Posted: 1/6/2011 6:27:56 PM EDT
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I am getting ready to either build or buy an AR.
I want something that will shoot very well and be, for the most part, a tack driver even if I am not at this point. I can tolerate me missing the target, but not the rifle. LOL.  I do shoot a REM .308 SPS Varmint and yes it can out shoot me. Just being honest.
CMMG has their 'bargain bin" rifles from time to time, the new rifles, very expensive (But maybe worth it.) There are other retailers selling guns locally. I don't have a problem with any of them either. Also, I don't need a bunch of funky technocrap at this point. (Options are for later.) I want to put the front site on the tarpet, squeeze the trigger and take out a target. What would you suggest as your first AR? I know $600 to $1,000 is my range at this time. If that will not get it done. Then I'll just wait. ( I don't do credit.) Build? - I am mechanically inclined, but not confident on my first one. I have researched the directions and I really doesn't look that difficult. Pins, punches, special wrench, vice, no problem.) Buy Used? Bargain bin? Get out the big check book and buy new? Brand recomendation? Joe |
You can't go wrong with a standard A2 (iron sights) 20" rifle.  Or a 16" A4 flattop configuration. Or a retro skinny barrel A1. Or a Recce with a nice 1-4x scope on it.  What do you want to do with the rifle? If you want a casual paper puncher that is capable at longer ranges the rifle will be configured differently than if you want a shorter, handier rifle for close-quarters use. The beauty of the AR15 platform is that it absolutely is modular and changeable to your wants & needs. And there are plenty of folks all around the state who can help build or change parts with you. |
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Quoted: I would go Bargin bin and 1k rounds. No need to spend more than 600$ on an AR. I have tried many different combos and my goto rifle is a spray painted 500$ M4 . It goes bang every time and hits up to 200 yards easily Not bad advice at all. When CMMG first started selling their "trash can" guns, they were literally made from whatever parts they had laying around, often from unknown sources and often they were used parts. Those days are looooong past and now their "trash can" guns come in cardboard boxes just like every other rifle they sell and are made from 100% new parts, all for about the same price as the original "trash can" guns. So, $600 for a new rifle, $340 for 1K rounds of ammo (probably stretch that ammo budget a bit further if you can stand to shoot cheap Wolf steel-cased ammo) and $60 for some spare magazines is a right proper start into ARs. |
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I would go Bargin bin and 1k rounds. No need to spend more than 600$ on an AR. I have tried many different combos and my goto rifle is a spray painted 500$ M4 . It goes bang every time and hits up to 200 yards easily Not bad advice at all. When CMMG first started selling their "trash can" guns, they were literally made from whatever parts they had laying around, often from unknown sources and often they were used parts. Those days are looooong past and now their "trash can" guns come in cardboard boxes just like every other rifle they sell and are made from 100% new parts, all for about the same price as the original "trash can" guns. So, $600 for a new rifle, $340 for 1K rounds of ammo (probably stretch that ammo budget a bit further if you can stand to shoot cheap Wolf steel-cased ammo) and $60 for some spare magazines is a right proper start into ARs.
As I understand it the major difference between the bargain bin and regular production rifles is the warranty, because I'll be damned if I could find anything wrong with the BB rifle my friend bought (other than a nasty trigger). (As a side note I prefer silver bear over wolf, much better steel cased shit, a touch cleaner too) |
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optics included? If so, good luck!
I'd go Used Super Sniper 10x - 225 cheap lower - 75 RRA 2 stage LPK- 130 A2 stock kit- 50 Upper- Complete flat top- 75 Free float tube- 50 YHM low pro gas block with tube- 35 A2 flash hide- 5 RRA BCG - 115 CH- 15 Wilson or LW barrel- 250 ish .... You will be skimmin by the budget. Post WTB ads and accept scratches. It's the best way. People on here love to unload gear that is scratched. |
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Quoted: A 10x scope really limits usability inside of 100yds.optics included? If so, good luck! I'd go Used Super Sniper 10x - 225 If it were me, I'd go with a flattop upper and some BUIS or a carry handle sight until such time as the budget recuperates. Learning to shoot well with iron sights is not to be under-rated. |
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I've got 3 sabre uppers that I've bought used on the EE and they are all tack-drivers. However for your first build you won't have to get too fancy.
I wouldn't be afraid at all to buy used except I personally would stay away from DPMS or Bushmaster and stay away from Hbars, excessively heavy. Go with 1/7 or 1/8 twist. I don't know much about their reputation but DSA INC has a midlength fluted M4 chromelined 1/7 complete upper for 330. It sounds like it would be nice and light with the M4 profile AND fluting together. And a midlength will shoot a little "softer" than a carbine, (recoil wise). They also list a complete lower with mil-spec stock for around 200. Then add a BCG and CH for about 150 and you could have a pretty decent setup for about 680, (not including shipping and transfer fees). One consideration is most AR LPK's have shitty triggers for accuracy so you might be better off with a stripped lower and at least a RRA 2stage match trigger LPK upgrade but then by the time you add a stock you'll be closer to 300 total in just the lower alone. Even a fairly good cheap scope can get you some mighty small groups, maybe a burris or nikon 3-9 or 4-12X for around 200 or so. So about 880 for a complete scoped AR. If you want some closeup action you'll probably also want a flip-up rear sight for anywhere from 50-100$. I don't know all the specs on the CMMG BB rifles but if they're chromelined and have the right twist rate, they would be a little cheaper. Then I would buy several types, brands, weights of ammo to try. Matching the right ammo to what the rifle likes is the single most important aspect of wringing out accuracy, IMHO. I've had rifles shoot over 2.5" then shoot under 1" just by finding the right rifle/ammo combo. After that, the only other upgrade I'd be concerned with would be adding a free-float tube or rail sometime later when you have more funds. |
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Bargain Bin rifle with 1/7 or 1/9 twist and 1500-2000 rounds of Silver Bear ammo.
Building up a gun with no ammo budget makes for one expensive, but pretty, stick. If this is your first AR, shoot irons for awhile, get good with them.....then get optics later. With iron sights, there is no reason you can't hit headshots of steel or paper at 100 yards every shot. Work on being an instinctual shooter and be used to your sights being semi-normal in your vision and you'll notice you can get pretty good in close (100yds and under). Iron sights are fine for distance if you're steady enough. |
I have bought 2 of the DSA 16" nitride treated uppers, and they are great quality and give good groups. I'm looking at adding the middy to mate with an upper I have in the safe. I still have 2, so I want to build a middy since I don't own one ...yet. 
My first AR I bought whole, since then I've started with a stripped lower and built that, then just added an upper. Of course I have torn my first one apart since then ...
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Thanks for the help!
Looks like the overall concensus is to buy an inexpensive rifle, such as a BB gun, some ammo, sites and shoot until I can wear it out. Then build my next one. 200 yards is about as far as I feel the need to go right now on a small target. This mostly for me and my son to shoot and have fun with. If SHTF, then he carries the AR and I'll carry the REM SPS .308 w. the Luepold 6.5 x 20 x 50mm... I will be going to the Boone Co show this weekend. Just to check some stuff out. I have to wait until the taxes are complete before I go buying another rifle.....
I am just learning about ARs and reading tons of stuff. (Including all of in the front of AR15.com.) Joe |
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Order the AR-15 catalog from Brownell's. It's free. You can then see all the different parts available and read about them to decide which ones would be important to you. It starts out by showing you the different configurations.
ETA: Link http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=ar15+catalog/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=ar15_catalog |
| I've been the cheap rifle whore for some time and one thing I can tell you is the biggest problems will always be mags and ammo. Ars will work if you give them good mags and ammo. Oh and learn how to clean them properly. Especially the bolt. Learned that the hard way at a DPMS zombie shoot. After that I spent a week cleaning bolts per dpms's armorers instructions. |
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I've been the cheap rifle whore for some time and one thing I can tell you is the biggest problems will always be mags and ammo. Ars will work if you give them good mags and ammo. Oh and learn how to clean them properly. Especially the bolt. Learned that the hard way at a DPMS zombie shoot. After that I spent a week cleaning bolts per dpms's armorers instructions. Not going to lie, I suck at cleaning my bolts, I keep them wiped down and lubed then if I think they are starting to get a bit nasty they get taken apart and spend some quality time in the bolt pool (parts washer at work). Back on topic; Its not that I am completely against building your first AR its just that having gone that route I wish I would have spent more time with a basic gun with irons and allot of ammo then the little ammo and a gun with a fairly nice sight. What I wish I would have done; and recommend to most people that ask me is this; bought a cheap, quality gun (CMMG BB rifles are g2g IMO) with allot of ammo, then shoot the hell out of it. After you have put 500 or more rounds through it, start replacing some parts a piece at a time. The advantage to having built my first AR though is that I stressed so much about the assembly that I can put together a stripped lower in my sleep, I know every pin, every piece, each spring. This is handy when I go to replace a part, but its not necessary. That and to be honest you will spend more when building from scratch. Because you will buy some 'upgraded' parts over what you would find in the average off the rack rifle. |
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I would also highly recommend a .22 conversion kit. You can have alot of fun with a little money with one, then just drop the .556 bolt back in when you want to shoot the big boys again. Also very good to sight in at 25 yards before you use your .556 to fine tune at longer yardages.
Just my opinion. 
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Just build one like this!
Sorry that the pic is no longer up to date. I will have to do another one when the weather improves! A Few new children to add to the mix Seriously though, if you get the bargain bin AR from CMMG you will probably be money ahead. It will end up costing you at least that to assemble one from quality parts. BUT if you desire to BUILD/ASSEMBLE one then you will be able to spread the expenses out over time to make it a bit easier. AND you can build it EXACTLY as you like it instead of "Off the Rack" Get a decent receiver, Just about any familiar brand, there are SOME out there that are um.... Iffy... Get a quality barrel from a NAME vendor Get a quality Bolt Carrier Group ALSO from a NAME vendor After the problems I have encountered over the years from some parts vendors I will only buy from quality vendors Bushmaster, CMMG, COLT, White Oak Armament (many vendors offer barrels from WOA under their own label) Bravo Company, Global Tactical, Rainier, DSG all offer excellent parts. |
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Quoted: Order the AR-15 catalog from Brownell's. It's free. You can then see all the different parts available and read about them to decide which ones would be important to you. It starts out by showing you the different configurations. ETA: Link http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=ar15+catalog/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=ar15_catalog And get yourself a C&R License so you can get the cheaper "dealer" prices from Brownells, and other palces such as Midway & Grafs too. |
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Quoted: I would also highly recommend a .22 conversion kit. You can have alot of fun with a little money with one, then just drop the .556 bolt back in when you want to shoot the big boys again. Also very good to sight in at 25 yards before you use your .556 to fine tune at longer yardages. Just my opinion. EXCELLENT advice. I see the conversion kits sell for cheap in the EE all the time, but new ones aren't that expensive either. However, the mags for the conversion kits ARE rather pricey, usually ~$25 each compared to $7 (aluminum) to $15 (PMAGs) for .223 mags.  The conversion kit will pay for itself in ammo savings fairly quickly. 1K of .223 is ~$300. 1K of .22lr is ~$50. The kit and 4-5 good mags for it cost ~$250. After that first 1k rounds, the kit has paid for itself. The only downside to the kits is the limited range of the .22lr round, which realistically is ~75yds with bulk high-velocity ammo. |
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I would also highly recommend a .22 conversion kit. You can have alot of fun with a little money with one, then just drop the .556 bolt back in when you want to shoot the big boys again. Also very good to sight in at 25 yards before you use your .556 to fine tune at longer yardages. Just my opinion. EXCELLENT advice. I see the conversion kits sell for cheap in the EE all the time, but new ones aren't that expensive either. However, the mags for the conversion kits ARE rather pricey, usually ~$25 each compared to $7 (aluminum) to $15 (PMAGs) for .223 mags.
The conversion kit will pay for itself in ammo savings fairly quickly. 1K of .223 is ~$300. 1K of .22lr is ~$50. The kit and 4-5 good mags for it cost ~$250. After that first 1k rounds, the kit has paid for itself. The only downside to the kits is the limited range of the .22lr round, which realistically is ~75yds with bulk high-velocity ammo. I can shoot a 6" plate at 100yds with my conversion all day long... That being said I was fortunate enough to win one of CMMG's conversions as a shoot a few months back, I would buy one in a heart beat after having used it. I have had a couple friends go out and buy them since just because of the cost savings. Takes ~3minutes to convert from 5.56 to .22lr and you can shoot all day without worrying about the cost of ammo, and its handy for teaching newer shooters (moving from a bolt gun to a semi-auto) since its allot quieter and there is virtually no recoil. Also, a huge +1 to getting your C&R if for no other reason than the discounts, I think mine has paid for itself 10 times over in the last year, and I still have 2 more years to go
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I would also highly recommend a .22 conversion kit. You can have alot of fun with a little money with one, then just drop the .556 bolt back in when you want to shoot the big boys again. Also very good to sight in at 25 yards before you use your .556 to fine tune at longer yardages. Just my opinion. EXCELLENT advice. I see the conversion kits sell for cheap in the EE all the time, but new ones aren't that expensive either. However, the mags for the conversion kits ARE rather pricey, usually ~$25 each compared to $7 (aluminum) to $15 (PMAGs) for .223 mags.
The conversion kit will pay for itself in ammo savings fairly quickly. 1K of .223 is ~$300. 1K of .22lr is ~$50. The kit and 4-5 good mags for it cost ~$250. After that first 1k rounds, the kit has paid for itself. The only downside to the kits is the limited range of the .22lr round, which realistically is ~75yds with bulk high-velocity ammo. I liked it so much I bought a S&W 15-22 and a CMMG dedicated upper. I think I got the B-R-D .
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Wow... I stopped by CMMG and they had their BB guns marked up considerably. So, I drove down the road to Partriot Supply in Ashland. They have a class to build your own rifle. It is a basic rifle. I will know how to build one afterwards. And will have about $650 in it. I bought a Spikes Lower to start off.
Question - Their kit build comes with a 16" 1/9 twist chrome lined barrel. I noticed several comments regarding 1/7 twist. I understand in 3 Gun there is a target out to 300 yards. Any recommendations. I am not looking to win anything, but eventually I would like to shoot the course and compete a little. (Just have fun mostly.) Most likely it won't be this year. Barrel length and twist recommended? If this works out as I hope, I will be able to trouble shoot any problems I might have without professional help. |
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Wow... I stopped by CMMG and they had their BB guns marked up considerably. So, I drove down the road to Partriot Supply in Ashland. They have a class to build your own rifle. It is a basic rifle. I will know how to build one afterwards. And will have about $650 in it. I bought a Spikes Lower to start off. Question - Their kit build comes with a 16" 1/9 twist chrome lined barrel. I noticed several comments regarding 1/7 twist. I understand in 3 Gun there is a target out to 300 yards. Any recommendations. I am not looking to win anything, but eventually I would like to shoot the course and compete a little. (Just have fun mostly.) Most likely it won't be this year. Barrel length and twist recommended? If this works out as I hope, I will be able to trouble shoot any problems I might have without professional help. I don't claim to be an expert but for the average 3 gun match a decent 16" 1/9 is more than enough. I prefer a 1/7 because it stabilizes heavier bullets a bit better but the vast majority of surplus 55gr or 62gr (which is what I shoot in 3gun because I am cheap) will do just fine in a 1/9 barrel. Remember though 55gr out of a 1/7 is fine most of the time but anything lighter and you will have issues. The smallest target i have shot in a match was a 6" plate at 100yd, the furthest was a silhouette at around 275-300, there are smaller and further, but they are not the rule. |