Posted: 6/13/2011 5:45:31 PM EDT
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Those that CCW, do you carry liability insurance and if you do, who do you use?
Got to thinking that it probably would be in the best interest of me and my family to carry some sort of extra protection against civil lawsuits. |
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Don't know of any policies geared to CCW holders. Best bet is to get a good insurance agent, buy a homeowners policy with a quality insurance carrier and get a personal umbrella policy. Don't know anything about your background but you might also consider a class like LFI's "Judicious Use of Deadly Force". Good, real world training is just another form of insurance. |
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You're pretty much covered from frivolous lawsuits in Missouri. How so? MO does not have any protection against frivilous suits (besides the Castle Doctrine of course). You can get a suit filed against you right now for any reason, and you're going to have to retain counsel to fight it. You do not automatically get your legal fees and court costs back if you win. There's a statute for malicious prosecution, but the burden is on you to prove that the 5 requirements were met. Even then, you can only recover $3000 in small claims. Taking it any higher than that and your going to incur legal fees that will outweigh what you'll get back anyway. I would love to see tort reform pormised in the campaigns come next election Here's a post on MOCarry where we talked liability & unbrella policies. Not sure if I'm covered or not, but I'm surely not going to ask. http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60024&highlight=liability |
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Quoted: Quoted: You're pretty much covered from frivolous lawsuits in Missouri. How so? MO does not have any protection against frivilous suits. You can get a suit filed against you right now for any reason, and you're going to have to retain counsel to fight it. You do not automatically get your legal fees and court costs back if you win. There's a statute for malicious prosecution, but the burden is on you to prove that the 5 requirements were met. Even then, you can only recover $3000 in small claims. Taking it any higher than that and your going to incur legal fees that will outweigh what you'll get back anyway. I would love to see tort reform pormised in the campaigns come next election Here's a post on MOCarry where we talked liability & unbrella policies. Not sure if I'm covered or not, but I'm surely not going to ask. http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60024&highlight=liability You are correct anybody can file a law suit. The Missouri Castle Doctrine however makes it about 99% that if you were involved in a shooting and were on the right side of the law that a frivolouis civil suit will not be filed. If the plaintiff doesn't win the case they are now responsible for all of your court costs, legal fees, and all reasonable expenses. Now that the plaintiffs have an equal amount of skin in the game these suits will stop. |
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Not trying to stir the pot here, but 'right side of the law' can be pretty grey.
Case-in-point: In St Louis city, near Busch Stadium on Easter weekend, an off duty cop got involved in a firefight with some guy in a parking lot across from a bar. THe bouncer, an off-duty Air Force guy from Scott AFB, came outside, saw what was going on, told the cop (who was not readily identifiable) to drop his weapon. The cop did not respond and the bouncer started firing. IIRC, the cop and the 'other guy' died from their wounds. Last I read, there were serious indications that the bouncer may have provided the fatal shot to the cop. I apologize if I have some facts of this case incorrect, but the scenario raises interesting questions. You walk into a situation, say at the grocery store parking lot, see a guy with a gun so you react and drop the guy you see. Maybe he's the 'good guy'? Would Castle Doctrine protect you criminally or civilly if its not on your premises? Does umbrella liability cover this type of scenario? I suppose you should not shoot this guy until you are sure who he is, but when a gun is pointed in your general direction, how long are you going to ask questions before you start returning fire? Dynamic situations are never easy... |
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If you have a homeonwers / renters policy you "most likely" have coverage. Usually homeowners insurance provides 300,000 to 500,000 of liability coverage for a covered occurance. Buy an UMBRELLA policy as noted above. Ask your local independent agent about how the policy would react in the case of Self Defense. (Not at home, but on the street.) I have never seen an exclusion for self defense in a policy. Your intent should ALWAYS be to MAKE THE BG STOP.
To get an umbrella policy, you will need a decent driving record. An umbrella starts at about $200 for a $1,000,000 depending on cars and drivers. Do you want a $1,000,000 dollar atty or a $300,000 atty defending your assets? I am not an attorney, don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night! (In other words, advice you get from me is worthless other than I have been in the insurance business for years.) Talk to an agent who can give you the coverage you need. |
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Quoted:
Not trying to stir the pot here, but 'right side of the law' can be pretty grey. Case-in-point: In St Louis city, near Busch Stadium on Easter weekend, an off duty cop got involved in a firefight with some guy in a parking lot across from a bar. THe bouncer, an off-duty Air Force guy from Scott AFB, came outside, saw what was going on, told the cop (who was not readily identifiable) to drop his weapon. The cop did not respond and the bouncer started firing. IIRC, the cop and the 'other guy' died from their wounds. Last I read, there were serious indications that the bouncer may have provided the fatal shot to the cop. I apologize if I have some facts of this case incorrect, but the scenario raises interesting questions. You walk into a situation, say at the grocery store parking lot, see a guy with a gun so you react and drop the guy you see. Maybe he's the 'good guy'? Would Castle Doctrine protect you criminally or civilly if its not on your premises? Does umbrella liability cover this type of scenario? I suppose you should not shoot this guy until you are sure who he is, but when a gun is pointed in your general direction, how long are you going to ask questions before you start returning fire? Dynamic situations are never easy... What happened to the bouncer? I was under the impression "he" couldn't involve himself in that sort of situation. I thought it ws only if "you" were threatened,, not someone across the road that you didn't know? I could be wrong,, someone clarify this? MO Boy 
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Here's what StateFarm's umbrella policy says:
Exclusions: There is no coverage under this policy for any: ... 14. bodily injury or personal injury which is: a. either expected or intended by the insured; or b. the result of any willful and malicious act of the insured; ... 17. personal injury when the insured acts with specific intent to cause any harm; And regarding asking your agent for clairification, here's what I posted on MOCarry about it. Moral of the story––don't ask, don't tell. But if you call and they say, NO, now it's done. If you don't formally ask, something happens, and they deny the claim, you can sue them.......because you thought you were covered from how the agent described it and cryptic language in the policy. I'm always careful what I ask when I call my insure company. Asking the wrong thing can jeapardize your policy. My wife's professional liability insurance is the perfect example. She was looking to do work under her own business rather than the hospital––I asked my agent if her polciy would cover that. Answer, "No." When the policy came up for renewal and they want to know if she's running the side business or not. Even though they won't cover it, they wanted to know about it. Same deal with my life insurance. They wanted an extra $1300 a year since I'm a pilot. Even though I don't need their coverage when I'm flying, they won't cover me with an aviation exclusion. If I would have been able NOT to tell them about the flying, I would have kept it quite and had their insurance. And it would have just said, in the exclusions "...not covered when acting as a flight crewmember..." |
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Quoted:
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You're pretty much covered from frivolous lawsuits in Missouri. How so? MO does not have any protection against frivilous suits (besides the Castle Doctrine of course). You can get a suit filed against you right now for any reason, and you're going to have to retain counsel to fight it. You do not automatically get your legal fees and court costs back if you win. There's a statute for malicious prosecution, but the burden is on you to prove that the 5 requirements were met. Even then, you can only recover $3000 in small claims. Taking it any higher than that and your going to incur legal fees that will outweigh what you'll get back anyway. I would love to see tort reform pormised in the campaigns come next election Here's a post on MOCarry where we talked liability & unbrella policies. Not sure if I'm covered or not, but I'm surely not going to ask. http://www.missouricarry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60024&highlight=liability I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly specify. I thought you'd know I was referring only to "good shoots". Lambo explained it for me. Thanks dawg. 
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I'm sorry if I didn't explicitly specify. I thought you'd know I was referring only to "good shoots". I knew what you meant, no worries.....I just saying I wish the langauge in the Castle Doctrine would apply to ALL torts. So if you got some BS suit filed against you, you AUTOMATICALLY got all your expenses reimbursed when you won or it was thrown out of court. Right now, it's all on you if you want your money back. |
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The USCCA is now offering Defense Shield as a part of their membership. Three levels of coverage. Go to their website to investigate further.
There is one other group (Washington State I believe) who also offer a self-defense attorney coverage. I think I was their ad's in the USCCA' s magazine. |