[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Auto Knives/ switch blades (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/13/2011 5:21:03 PM EDT
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So what the skinny on carrying with a ccw ??
Thanks |
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The law:
571.010 Definitions:
(12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or bladed hand instrument that is readily capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person. For purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife with no blade more than four inches in length; (20) "Switchblade knife", any knife which has a blade that folds or closes into the handle or sheath, and: (a) That opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle; or (b) That opens or releases from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force. MO law makes it a crime to carry a "knife" concealed, but the CCW exempts you from that portion of the law. So a fixed blade knife or really large folder would fall under CCW but you wouldn't want to carry one otherwise. The "switchblade" is outlawed (for use or carry, but not for the undefined* "collector" to own), but the definition of "switchblade" excludes spring-assist folders which open by applying pressure to the blade itself or a stud on the blade, or a cutout on the blade, etc. Note that a "switchblade" opens with a button mounted on the handle, or by "gravity" or centrifugal force, none of which apply to a spring-assist folder. Can a police officer harass you about a spring assist folder? Sure, but if an officer was sufficiently determined to harass you, even a non-assist blade would cause you problems. *Do you own more than one knife? Then you can claim to be a collector. Who's to say you can't carry part of your collection? The law is vague, but I don't believe anyone who owns more than one knife could be convicted of owning one, if you were carrying it you may be arrested or just have it "confiscated" but you could probably get off without a conviction, probably. |
| Some LEO do carry "switchblades". Bench Made (spelling?) makes one that had been issued to some officers. The military also issued them to certain ranking soildiers in the past. Most of the LEO I have asked indicated to me that they won't say much about a switchblade as long as the person has a CCW and carries it concealed all the time. |
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Isn't there something to do with LEO, EMT, or First Responders being able to carry? Thought I read something about them being able to. Police and military in the line of duty in MO........But I know plenty of EMS/FF that carry them. I have a Microtech Troodon in my flight suit. If you need to cut a seat belt you don't want to fish your open blade through wreckage and around body parts. You get to the spot you need to be, deploy the blade, cut, then retract––all with one hand. Their is a federal law that does trump the state's ban for people with use of only one hand. They're allowed to carry a "auto knife" or "switchblade". I think it's tagged on knifeforums somewhere. |
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Isn't there something to do with LEO, EMT, or First Responders being able to carry? Thought I read something about them being able to. Police and military in the line of duty in MO........But I know plenty of EMS/FF that carry them. I have a Microtech Troodon in my flight suit. If you need to cut a seat belt you don't want to fish your open blade through wreckage and around body parts. You get to the spot you need to be, deploy the blade, cut, then retract––all with one hand. Their is a federal law that does trump the state's ban for people with use of only one hand. They're allowed to carry a "auto knife" or "switchblade". I think it's tagged on knifeforums somewhere. I have heard a few people in ems/fire state they are a 'tool of the trade' and claim exemption based on that, but I am unsure of any legal basis for that. HB294 does have something in it about switchblade knives. This was passed by the mo house and senate last week and should be awaiting the governor's signature. |
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I have heard a few people in ems/fire state they are a 'tool of the trade' and claim exemption based on that, but I am unsure of any legal basis for that. HB294 does have something in it about switchblade knives. This was passed by the mo house and senate last week and should be awaiting the governor's signature. There is no exemption for fire/EMS. Might not get the book thrown at them though......since it's a "tool", not a weapon. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isn't there something to do with LEO, EMT, or First Responders being able to carry? Thought I read something about them being able to. Police and military in the line of duty in MO........But I know plenty of EMS/FF that carry them. I have a Microtech Troodon in my flight suit. If you need to cut a seat belt you don't want to fish your open blade through wreckage and around body parts. You get to the spot you need to be, deploy the blade, cut, then retract––all with one hand. Their is a federal law that does trump the state's ban for people with use of only one hand. They're allowed to carry a "auto knife" or "switchblade". I think it's tagged on knifeforums somewhere. I have heard a few people in ems/fire state they are a 'tool of the trade' and claim exemption based on that, but I am unsure of any legal basis for that. HB294 does have something in it about switchblade knives. This was passed by the mo house and senate last week and should be awaiting the governor's signature. 4) Allows a person to possess, manufacture, transport, repair,I've read it, but I go cross eyed, it seems like it contradicts itself. |
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Isn't there something to do with LEO, EMT, or First Responders being able to carry? Thought I read something about them being able to. Police and military in the line of duty in MO........But I know plenty of EMS/FF that carry them. I have a Microtech Troodon in my flight suit. If you need to cut a seat belt you don't want to fish your open blade through wreckage and around body parts. You get to the spot you need to be, deploy the blade, cut, then retract––all with one hand. Their is a federal law that does trump the state's ban for people with use of only one hand. They're allowed to carry a "auto knife" or "switchblade". I think it's tagged on knifeforums somewhere. I have heard a few people in ems/fire state they are a 'tool of the trade' and claim exemption based on that, but I am unsure of any legal basis for that. HB294 does have something in it about switchblade knives. This was passed by the mo house and senate last week and should be awaiting the governor's signature. 4) Allows a person to possess, manufacture, transport, repair,or sell a machine gun, short barreled rifle or shotgun, orfirearm silencer if he or she conforms with federal law. Aperson will not commit a crime if he or she possesses,manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells an explosive weapon;explosive, incendiary, or poisonous substance or material; a gasgun; a switchblade knife; certain explosive bullets; or knucklesif he or she conforms with federal law. A person who possesses,manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells an explosive weapon;explosive, incendiary, or poisonous substance or material; a gasgun; or a machine gun, short barreled rifle or shotgun, orfirearm silencer in violation of federal law will be guilty of aclass C felony. A person who possesses, manufactures,transports, repairs, or sells a switchblade knife, certainexplosive bullets, or knuckles will be guilty of a class Amisdemeanor (Section 571.020);I've read it, but I go cross eyed, it seems like it contradicts itself. This!!! WTF! |
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Isn't there something to do with LEO, EMT, or First Responders being able to carry? Thought I read something about them being able to. Police and military in the line of duty in MO........But I know plenty of EMS/FF that carry them. I have a Microtech Troodon in my flight suit. If you need to cut a seat belt you don't want to fish your open blade through wreckage and around body parts. You get to the spot you need to be, deploy the blade, cut, then retract––all with one hand. Their is a federal law that does trump the state's ban for people with use of only one hand. They're allowed to carry a "auto knife" or "switchblade". I think it's tagged on knifeforums somewhere. I have heard a few people in ems/fire state they are a 'tool of the trade' and claim exemption based on that, but I am unsure of any legal basis for that. HB294 does have something in it about switchblade knives. This was passed by the mo house and senate last week and should be awaiting the governor's signature. 4) Allows a person to possess, manufacture, transport, repair,or sell a machine gun, short barreled rifle or shotgun, orfirearm silencer if he or she conforms with federal law. Aperson will not commit a crime if he or she possesses,manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells an explosive weapon;explosive, incendiary, or poisonous substance or material; a gasgun; a switchblade knife; certain explosive bullets; or knucklesif he or she conforms with federal law. A person who possesses,manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells an explosive weapon;explosive, incendiary, or poisonous substance or material; a gasgun; or a machine gun, short barreled rifle or shotgun, orfirearm silencer in violation of federal law will be guilty of aclass C felony. A person who possesses, manufactures,transports, repairs, or sells a switchblade knife, certainexplosive bullets, or knuckles will be guilty of a class Amisdemeanor (Section 571.020);I've read it, but I go cross eyed, it seems like it contradicts itself. This!!! WTF! WOW!! |
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This is the only way I could read it and make any sense of what they intend to say.
Aperson will not commit a crime if (snip) he or she conforms with federal law.
A person who possesses,manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells (guns and stuff) in violation of federal law will be guilty of aclass C felony. A person who possesses, manufactures,transports, repairs, or sells a switchblade knife, certainexplosive bullets, or knuckles will be guilty of a class Amisdemeanor (assuming it's supposed to read in "violation of federal law"). What is the federal law on those items? |
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Missouri - Chapter 571, Weapons Offenses - 571.020... 1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (7) A switchblade knife; ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- 2. A person does not commit a crime pursuant to this section if his conduct:... (5) Was incident to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament, or keepsake... ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- I buy them whenever I can afford to;  |
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Missouri - Chapter 571, Weapons Offenses - 571.020... 1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (7) A switchblade knife; ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- 2. A person does not commit a crime pursuant to this section if his conduct:... (5) Was incident to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament, or keepsake ... The problem is that this is deleted from the new law.........now it will say "...conforms with federal law..." Not sure what this means for switchblades, but it we are hopefully grandfathered in with the ones we currently own. |
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Missouri - Chapter 571, Weapons Offenses - 571.020... 1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (7) A switchblade knife; ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- 2. A person does not commit a crime pursuant to this section if his conduct:... (5) Was incident to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament, or keepsake ... The problem is that this is deleted from the new law.........now it will say "...conforms with federal law..." Not sure what this means for switchblades, but it we are hopefully grandfathered in with the ones we currently own. Hmmmm . .. . . I just read 294. It does seem like switchblades lost their keepsake and curio status. It appears that they made possession of a switchblade a Class A misdemeanor. I wonder if that's what they meant to do. |
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I'm not too confident in the answer I got, but here it is; "Kurt, We didn’t change the laws regarding switchblade knives, so however you complied with the law before, you will need to do the same now. The bill only changed rules regarding machine guns, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and suppressors. Thanks for your support on 2nd Amendment issues! Sincerely, Jeanie Riddle" |
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I just wrote back to her; Rep. Riddle, The language restricting them was as follows; Missouri - Chapter 571, Weapons Offenses - 571.020... 1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (7) A switchblade knife; The exemption allowing to collect them was; 2. A person does not commit a crime pursuant to this section if his conduct:... (5) Was incident to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament, or keepsake ... That exemption language is missing in the new legislation, so to me that says we'll be guilty of the possession in 571. Can you show me how it's still allowed, without the exemption stating that it is? Thanks again, Kurt |
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Stay under four inches. "(12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or bladed hand instrument that is readily capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person. For purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife with no blade more than four inches in length;" http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000010.HTM |
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Stay under four inches. "(12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or bladed hand instrument thatis readily capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cuttingor stabbing a person. For purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife with no blade more than four inches in length;" http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000010.HTM True, but that is only for "pocket knives" which may or may not be limited to folding knives. The general consensus is that fixed-blade knives of any length are considered "knives" under MO law. Or, get a CCW and don't worry about it, as a CCW exempts you from the section of law that makes it a crime to carry a "knife." |
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do tell about the Blur I will. I need to get some pics and write up some instructions. Do me a favor please and send me an IM if I have not done this in the next 4 or 5 days. I ahve been kinda busy and I keep forgetting until I see this thread lol. Honestly this mod will only really help people if they actually use the shit out of their knifes all the time. If you carry a knife for cutting simple little things and carry it as more of an accessory rather than a tool it probably wont help much. I use my Blur constantly and it gets HARD use. There are two mods I did to my knife that have really REALLY helped me out for several different uses...not just cutting and stabbing. Ill probably also need to make a few MS paint drawings to get the idea across. ETA- I truly believe the Kershaw Blur is one of the best knives for the money. Its a rock solid knife that is very thin which makes it very easy to keep clipped in any pocket(you dont even feel in if carried in the back pocket when you sit down). I am actually carrying my second one now...the first is probably still in a KCPD locker somewhere. I had to use my first one in self defence and THANK GOD FOR THE ASSISTED OPENING!!!! I will never carry a knife that doesnt have that feature. It truly was a life saver. There is just one problem with the Kershaw Blur...which my mod will address, the second mod just increases its useful ness as a tool. |
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do tell about the Blur I will. I need to get some pics and write up some instructions. Do me a favor please and send me an IM if I have not done this in the next 4 or 5 days. I ahve been kinda busy and I keep forgetting until I see this thread lol. Honestly this mod will only really help people if they actually use the shit out of their knifes all the time. If you carry a knife for cutting simple little things and carry it as more of an accessory rather than a tool it probably wont help much. I use my Blur constantly and it gets HARD use. There are two mods I did to my knife that have really REALLY helped me out for several different uses...not just cutting and stabbing. Ill probably also need to make a few MS paint drawings to get the idea across. ETA- I truly believe the Kershaw Blur is one of the best knives for the money. Its a rock solid knife that is very thin which makes it very easy to keep clipped in any pocket(you dont even feel in if carried in the back pocket when you sit down). I am actually carrying my second one now...the first is probably still in a KCPD locker somewhere. I had to use my first one in self defence and THANK GOD FOR THE ASSISTED OPENING!!!! I will never carry a knife that doesnt have that feature. It truly was a life saver. There is just one problem with the Kershaw Blur...which my mod will address, the second mod just increases its useful ness as a tool. Looking forward to seeing that. I love the Kershaw products. I have been carrying a packrat for a little over a year now, it's a great knife. |
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I was hoping I'd be able to occasionally carry one of my autos, but now it appears I'll have to sell them in the next couple months.  Should be "grandfathered in". You owned them prior to the law going into effect making them illegal. You cannot acquire any more of them, and still cannot carry them, but you can still own them, right?? While I don't have a receipt for my Microtech, it has the manufacture date stamped the side and I have some emails to show I bought it years ago. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Should be "grandfathered in". You owned them prior to the law going into effect making them illegal. You cannot acquire any more of them, and still cannot carry them, but you can still own them, right??I was hoping I'd be able to occasionally carry one of my autos, but now it appears I'll have to sell them in the next couple months. While I don't have a receipt for my Microtech, it has the manufacture date stamped the side and I have some emails to show I bought it years ago. That's what I'd like to know. It doesn't mention that, and I have nothing to prove when I bought these. They were cash deals at gun shows, with no receipts. The only real proof I already have them is the pics I've posted. I want to know I'm legal before the new law is implemented. |
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Why don't we wait to see how the law looks after it's been amended before anybody starts throwing things away. Just because there isn't an exemption in the bill that was passed doesn't mean that the existing exemption was struck down. I do NOT agree with this statement, I have in fact been working on a fool proof disposal method of said knives. Please message me for my address so that you can send your knives to me for proper disposal. |
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Should be "grandfathered in". You owned them prior to the law going into effect making them illegal. You cannot acquire any more of them, and still cannot carry them, but you can still own them, right?? That's what I'd like to know. It doesn't mention that, and I have nothing to prove when I bought these. They were cash deals at gun shows, with no receipts. The only real proof I already have them is the pics I've posted. I want to know I'm legal before the new law is implemented. We're going to have to have one of the resident lawyers look into this. "Grandfathering" is the slang, but I believe the legal speak is Ex post facto. Which means you cannot be found guilty for something you did before a law was enacted. I know there are exceptions to this.....for instance, if you bought a gun [legally] 50 yrs ago, even though you had a criminal past at the time, it would now be illegal for you to still own that gun (even though, at the time, you legally acquired it.) The inverse.........transferrable machine guns. Even though they are now banned, any made prior to May '86 are still legal to transfer. |
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I got the reply from my Senator, and their legal team verified that after August 28 anyone who currently has auto knives under the curio exemption will be guilty of a misdemeanor. "Kurt- I contacted our legal department regarding your questions and here is what they had to say: HB 294 repealed a provision in section 571.020 that allowed a person to possess a switchblade that is a curio, ornament, or keepsake. Section 571.020 makes it a crime to knowingly possess, manufacture, transport, repair, or sell a switchblade knife among other types of weapons. Before the law was amended by HB 294, however, section 571.020 contained an exception that allowed a person to possess a switchblade if the possession was incident to dealing with the knife soley as a curio, ornament, or keepsake. HB 294 repealed that exception from the law. Some exceptions to the law remain. Under section 571.020 as amended by HB 294, a person may possess a switchblade in conformity with federal law if the possession: (1) Was incident to the performance of official duty by, or a business transaction with, the armed forces, national guard, a law enforcement agency, or a prison; (2) Was incident to a display in a public museum or exhibition; or (3) Was incident to a lawful dramatic performance. If a person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells a switchblade knife and the person does not meet one of the exceptions listed above, then the person commits a class A misdemeanor under the law that goes into effect on August 28. Another amendment could be drafted upon a legislators request for next year to either exclude switchblade knives entirely from the section 571.020 or to add the curio exception back into the law. I hope this helped! If you have any more questions just let me know and I'll look into it for you. Cordially, Jessica D. Johnson Legislative Assistant for Senator Brian Nieves 26th Senatorial District" |
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I got the reply from my Senator, and their legal team verified that after August 28 anyone who currently has auto knives under the curio exemption will be guilty of a misdemeanor. "Kurt- I contacted our legal department regarding your questions and here is what they had to say: HB 294 repealed a provision in section 571.020 that allowed a person to possess a switchblade that is a curio, ornament, or keepsake. Section 571.020 makes it a crime to knowingly possess, manufacture, transport, repair, or sell a switchblade knife among other types of weapons. Before the law was amended by HB 294, however, section 571.020 contained an exception that allowed a person to possess a switchblade if the possession was incident to dealing with the knife soley as a curio, ornament, or keepsake. HB 294 repealed that exception from the law. Some exceptions to the law remain. Under section 571.020 as amended by HB 294, a person may possess a switchblade in conformity with federal law if the possession: (1) Was incident to the performance of official duty by, or a business transaction with, the armed forces, national guard, a law enforcement agency, or a prison; (2) Was incident to a display in a public museum or exhibition; or (3) Was incident to a lawful dramatic performance. If a person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells a switchblade knife and the person does not meet one of the exceptions listed above, then the person commits a class A misdemeanor under the law that goes into effect on August 28. Another amendment could be drafted upon a legislators request for next year to either exclude switchblade knives entirely from the section 571.020 or to add the curio exception back into the law. I hope this helped! If you have any more questions just let me know and I'll look into it for you. Cordially, Jessica D. Johnson Legislative Assistant for Senator Brian Nieves 26th Senatorial District" Seems like a little civil disobedience is in order . . . 
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