[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Henges Shooting Range (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/1/2010 6:57:45 AM EDT
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Just to let everyone know, if they ever went there. The Henges Shooting Range will be open for business October 13, and they will be open extended hours until Nov 12.
Here is a pic of what it will look like looking downrange 
and here is a pic of what it looks like from the back and above the range 
I have some other pics during construction and whatnot, I'll post them when I get a chance. |
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Sure does look different! I gave up on public ranges though. Life is too short to spend it shooting with some self appointed expert looking over your shoulder.
I know that they have to run that place with the most idiotic, room temperature IQ bubba in mind, but I'm perfectly capable of being safe and not destroying the range without a range nazi blaring at me over a loudspeaker. The best session I ever had there was when I was the only one on the range. They basically just let me run the place, I just waved at the booth whenever I wanted a ceasefire. I pay for a private range now. Well worth the money. |
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I'm going to have to come up with a new pic that depicts "IN BEFORE THE MDC RANGE NAZI COMPLAINTS"
I have been to several MDC ranges and have never had a problem. I don't always need to double tap a target, the places are clean and you don't have to worry about 'gangstas' rollin up on ya. Sure private ranges have some advantages, but you pay for it. For 6 bucks me and my kids can shoot and have a good time. And an MDC range is the perfect place for that. |
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Looks nice and clean... Its not required, but sometimes, I do love having a roof over me when shooting.... Speaking of roofs, Is the Roof and Floor all made of concrete? Looks like it would echo like crazy and be ricochet city... It's designed to keep all bullets in the range |
| They are steel pillars, and they are covered with this stuff made by Range Systems called Ballistic Rubber. It is this very dense rubber that is 'supposed' to prevent bullets bouncing off of the steel columns. The steel columns are holding up prestressed concrete baffles that are 11" thick 6000 psi concrete. The range floor is 5000 psi concrete, and the bullet trap is a giant Action Target bullet trap, that contains all the lead in a decceleration chamber and then the bullet fragments are collected in buckets and then recycled. |
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They are steel pillars, and they are covered with this stuff made by Range Systems called Ballistic Rubber. It is this very dense rubber that is 'supposed' to prevent bullets bouncing off of the steel columns. The steel columns are holding up prestressed concrete baffles that are 11" thick 6000 psi concrete. The range floor is 5000 psi concrete, and the bullet trap is a giant Action Target bullet trap, that contains all the lead in a decceleration chamber and then the bullet fragments are collected in buckets and then recycled. So do you work for range or one of the contractors who built it. Bonus points how much did the heaviest. Precast panel weight |
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Quoted: I'm going to have to come up with a new pic that depicts "IN BEFORE THE MDC RANGE NAZI COMPLAINTS" I have been to several MDC ranges and have never had a problem. I don't always need to double tap a target, the places are clean and you don't have to worry about 'gangstas' rollin up on ya. Sure private ranges have some advantages, but you pay for it. For 6 bucks me and my kids can shoot and have a good time. And an MDC range is the perfect place for that. at $3 per hour it would cost me more than the $150 annual membership i pay for my dues at arpc. plus i can take all three of my kids and they can shoot at their own bench under my membership. rifle and pistol ranges. skeet and trap. bow trail. cowboy town. combat pit. heated and cooled clubhouse and bathrooms. 99% of the time i drive up and park 10 feet from the bench i shoot from and never see more than 5-10 people the whole time i'm there. and the gangstas are ok as long as they are paying members with a card for the automated gate..... oh, did i mention that the ranges are covered so i can shoot in the rain if i want. more power to ya, before i got edumacated i used to drag my guns and my kids to henges. if it's busy you get to hang around with your gear at the benches waiting for the range officers to kick some poor soul out of his cubicle before he is finished so that you can get your time in the sun. of the many times i have been to henges there was never a time when the blaring voice over the pa system did not call someone out for his ignorance of the uber tight rules. not to mention the annoying fire/cease fire commands. for those that only shoot once in a blue moon it is the economical choice you are stuck with. however, if you are putting any amount of lead downrange, then why bother when there are better opportunities out there. |
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Full retard. I generally have no complaint with Conservation Department spending, but that right there ticks me off. Plus it sets a precedent that pretty well sucks. At first I thought the same thing. Then, I figured this probably isn't a bad thing for the MDC to spend all that jack on. In years to come, the pressure from the anti's, greenies, cum guzzlers, etc. to close down all firing ranges which cannot contain, and easily clean up, like this one seems capable of. Maybe I'm wrong about that though... |
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Full retard. I generally have no complaint with Conservation Department spending, but that right there ticks me off. Plus it sets a precedent that pretty well sucks. +1 Hey, I don't make policy decisions, I just design what they ask me to design. If you don't like how they spend the money, talk to the commissioners. They have public meetings every few months all over the state. In this particular case, however, I-44 is approximately 1 mile downrange from the range. A good riccochet and a bullet could hit a car and then you want to talk about crazy shooting laws being enacted-watch out. There is more and more liability associated with shooting ranges every day, and in order to keep some of the ones that are near population centers, these kinds of things are going to have to happen-at least that's what they keep telling me. 
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Full retard. I generally have no complaint with Conservation Department spending, but that right there ticks me off. Plus it sets a precedent that pretty well sucks. +1 Hey, I don't make policy decisions, I just design what they ask me to design. If you don't like how they spend the money, talk to the commissioners. They have public meetings every few months all over the state. In this particular case, however, I-44 is approximately 1 mile downrange from the range. A good riccochet and a bullet could hit a car and then you want to talk about crazy shooting laws being enacted-watch out. There is more and more liability associated with shooting ranges every day, and in order to keep some of the ones that are near population centers, these kinds of things are going to have to happen-at least that's what they keep telling me. Guess which direction the range should have been pointed. |
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Full retard. I generally have no complaint with Conservation Department spending, but that right there ticks me off. Plus it sets a precedent that pretty well sucks. +1 Hey, I don't make policy decisions, I just design what they ask me to design. If you don't like how they spend the money, talk to the commissioners. They have public meetings every few months all over the state. In this particular case, however, I-44 is approximately 1 mile downrange from the range. A good riccochet and a bullet could hit a car and then you want to talk about crazy shooting laws being enacted-watch out. There is more and more liability associated with shooting ranges every day, and in order to keep some of the ones that are near population centers, these kinds of things are going to have to happen-at least that's what they keep telling me. Guess which direction the range should have been pointed. I don't disagree with that, but you have to deal with what you have got at the present time, not worry about what happened 20 years ago, can't change that now. |
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I understand and the comment was not directed towards you. I shoot there often, I just feel it's a little extreme in the expenditure. They could have reoriented the direction of fire for less than what they spent (a guess). I kind of liked the range being "open" , too. I know you are just doing what they tell you and you did a great job from what I can tell by the pics. In general, the state govt. spends just like the Fed govt. "if you don't use all the money in the budget, you won't get it next year!" Drives me nuts.
ETA: it's Sat the 16th and I just returned from shooting at Henges. I have to say it's pretty nice and surprisingly, it was not crowded. They let me and the daughter shoot for 2 hrs free! Yeah, they are strict and you have the time limit issue, but overall, it was nice. I have to say, that one of the Range Warden's told me thay spent $2,000,000 on the renovation. That's pretty pricey. But overall, it was a nice experience. It was more open then the pics lead you to believe. |
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I understand and the comment was not directed towards you. I shoot there often, I just feel it's a little extreme in the expenditure. They could have reoriented the direction of fire for less than what they spent (a guess). I kind of liked the range being "open" , too. I know you are just doing what they tell you and you did a great job from what I can tell by the pics. In general, the state govt. spends just like the Fed govt. "if you don't use all the money in the budget, you won't get it next year!" Drives me nuts. ETA: it's Sat the 16th and I just returned from shooting at Henges. I have to say it's pretty nice and surprisingly, it was not crowded. They let me and the daughter shoot for 2 hrs free! Yeah, they are strict and you have the time limit issue, but overall, it was nice. I have to say, that one of the Range Warden's told me thay spent $2,000,000 on the renovation. That's pretty pricey. But overall, it was a nice experience. It was more open then the pics lead you to believe. Nope, he is wrong, I am signing the payments to the contractor, so I know how much it cost. It was 1.65M, which is still damn pricey. Actually to reorient the range would have been more expensive, we looked at that. There are a whole lot of things that would have had to been done to reorient the range (move the observation booth building, dig out a HUGE chunk of the hill, reclimate the existing range area, etc..) not to mention it is far easier to put a range right back on the spot where one was before. Also there are a LOT of maintenance costs associated with the way the old range was set up, we had to work on it every week replacing baffle boards, and grading insde the range, and all of the runoff from the backstop berm. This new range is essentially (hopefully) maintenace free, a company comes once a month and picks up the buckets of lead from the bullet trap and hauls them off and they pay us for that. 
I am glad you enjoyed it, and even more glad you took your daughter shooting there. The grand opening is on October 29. They tell me it is very loud there now, what were your impressions of that? |
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The problem with government today is that they go big on everything. For 1.65 million they could have turned it around facing away from the highway used dirt berms and saved a shit load of money. No need for all the latest technology. Dirt, dirt, dirt. When the earthen backstop wears down you pile on more DIRT. It's like all the fancy schools, city halls, firehouses, police headquarters, etc. They go all out and have big time architect firms design them and then use expensive materials to finish them when all they needed was a big metal building. The problem is that we all get the bill in the end. Missouri has a total debt of 21 BILLION DOLLARS, what's another 1.65 million..... When the tanglement of government funds and pork are out of the picture and you really have to know exactly where your money is going this is what a range looks like. Spartan but totally effective, kind of like the way MDC and National Forest camp grounds are, or were.       |
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Quoted: Quoted: Full retard. I generally have no complaint with Conservation Department spending, but that right there ticks me off. Plus it sets a precedent that pretty well sucks. +1 +2 But hey, at least this time I get to see where my tax dollars are being spent, and I approve! |
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The problem with government today is that they go big on everything. For 1.65 million they could have turned it around facing away from the highway used dirt berms and saved a shit load of money. No need for all the latest technology. Dirt, dirt, dirt. When the earthen backstop wears down you pile on more DIRT. It's like all the fancy schools, city halls, firehouses, police headquarters, etc. They go all out and have big time architect firms design them and then use expensive materials to finish them when all they needed was a big metal building. The problem is that we all get the bill in the end. Missouri has a total debt of 21 BILLION DOLLARS, what's another 1.65 million.....
When the tanglement of government funds and pork are out of the picture and you really have to know exactly where your money is going this is what a range looks like. Spartan but totally effective, kind of like the way MDC and National Forest camp grounds are, or were. Reading is fundamental. Like I said, we already looked at the total cost of realigning the range, and everything EVERYTHING that goes with it. It is not just a simple matter of adjusting some dirt berms. There is a whole lot more to it than that. Additionally, we spent anywhere from 75 to 100K a year on all of the maintenance of that range, this new range has a projected life of at least 20 years and there is not anywhere near the mainentance costs (~10K) a year. So worst case scenario you are saving 65 K a year at 20 years is 1.3 million dollars saved. Yes that is not enough to pay for the range, but you add that with the cost of realigning the range (~2M) and that is a hell of a saving. That is the big problem with joe public, all they see is what is right in front of them. Believe me, EVERY project that is even submitted to our division for design by wildlife, fisheries, forestry or outreach and educaction has to be proven to be needed and an asset to the public. And then when it does get to us in design, we have to go through and give it a real life big boy engineering cost/benefit analysis before design is even begun. Then it goes to the commission for their approval. Only then do we start the design and construction of something. So before you go accusing someone you don't even know of rolling out the pork barrel maybe you should stop and use the organ between your ears for a second. I don't get one extra dime if they build it, move it or don't do anything at all. And as far as the state of Missouri being in debt, that may or may not be correct, but MDC NEVER operates under a debt, and our money is seperate from the state's budget. There has been a reduction of personnel here of about 15% and several projects that were approved and had the go ahead to build were pulled because there was not enough money in the coffers for them. |
| On a lighter note, I have been there since the remodel its nice, but........................ITS LOUD. Funny thing is when i took my wife out there to shoot trap, as soon as she got out of the car, somebody shot somthing big off and she jump back in the car for a second. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The problem with government today is that they go big on everything. For 1.65 million they could have turned it around facing away from the highway used dirt berms and saved a shit load of money. No need for all the latest technology. Dirt, dirt, dirt. When the earthen backstop wears down you pile on more DIRT. It's like all the fancy schools, city halls, firehouses, police headquarters, etc. They go all out and have big time architect firms design them and then use expensive materials to finish them when all they needed was a big metal building. The problem is that we all get the bill in the end. Missouri has a total debt of 21 BILLION DOLLARS, what's another 1.65 million..... When the tanglement of government funds and pork are out of the picture and you really have to know exactly where your money is going this is what a range looks like. Spartan but totally effective, kind of like the way MDC and National Forest camp grounds are, or were. Reading is fundamental. Like I said, we already looked at the total cost of realigning the range, and everything EVERYTHING that goes with it. It is not just a simple matter of adjusting some dirt berms. There is a whole lot more to it than that. Additionally, we spent anywhere from 75 to 100K a year on all of the maintenance of that range, this new range has a projected life of at least 20 years and there is not anywhere near the mainentance costs (~10K) a year. So worst case scenario you are saving 65 K a year at 20 years is 1.3 million dollars saved. Yes that is not enough to pay for the range, but you add that with the cost of realigning the range (~2M) and that is a hell of a saving. That is the big problem with joe public, all they see is what is right in front of them. Believe me, EVERY project that is even submitted to our division for design by wildlife, fisheries, forestry or outreach and educaction has to be proven to be needed and an asset to the public. And then when it does get to us in design, we have to go through and give it a real life big boy engineering cost/benefit analysis before design is even begun. Then it goes to the commission for their approval. Only then do we start the design and construction of something. So before you go accusing someone you don't even know of rolling out the pork barrel maybe you should stop and use the organ between your ears for a second. I don't get one extra dime if they build it, move it or don't do anything at all. And as far as the state of Missouri being in debt, that may or may not be correct, but MDC NEVER operates under a debt, and our money is seperate from the state's budget. There has been a reduction of personnel here of about 15% and several projects that were approved and had the go ahead to build were pulled because there was not enough money in the coffers for them. You are correct reading is fundamental, so is comprehension. WE ARE BROKE! this for 1.65 mil when the old one was really to much too begin with, and actually something like this is all we needed to begin with....  and yes, dirt is all we need. yearly maintenence = push more dirt on pile. |
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Well I guess there is no pleasing some people.
This was the best least expensive alternative. And the money that MDC uses does not come from the general fund. Also if you care so much about these things then go to the commission meetings, like I said before. How many commission meetings have you been to? My guess is none. 
The same people bitching about this remodel would be the first ones screaming bloody murder if a bullet left the old range and hit a car on 44. "WHY DIDN'T THEY FIX THIS WHEN THEY KNEW THERE WAS A PROBLEM?" Think of the children! |
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If I recall, the MDC operates on the 1/8th of one percent sales tax. I've also heard that MO legislators always want to get their paws on that money. I can't say that is 100% correct, but it sure does sound like politics at it's finest. You are partly right. Mdc also gets money from permits and funds from NFWS from federal taxes that we all pay on sporting items like ammo and fishing supplies. |
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Quoted: Well I guess there is no pleasing some people. This was the best least expensive alternative. And the money that MDC uses does not come from the general fund. Also if you care so much about these things then go to the commission meetings, like I said before. How many commission meetings have you been to? My guess is none. The same people bitching about this remodel would be the first ones screaming bloody murder if a bullet left the old range and hit a car on 44. "WHY DIDN'T THEY FIX THIS WHEN THEY KNEW THERE WAS A PROBLEM?" Think of the children! Of course I haven't been to the commission meeting, it would be meaningless. I would say, "Stop spending our money, if you have so much left over after collecting the permit fees and so on, then pay down on the states monsterous debt our it's uncounted future liabilities to it's citizens." MDC would say, "You sir are a crackpot!". Yes, I would much rather spend money on this than about a million other things. The bottom line is that we shouldn't be spending any money on anything period. The state is broke. Our debt is financed. Our future liabilities are impossible to meet. The people that are elected are responsible to the citizens of the state of Missouri. We have an economy problem that means less taxes and less hunting and fishing permits. We should not be expanding, we should be retracting. Since you mentioned a bullet striking a car on I44 as hypothetical I assume that it hasn't happened. I'm sure some where along the line this was political. Some one wanted this done. Some politicians brothers cousin owns a company that did some of your contract work. No matter what you're talking points are about why we needed the range upgraded there is one reason that stands above everything why it shouldn't have been, MONEY. Maintenence costs are at the bottom of the list. When you have spent all your money and your credit cards are maxed the last thing you do is go out and buy a 52" TV for your family room because it uses less electric than your old one. Listen, I'm all for the shooting sports. I shoot all of the time. A public range is a really good thing, not so much for me, I can afford to buy a membership and I shoot alot, but for those that don't or can't it is a big positive. If we had a surplus and times were good I more than likely would not have posted any of this. Even though MDC is seperate (and that is a really good thing that I was unaware of) instead of spending big money on something like this when we have a disproportionate number of people out of work, why not lower the hunting/fishing/camping fees? Believe it or not it may actually work out better and stimulate the economy. Lower fees might put some more people in the woods and on boats and in the campgrounds. We all know what happens then, we buy shit for our trip.....gas, food, lures, ammo, etc. etc. I'm not trying to bust your balls. The range looks cool, but the bottom line here is we are spending money we don't actually have. |
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Quoted: The range looks cool, but the bottom line here is we are spending money we don't actually have.
Well actually the mandate that passed assures the MDC of some income. But that amount will fluctuate from year to year. So it has to rein its spending like the rest of us because it can't just pass more taxes or rob from peter to pay paul like the fed. When they try to raise fees they get berated. As I feel they should. You want to change the MDC keep/get politicos in office that will appoint the right types to the commission. I want too be able to shoot a damn human shaped target at the place I have helped fund. And not find ranges closing and big bloated fancy community learning centers built that stay all but empty all but one or two days a month. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I guess they could have used the money for some anti-gun programs. Or more inner-city basketball programs.  Frankly, I'll take the range.  This is exactly why we are screwed. If we don't get it they will. This is the reasoning that has created the monster government we have. Above poster stated that MDC funds are seperate from general fund. No basketball courts with MDC money. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess they could have used the money for some anti-gun programs. Or more inner-city basketball programs. Frankly, I'll take the range. This is exactly why we are screwed. If we don't get it they will. This is the reasoning that has created the monster government we have. Above poster stated that MDC funds are seperate from general fund. No basketball courts with MDC money. My point is, if "they" are going to take my tax money (is it really paying if they take it?) and spend it on stuff, I would rather see it spent on this kind of stuff than useless programs such as inner-city B-ball leagues. |
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$1.6 million for a rebuild and we can't even get the MDC to talk about building a pitiful 6 lane unmanned range for us here in the southern part of the state. All we ask for was three 50 yard lanes and 3 one hundred yard lanes.
But the MDC can piss off $411,000.00 to put 150 elk on the ground. This is their own figures from their website. And this is not counting all the money spent so far rebuilding habitat for them such as tearing up warm season grass plots and planting cool season grasses. The $995,000.00 that they had to pay to their former agent Kyle Carroll from a lawsuit would have gone a long way in building a range. Great leadership. |
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I didn't think it was possible for a range day to be unenjoyable. Then I went to MDC ranges (Busch and Henges). No thanks. I would've lost my interest in guns a long time ago had that been the only place I had to shoot. +1 I really don't mean to bitch but I went to Heneges with my brother over the weekend. I think I got 7-8 shots out of my .308 and he got about 7-10 out of his contender. It's like a constant rush to try and get reloaded and get a few shots off before they call a cease fire. I swear it's like every 5 minutes. And it was busy as hell we had to wait almost an hour and then we could only stay an hour. Kinda pointless. I've complained about the Indian Creek unmanned range, but I'll gladly take my chances down there then go back to Heneges. and to top it off, one of the range Nazi's reached in and readjusted my pistol in the rack.....WTF....it wasn't going anywhere and was perfectly fine where it was. 
anyway it sucked....Sorry but the city folks can have that range. 
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I always thought MDC ranges are mainly setup for sighting in and for new shooters to learn, not really for SAS commandos. Hell topgun limits their members time if they are busy.
MDC kind of has alot of of liability issues, which is why the tight rules. I've seen ppl on private ranges that scared the crap out of me to the point of leaving. Every time I've went out there the personal were pleasant, I took my wife out there to shoot trap for the first time and John at henges gave her some pointers and she started busting birds. |
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Quoted: I always thought MDC ranges are mainly setup for sighting in and for new shooters to learn, not really for SAS commandos. Hell topgun limits their members time if they are busy. MDC kind of has alot of of liability issues, which is why the tight rules. I've seen ppl on private ranges that scared the crap out of me to the point of leaving. Every time I've went out there the personal were pleasant, I took my wife out there to shoot trap for the first time and John at henges gave her some pointers and she started busting birds. Maybe you haven't been there enough. I used to go all the time when i was young, broke, and uneducated on other shooting ranges. I would have to say that 90% of my experiences there were not good. The pistol touching incident mentioned above would have put me over the top. On one trip I carried my rifle to the booth pointing in the air, I was instructed by a passing ranger officer to point it to the ground. A couple visits later I carried my rifle to the booth pointing to the ground and was yelled at over the PA system that I should carry the rifle pointing into the air. WTF. Now I carry my rifle about 10 feet from my trunk to the table..... |
| The monies used to build and refurbish public ranges administered by the Missouri Department of Conservation comes from a portion of the Pittman Robinson monies that are paid in federal exise tax on ammunition and firearms that is built into the price of the items when you buy them. A portion of this money is available to the states for ranges only, so if MDC did not rebuild this range with that money, it could have gone to another state. This is a good example of getting the monies that Missourians have already paid, back to us. A project as elaberate at this would be easy to fund through this money than, lets say a small shooting site without all the safety issues. Missouri rates really high on the number of public ranges available in the state through these programs. I want to see more of all types. Keep up the good work. |
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Quoted: $1.6 million for a rebuild and we can't even get the MDC to talk about building a pitiful 6 lane unmanned range for us here in the southern part of the state. All we ask for was three 50 yard lanes and 3 one hundred yard lanes. But the MDC can piss off $411,000.00 to put 150 elk on the ground. This is their own figures from their website. And this is not counting all the money spent so far rebuilding habitat for them such as tearing up warm season grass plots and planting cool season grasses. The $995,000.00 that they had to pay to their former agent Kyle Carroll from a lawsuit would have gone a long way in building a range. Great leadership. Sounds to me like you need a better lobbyist.  |