with the least amount of mistakes... repeats history by letting the enemy within prevail. Fucking pathetic. |
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History shows Islam isn't the Religion of Peace and that they bring war to everyone. History also shows the Christianity has had it's share of unprovoked wars. The fact is that Christians have done pretty much the same thing the Muslims are doing, follow the Bible word for word. Are we doing it now? Nope. But in the past Christians have done our share. It wasn't you or me specifically, but at the same time we wouldn't be where we are if these things were not done. If the Crusaders did not invade the Holy Land and continue to fight for over 400 years Islam may have spread much more north than southern Italy and our ancestors may have been slaves to the Moors. If the Spanish, Portugese, and British Empires had not spanned the new world with the intentions of converting all to Christianity there would be no United States as we know it. I'm not saying the birth of our nation hinged upon these things alone, but they were intregal pieces of history that ensured we are here now typing on these computers. Our country was founded on Christian principals. Before you attack me again... Go back up and re-read where I admit the Christian White guy has done some pretty evil things... 'specially where I point to America's fucked up history regarding slavery and complete disrespect for women. Attack ???? Nobody is attacking. No names have been called, nor have I used foul language. Disagreeing with someone is far from an attack, in fact it's one of the freedoms we strive so hard to preserve. Those key fuck ups, along with our Christian values, are being manipulated in order to divide us and bring this country to it's knees. I agree, political correctness has run amuck and is being used against white European Christians. Christianity is under attack and it's our own politicians playing right along. The country who has done more good for mankind... in the History of Mankind... in the least amount of time, with the least amount of mistakes... repeats history by letting the enemy within prevail. True, oh so true. Fucking pathetic. Exactly what is F*cking pathetic? |
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Quoted: I don't think anyone would disagree or defend some of the thing that were done in the past, but the thing is they are past... Quoted: History shows Islam isn't the Religion of Peace and that they bring war to everyone. History also shows the Christianity has had it's share of unprovoked wars. The fact is that Christians have done pretty much the same thing the Muslims are doing, follow the Bible word for word. Are we doing it now? Nope. But in the past Christians have done our share. It wasn't you or me specifically, but at the same time we wouldn't be where we are if these things were not done. If the Crusaders did not invade the Holy Land and continue to fight for over 400 years Islam may have spread much more north than southern Italy and our ancestors may have been slaves to the Moors. If the Spanish, Portugese, and British Empires had not spanned the new world with the intentions of converting all to Christianity there would be no United States as we know it. I'm not saying the birth of our nation hinged upon these things alone, but they were intregal pieces of history that ensured we are here now typing on these computers. Christianity is under attack and it's our own politicians playing right along. Some of us have moved on and become civilized.. As you even said are we doing it now? NOPE... Wait wut, what were were arguing about again? |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
History shows Islam isn't the Religion of Peace and that they bring war to everyone. History also shows the Christianity has had it's share of unprovoked wars. The fact is that Christians have done pretty much the same thing the Muslims are doing, follow the Bible word for word. Are we doing it now? Nope. But in the past Christians have done our share. It wasn't you or me specifically, but at the same time we wouldn't be where we are if these things were not done. If the Crusaders did not invade the Holy Land and continue to fight for over 400 years Islam may have spread much more north than southern Italy and our ancestors may have been slaves to the Moors. If the Spanish, Portugese, and British Empires had not spanned the new world with the intentions of converting all to Christianity there would be no United States as we know it. I'm not saying the birth of our nation hinged upon these things alone, but they were intregal pieces of history that ensured we are here now typing on these computers. Our country was founded on Christian principals. Before you attack me again... Go back up and re-read where I admit the Christian White guy has done some pretty evil things... 'specially where I point to America's fucked up history regarding slavery and complete disrespect for women. Attack ???? Nobody is attacking. No names have been called, nor have I used foul language. Disagreeing with someone is far from an attack, in fact it's one of the freedoms we strive so hard to preserve. Those key fuck ups, along with our Christian values, are being manipulated in order to divide us and bring this country to it's knees. I agree, political correctness has run amuck and is being used against white European Christians. Christianity is under attack and it's our own politicians playing right along. The country who has done more good for mankind... in the History of Mankind... in the least amount of time, with the least amount of mistakes... repeats history by letting the enemy within prevail. True, oh so true. Fucking pathetic. Exactly what is F*cking pathetic? Those key fuck ups, along with our Christian values, are being manipulated in order to divide us and bring this country to it's knees.
The country who has done more good for mankind... in the History of Mankind... in the least amount of time, with the least amount of mistakes... repeats history by letting the enemy within prevail.
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